Mola Mola Tambaqui vs T+A DAC 8 DSD - mini review

[Gavin1977]

Thought I would post this collection of notes as a mini-review.

 

Please see my profile for full details of my system so you understand the basis of comparison - note that the T+A DAC 8 DSD that I own has been modified by Taiko Audio.  It includes solid copper upper and lower plates (the upper plate has a small slither of panzerholz wood inserted), and new feet which also have panzerholz wood pucks.  This gives it a slight advantage in terms of EMI shielding and vibration control over the stock model.

 

T+A DAC 8 DSD has had numerous really good reviews when running DSD from HQPlayer... but the trouble is that people haven't really compared it to the current 'cream of the crop'.  This lead me to investigate.  Previous DACs that I have owned are Chord Hugo ->Naim DAC V1 -> Hugo 2 -> Hugo TT then the T+A DAC 8 DSD.  Each one a noticeable step up from the former.  I have also owned and used other DAC's outside of my main system.

 

Straight off the bat both DACs sound completely right tonally and are not veiled or coloured.  They both benefit from a good warm up time & being left on standby.  Most DACs seem to benefit from this, probably due to internal clocks settling down.  The top panel gets nice and enjoyably warm to the touch on the Tamaqui.

 

The Tambaqui is as format agnostic as you could ever get.  Should come as no surprise given how the Tambaqui works, with PCM and DSD playing equally well.  The T+A however needs DSD to sound it's best, from recollection I would say that PCM via the T+A sounds of a similar level of reproduction as a Hugo TT.  Very impressive that the Tambaqui retrieves the information it does from PCM, whereas T+A needs DSD and HQPlayer to reach the same level. 

 

Mola Mola Tambaqui removes that last bit of timing smear.  It has extremely well honed timing.  This is the most impressive thing about the Mola Mola compared to the T+A and it is the main difference in my opinion.  Cymbals, drums everything stops and starts on a heartbeat and I think this is part of the reason why  micro details are easier to hear.  However don’t think that it’s a ‘night and day’ difference (John Darko loves that expression), it’s not - in other words don’t go about expecting to discover new things that you’ve never heard before in your favourite music.  The Tamaqui just presents them with somewhat better timing compared to the T+A.  My impression is also that listener fatigue is further reduced with the Tamaqui as a result of this exceptional timing - if I was an audio engineer I would prefer it over the T+A.  You just don’t have to work hard at all to dissect music.

 

Both the T+A and Tambaqui have ‘presence’... things sound more realistic than other lesser DAC’s I’ve heard.  To be fair my experience with other DACs is somewhat  limited, but I can tell you that the Chord Hugo 2 or TT don't have this same ‘Presence’ (I have never heard a Chord Dave in case you were wondering).  Seems to take something special / high end to deliver this.  The concept of ’presence’ is something that is not easy to understand until you have actually heard what a DAC of this caliber can do.  One theory I have is that the quality of the analogue conversion stage from the DAC to the amplifiers may play a role in providing ‘Presence’ compared to lesser DAC’s with cheaper/less optimised volume control built in.  I would be very interested to hear how, say, a Chord qutest combined with a high quality preamp would perform... might narrow the gap a bit, but I suspect not quite upto the level we're talking about here.

 

Both DACs have a well proportioned and vast soundstage compared to lower end DACs.  Initially you would think that the T+A had the larger soundstage in all dimensions, however that's not completely right. Music is more tightly focused towards the middle/the listener on the Mola Mola.  This is actually because the Tambaqui has better timing and as a result produces a more defined soundstage image with excellent delineation between instruments.  So it's actually just as wide/tall, but instruments are more narrowly focused within that soundstage.  With the T+A the soundstage envelops you more because the imaging is just a smidge more diffuse, the Mola Mola places the soundstage in front of you because it has better timing.  Both very enjoyable, but different enough for the differences to be discernible.

 

Since sending upscaled DSD to Mola Mola seemed to make no appreciable difference, there was no real reason to use HQPlayer embedded, so I swapped over to Euphony. With my older Hugo TT Euphony (playing Tidal via Stylus) brought out the best with PCM based dac’s.  How did this compare with the inbuilt Roon endpoint?  Not much in it to be honest.  I would actually give a slight nod to the inbuilt Roon endpoint in the Tambaqui.  Removing all the extra components of a music server, and even a Sablon 2020 USB, seems to add an extra little dose of vividity and clarity.  What... Roon actually sounds good I here you say!  I would be perfectly happy with the inbuilt Roon endpoint in the Mola Mola.

 

The value proposition....

 

To quote John Darko (who’s comparisons I have found to be very reliable) from his Mola Mola Tambaqui review:

 

“Apple MacBook Pro’s internal DAC at 4/10, the Schiit Modi 3 at 5/10, the AudioQuest DragonFly Red at 6/10, the Chord Qutest at 7/10 (where I think diminishing returns really begin to accelerate), the Denafrips Terminator at 7.5/10 or the Mola Mola Tambaqui at 8/10.”

 

T+A DAC 8 DSD fed 256 DSD from a good quality server running HQPlayer... sound quality must be at least 7.5.  Mind you the T+A has a certain swagger and swing to it’s presentation.  Maybe I should add an extra point.... ?  I think you get the picture - very close, both the Tambaqui and the T+A DAC 8 DSD are extremely well engineered products.

 

Mola Mola is an engineering triumph (no surprise there from Bruno) - one complete great sounding DAC/Roon endpoint in a small & tidy package.

T+A DAC 8 DSD is very close sonically, but needs time and expenditure building a music server able to run HQPlayer sufficiently well - the T+A offers better value if you are prepared to do this and put up with extra cables/boxes.

 

As well as John Darko's review, my impressions also seem to match Stereophiles present fall 2020 'Reference Recommended' list.  T+A DAC 8 DSD remaining in the A* category - it provides a further reference point of comparison since nobody can ever hope to hear all of the DAC's available.  I may consider listening to the Benchmark DAC3 at some point.

 

[Gavin1977]

1 hour ago, fds said:

Oh and did you use both direct to power amp? Not fully clear to me from your audio system description? ... and maybe an Innuos Phoenix could improve the timing of the DAC8DSD even further???

I use JCAT USB XE, so no Phoenix needed.  Both DAC's where attached directly to power amps (but they have to go through ASP in my case, see my system description in my profile)

 

You can hear the subtle differences in feeding the Tambaqui pcm or dsd.  Classical differences that people report across any dac that they can hear between the two formats, such as PCM have more drive and DSD having a better flow.

 

Using different upsampling settings in HQ Player does slightly change the character, for example if you like the sound of Sinc-m or XTR, it will impart that slight flavour to it.  But you don't really extract more detail.  I assessed this very briefly and moved on.  The Tambaqui extracts so much detail from pcm that I don't think you can gain anything much from HQPlayer.  Besides all of my files are pcm anyway, I only use HQPlayer to get the same effect on the T+A.

 

Your mileage may vary.

[Gavin1977]

 

47 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

I use JCAT USB XE, so no Phoenix needed.  Both DAC's where attached directly to power amps (but they have to go through ASP in my case, see my system description in my profile)

One thing that might benefit my setup though is powering the JCAT USB XE in my music server with an MPAudio, Sean Jacobs or Paul Hynes.  I’m only using a Allo Nirvana SMPS at the moment, so there is scope for improvement there.  This is something on my to do list.

[Gavin1977]

2 hours ago, fds said:

Many thanks Gavin for this excellent review.  Highly appreciated. Would be great to get similarly explicit reports on comparisons of the DAC8DSD to the Holo Audio May or to Chord Dave. In fact, I have plans to demo the DAC8DSD in comparison to Chord TT2 soon and maybe even the May. Let’s see.

 

May I ask about your HQP settings? Did you also try DSD512? In my early experiences with HQP, sinc-L, sinc-M and closed-form-16M are timing champions. If you have not used them already, they may narrow the gap further. Also wondering whether you had upsampled PCM before sending it to the Tambaqui ... if so, you might want to share these settings as well.

 

Also DAVE I expect to come with better timing than the DAC8DSD. Already with my Mojo I experience excellent timing but not the presence/physicality that my Metric Halo LIO-8 offers.

 

Still cannot believe that T+A was not able to bring regular XLR outputs to their new “flagship” headphone DAC HA 200 ... I guess this will be postponed to the successor of the DAC8DSD. Still this will lead to siginificantly less demand on the 200 I believe.

 

Thanks again for this great review stressing that value-for-money seems to be strong in the DAC8DSD. :-)

Post your feedback on the Hugo TT2 here - would be interesting.

[Gavin1977]

Thanks - on my radar to try using volume control within HQPlayer.  But I must admit I’m a fan of hardware volume control.

[Gavin1977]

You could view Tambaqui as a successor.  But I have some other tweaks to try - I think PSU upgrades to my music server and JCAT USB XE Card till help with better timing and imaging through the T+A DAC 8 DSD.  As I allude in my review, in my setup the T+A DAC 8 DSD is competitive.

[Gavin1977]

By the way, I haven't tried many DAC's that have a built in Roon end-point, but what the Mola Mola does with Roon is amazing - I have not been able to recreate it using any of my other equipment (past or present).

 

I've just tried a comparison on my T+A DAC using local CD rips:

 

Config A: Minimserver on Synology server -> Linn Kazoo -> HQPlayer embedded

Config B: Roon Core on Synology Server -> Linn Kazoo->HQPlayer embedded

 

Config A is better, noise floor on Config B is higher and the music is feels more compressed.  It's sufficient so that I would choose not to use Roon based on this.

 

This doesn't happen on the Mola Mola - Roon sounds excellent.

[Gavin1977]

I think you're spot on the money - one thing that concerns me about the DAC3 is that it's soundstage is reported as being potentially smaller than some of the 'uber' DACs.  Can you describe more what that HPA4/LA4 preamp adds (especially in terms of soundstage)?

 

I also want to try the Okto Research DAC.

[Gavin1977]

Great feedback @yyz and @eternaloptimist!

 

Thing about the T+A DAC 8 DSD it that the DSD section does scale with source... all the way up to a Taiko Audio Extreme.

 

I would really appreciate your further feedback once your new speakers and repaired T+A return.

 

Really to get the best out of T+A DAC 8 you need HQPlayer upsampling...

[Gavin1977]

9 minutes ago, Stereophilus said:

Benchmark make great gear at a great price.  I think the HPA4 is a superb buy.  I haven’t heard it back to back against my Makua, but I doubt it would be much different.

 

The DAC3B is tonally quite neutral and very detailed.  When compared on the Makua I didn’t think it reproduced depth layering or soundstage to the same degree as the internal Makua DAC, but this did include an extra set of interconnects for the DAC3B to connect to Makua.  Whether this difference is apparent to you or important to you depends on the rest of your system and the music you listen to.  For instance, if you use headphones for listening, the DAC3B is probably all you will need.

Seems to be common feedback on soundstage and the DAC3B... (you may have guessed that I'm a soundstage nut!).  Would be interesting what the HPA4 adds to the mix.  I really must try one at some point.

 

By the way, Chord DAVE and Innuos Phoenix on demo here at the moment - I will post back comparisons in the next few days.

 

For anyone else who has heard this combination, the T+A DAC 8 DSD has an equivalent soundstage to the DAVE, but the T+A has a much more 'forward' presentation, everything is presented is a much larger/richer fashion.  Does anyone have the better terminology to describe the sound of the T+A?  I find it difficult to write down the differences I hear and the idea of 'forward' sounding is likely a key difference.  I'm not aware of any videos comparing laid-back vs forward sounding dacs.

[Gavin1977]

Feedback on Chord DAVE will have to wait, but I can give feedback on these:

 

Innuos Phoenix vs JCAT USB XE:  Phoenix provides increased soundstage depth and there is a lovely delicacy to the tone which is introduced.  However, I am powering my JCAT USB XE with an Allo Nirvana SMPS...  I strongly suspect that powering the JCAT XE with a better quality linear would have the same effect.  So case closed on that one.

 

@eternaloptimist any feedback on Chord Hugo TT2 and a T+A DAC8 DSD?  My understanding is that with the Chord TT2 the mids, including vocals, are bit more forward compared to the DAVE - this might mean that the voicing of the TT2 is closer to the T+A than what the Chord DAVE is.

[Gavin1977]

4 hours ago, eternaloptimist said:

@Gavin1977. Sorry, has been crazy busy here.... haven't had a chance to do a direct comparison of the Hugo TT2 and T+A DAC8 DSD. Will likely set up in the new year when the rest of the family are away for a week!

 

No worries - same here, still got the DAVE around my house and have only listened to 2 hours of music in the week.  I'll be interested in how warm the TT2 sounds compared to the T+A and also if the TT2 has the same forward presence.

 

Two weeks off at Christmas 😀

[Gavin1977]

Feedback on the DAVE - to cut the story short I still prefer the T+A DAC 8 DSD.

• Imaging & soundstage are about the same that the T+A
• DAVE fed via USB (Sablon 2020 and JCAT USB XE) - sound lacked body compared to the T+A.  Feed the DAVE SPDIF however is it gains slightly more body and warmth and become similar sounding.  So DAVE's USB implementation is fussy about RF.
• Detail retrieval is perhaps a little higher on the DAVE when fed 44.1 PCM, vs T+A fed Sinc-M DSD at 256.  Piano and classical music are the DAVEs  finest genres (this ties in with other reviewers opinions).
• Mechanical sounding... a number of people have reported this back regarding the DAVE.  I couldn't hear it at first, and I don't think it's obvious on every track.  However listen to Adele 'Skyfall' and it's obvious that the DAVE does sound quite mechanical, the T+A with the same track sounds much more natural. 

 

Mola Mola Tamaqui is still the best of them all so far, it just takes what the T+A does well and improves on it in terms of imaging, but its price being so far over and above the T+A DAC 8 DSD means that I'm in no rush to switch.

[Gavin1977]

On 12/27/2020 at 4:58 AM, Ben-M said:

This is very interesting reading, I have had an eye on the Tambaqui for a while but they're so uncommon where I live that I've never tried to find one for a listen. I guess there are a lot more DAC 8 DSDs in the field, but they're still a niche DAC and not FOTM anymore. This was great to hear your feedback on the two, much appreciated for sharing.

 

Is there any chance you can take more pictures of the copper mods or just the whole DAC 8 DSD? I have one too and that first picture looks pretty great.

Hi Ben,

 

Taiko Audio no longer offer this upgrade, as they sold out.  However, what they installed for me is shown in the attached photo.  The top and bottom alu case covers are replaced with solid copper which absorbs electromagnetic radiation.  The bottom plate has the same vibration reducing pattern as Taiko's daiza isolation platform, the upper place has a square insert of panzerholz.  You also get three new anti-vibration feet with the kit which include tiny panzerholz inserts.

 

Thanks

[Gavin1977]

I also think that the RocknaAudio Wavelight is a potentially good option 

[Gavin1977]

My second mini review on the quest for a new DAC:

 

 

[Gavin1977]

5 hours ago, Jason foy said:

The t+a looks amazing please could you give me details of who did this work with copper 

Taiko Audio - but like I say above they don’t offer this upgrade anymore.

[Gavin1977]

I fully agree with your findings - my conclusions still stand on the Mola Mola vs T+A if you run the T+A with fixed volume.  I ran it like that towards the end of my review.  It does improve things in the order that you suggest, removing a veil from the music - but the traits of the two DACs remain the same.

[Gavin1977]

12 minutes ago, adelphi said:

@Gavin:

Did you find Mola Mola sound better with preamp ?

 

This combination I didn't try unfortunately, but I'm not sure there would be much if anything to gain.