USB optical cable : stunning IF powered & implemented correctly

[tgb]

Hello,

I know there are a few topics talking about usb optical cable, but I create a new one because :

 

1. I've been using a Corning 3.Optical since Apr.'15, power with a power bank. It did its job : quite good transmitter over long distance (I have the 10m version) between a do-everthing laptop & my Singxer SU-1 (modded), then connected thru coax to a FDA (Classé 2200i)

 

2. due to change in my system, just for testing purpose (for kidding to be frank), I changed the way I power it : I replaced the 5VDC power bank by a much cleaner PS : small transformer (5.4VAC output / 30VA) + AC/DC module MD from MPaudio (based on the LT3045 regulators).

 

=> SQ when powered nicely : stunning.

no harshness, detailed, precise etc... I won't tell the standard blablabla vs improvement.

 

To be (a bit) provocative, I would say this cable, when implemented correctly, is a game changer.

because :

- amazing price/perf ratio (although cable = 150eur + price of my tiny PS : 200eur => 350eur all included)

- it acts as a amazing quality long distance transmitter (forget about copper cable, they can't do that)

- it acts as a isolator, using fiber. I was in the process to change my audio server from NUC to SuperMicro motherboard when I tested that trick => clear now that putting money on the server is not relevant (in a 2nd step ok, but not in 1st step as it is the commom way). I use my do-everything laptop as source now !!!! And it's much better than a dedicated audio server ! LOL !

- overall, it acts as a RECLOCKER <= HERE IS THE KEY : as in reclocking business PS is key, when you change the PS to this cable the SQ is completly different, complete other league. You can't reclock properly with a power bank, but with a AC/DC module based on LT3045 you can do it. This exemple shows it perfectly.

 

What is interesting in this test is : it shows which part of the digital audio path is key vs SQ.

This critical part seems to be : the data reclocking after the server.

This example shows it.

The Grimm MU-1 shows it (see product review & interviews of the designers).

When network is the wire (not USB), the modded Buffalo with PinkFaun clock shows it.

 

Limits of my tests & remarks :

I've tested the Corning 3.Optical. It seems it is very very well built vs "clock" circuit. It may be different with the other products on the market (Monoprice https://www.amazon.fr/Monoprice-Slimrun-3-0-Type-extension-optique/dp/B01MYNCH2K & Cosemi https://www.amazon.com/COSEMI-Active-Optical-Support-transfers/dp/B07ZPDHVXS/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=COSEMI%2BCâble%2BUSB&qid=1603694650&sr=8-1&th=1)

 

Here is a bit summarized my tiny discovery.

 

For more info you can have a look at the thread I posted last week on the French hifi forum => http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-18535.html 

I'm talking to myself overthere as we are not many to own such cables :-) Thus, I created this topic herewith, hoping that I could meet other owners of fiber USB cable :-)

 

BRgds

[matthias]

51 minutes ago, tgb said:

Hello,

I know there are a few topics talking about usb optical cable, but I create a new one because :

 

1. I've been using a Corning 3.Optical since Apr.'15, power with a power bank. It did its job : quite good transmitter over long distance (I have the 10m version) between a do-everthing laptop & my Singxer SU-1 (modded), then connected thru coax to a FDA (Classé 2200i)

 

2. due to change in my system, just for testing purpose (for kidding to be frank), I changed the way I power it : I replaced the 5VDC power bank by a much cleaner PS : small transformer (5.4VAC output / 30VA) + AC/DC module MD from MPaudio (based on the LT3045 regulators).

 

=> SQ when powered nicely : stunning.

no harshness, detailed, precise etc... I won't tell the standard blablabla vs improvement.

 

To be (a bit) provocative, I would say this cable, when implemented correctly, is a game changer.

because :

- amazing price/perf ratio (although cable = 150eur + price of my tiny PS : 200eur => 350eur all included)

- it acts as a amazing quality long distance transmitter (forget about copper cable, they can't do that)

- it acts as a isolator, using fiber. I was in the process to change my audio server from NUC to SuperMicro motherboard when I tested that trick => clear now that putting money on the server is not relevant (in a 2nd step ok, but not in 1st step as it is the commom way). I use my do-everything laptop as source now !!!! And it's much better than a dedicated audio server ! LOL !

- overall, it acts as a RECLOCKER <= HERE IS THE KEY : as in reclocking business PS is key, when you change the PS to this cable the SQ is completly different, complete other league. You can't reclock properly with a power bank, but with a AC/DC module based on LT3045 you can do it. This exemple shows it perfectly.

 

What is interesting in this test is : it shows which part of the digital audio path is key vs SQ.

This critical part seems to be : the data reclocking after the server.

This example shows it.

The Grimm MU-1 shows it (see product review & interviews of the designers).

When network is the wire (not USB), the modded Buffalo with PinkFaun clock shows it.

 

Limits of my tests & remarks :

I've tested the Corning 3.Optical. It seems it is very very well built vs "clock" circuit. It may be different with the other products on the market (Monoprice https://www.amazon.fr/Monoprice-Slimrun-3-0-Type-extension-optique/dp/B01MYNCH2K & Cosemi https://www.amazon.com/COSEMI-Active-Optical-Support-transfers/dp/B07ZPDHVXS/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=COSEMI%2BCâble%2BUSB&qid=1603694650&sr=8-1&th=1)

 

Here is a bit summarized my tiny discovery.

 

For more info you can have a look at the thread I posted last week on the French hifi forum => http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-18535.html 

I'm talking to myself overthere as we are not many to own such cables :-) Thus, I created this topic herewith, hoping that I could meet other owners of fiber USB cable :-)

 

BRgds

 

Can you please shed some light on how you do exactly connect the Corning with your devices as the Corning is only an USB extender with male-A to female-A connectors.

Thanks

 

Matt

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, tgb said:

(forget about copper cable, they can't do that)

- it acts as a isolator, using fiber. 

 

Actually, there is a copper cable in the Corning for USB ground...

 

This was discovered years ago on this forum and it's easy to do a continuity test of the cable to verify yourself.

 

Even the Corning product site shows you there is copper there...

 

 

https://www.corning.com/microsites/coc/ocbc/Documents/CNT-075-AEN.pdf

[asdf1000]

1 hour ago, tgb said:

- it acts as a amazing quality long distance transmitter (forget about copper cable, they can't do that)

 

I agree with this. It's a great USB extension cable.

 

Very long and very thin.

 

I have both Corning and the Monoprice Slimrun optical cables and I found the Monoprice Slimrun much more reliable for several years now.

 

 

 

[tgb]

4 hours ago, matthias said:

Can you please shed some light on how you do exactly connect the Corning with your devices as the Corning is only an USB extender with male-A to female-A connectors.

Hi Matthias,

the info is the link above (bottom of my 1st post => in the topic on the french forum :-) )

Use a Google Translate or other stuff is you need so.

If your translator get stuck vs some idioms I used, please say it & I'll do a proper summary here.

 

Here is the post & photo to answer the 1st part of your question : connexion between PC & Corning (cutting the 5VDC from the PC & external power) => http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-18535-post-410056.html#pid410056

I'll post the answer to the 2nd part of your question tonight : Corning output to hifi gear (modded Singxer SU-1 in my case).

 

@asdf1000 thanks for your feedback vs the Monoprice !

I realize that the Corning is not available anymore (can't find a 10m ; only 30m at >400eur... too much).

Very good to know that the Monoprice (still on the market) is a good product.

I found this other cable => https://www.amazon.com/COSEMI-Optical-transfers-Supports-simultaneously/dp/B07ZPDHVXS/ ; customer feedbacks are OK ; seems to be a good challenger too.

 

Regarding the other cable on the market, I trend is not to USB-A output but more to USB-C.

The point is that USB input of hifi gears require USB-A (or -B), but not -C.

A "solution" would be to buy a cable with USB-C output and add a adapter USB-C to USB-A. To me, this is a wrong solution because to convert USB-C to USB-A, these adapters use a tiny PCB. This conversion is not about re-connecting the wires from USB-C the way a USB-A prefers. Thus I guess these adapter would bring some noise.

Just a guess. To be confirmed of course.

Rgds

[matthias]

Thanks,

the big disadvantage of all these cables is that they work as USB extenders and not as USB cables. So you end up with a row of several adapters. Every adapter is reducing the SQ.

This USB-C cable appears to be better:

https://www.sure-fire.com.tw/products/78/USB-C Active Optical Cable

Apple MBPs have USB-C output and more and more DACs have USB-C input.

 

Matt

[matthias]

18 minutes ago, matthias said:

double post

 

[tgb]

Hi Matthias,

Queuing adapters like this is not the issue.

1st : because I need it... to power the Corning externaly.

2nd : let's assume I loose "2points of SQ" due to these adapters, but I gain "125points of SQ" thanks to the nice current feeding the Corning => overall gain = 125-2=123points of SQ. Not bad... and the 2points lost I don't bother.

 

More & more DAC with USB-C input... well... honestly I don't know but it you look at very nice stuff like Innuos streamer / server / reclocker for instance : none have USB-C plug.

Market will push to USB-C but not sure it si relavant in audio : heavier bitrate thus more noise ? why bother with >5Gb/s capacity when USB2.0 is large enough for audio (and much less noisy I guess).

Rgds

[tgb]

FIY, I posted on the French forum some photo on the inside of the Corning 3.Optical.

I wrote with proper French, without slang or idioms, so Google translate should translate easily :-)

=> http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-18535-post-413881.html#pid413881

 

Quick sum up :

I opened it to see what's inside the downstream plug (hifi device side).

My point was to see how it works & if possible to improve its PS, by bypassing the internal regulators & power it using an external PS (module AC/DC MPaudio).

 

As someone said on another thread some time ago : the wires in the cable are used to power the downstream plug for conversion fiber>usb.

The length of the cable exceed the requirement of a tiny 5VDC.

Thus, there is a boost converter in the upstream plug to get a voltage of 16VDC, high enough to run to the other plug.

Then, in the downstream plug, you have down-regulation from 16VDC (15.88VDC measured) to 2 voltages : 5VDC & 3.3VDC.

 

Then, my point would be to improve the current (5VDC & 3.3VDC) by external PS. But will it work afterwards ?... I'm wondering... Maybe I'll have a try, maybe not...

Rgds

[ThenewGearPPK]

So just connect Monoprice SlimRun USB 3.0 Type-A Extension Cable or the COSEMI Active Optical AOC USB 3.2 cable to your regular USB cable connected to a Singxer SU-1 & you'll get a benefit?

[tgb]

2 hours ago, ThenewGearPPK said:

So just connect Monoprice SlimRun USB 3.0 Type-A Extension Cable or the COSEMI Active Optical AOC USB 3.2 cable to your regular USB cable connected to a Singxer SU-1 & you'll get a benefit?

Hi,

no. You don't connect these optical cables from source to a "regular usb cable" & then to hifi gear.

These cables replace "regular cable".

 

The trick is that you need to power it "properly" => see my post here : http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-18535-post-410056.html#pid410056

I rewrite here in English to make it clearer :

1. transformer, from MPaudio. 30VA, 5.4VAC output

2. MPaudio "MD" module AC/DC, based on LT3045 to get clean 5VDC

3 & 4 are cheap USB adapters

5 is an adapter from Audiophonics that cut the 5VDC from the laptop & "inject" the clean 5VDC from the MD module

6 is a cheap adapter

7 is the Corning (PC-side plug)

 

On Singxer SU-1, I have the same kind of stuff (I'll post the photo later on).

 

The trick is simple : the power supply.

On this photo you have a USB charger (bottom-right) : plug it to the Audiophonics adapter to power the Corning and sound is dead harsh.

Quite crazy... this difference in SQ only due to the PS.

 

But in this trick : LT3045 based PS is the basic.

MPaudio module & transfo are not dead expensive (200eur). The SQ given by this PS is good => price/perf ratio is dead big.

Using a cheap & basic LPS at 80-100eur instead of LT3045 based PS would be a bad investment, lower SQ, lower price/perf ratio.

 

Hope it's clearer.

Rgds

 

PS : don't be surprised by this strange photo : when I don't need to go out with my laptop, it is on a small (dusty...) shelf and look at the wall because it is in the room next to my main room (where audio gear is). The laptop is linked to screens/keyboard/mouse in the main room, thanks to extenders (USB & displayPorts) (cable thru small hole in the wall to the main room). This way, from the main room, this basic laptop acts as a "working station", thus without any noise. Dead cool config, I recommend :-)

[seeteeyou]

External power doesn't require any adapaters, maybe it's somewhat easier to try this one instead?

 

https://sklep.audiocolor.pl/produkt/fibbr-alpha-hifi-usb-a-b/

https://hometheaterhifi.com/blogs/fibbr-alpha-usb-audio-cable-review/

 

About €175 in China

 

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=605879469650

[tgb]

Hi seeteeyou,

in my case with a Corning, I needed these adapters. No choice.

Thanks for the link to this cable. I didn't know that one.

Cool to know there are alternatives to corning/monoprice using that techno.

Rgds

[tgb]

Hi,

Just a guess.

I'm pretty sure that :

- the Fibbr Alpha Optical USB => https://sklep.audiocolor.pl/produkt/fibbr-alpha-hifi-usb-a-b-dlugosc-10-mb/ ; at 410eur for a 10m long cable (I'm in Europe & don't have friend in mainland China that could ship one to me at 1/2 price ! :-) )

- and the Monoprice Fibre Optic Slimrun => https://www.amazon.fr/Monoprice-Slimrun-3-0-Type-extension-optique/dp/B01MYNCH2K ; at 160eur this one 20m long ; Fibbr is the manufacturer, Monoprice has no factory, they just rebrand it.

are the "same" product.

 

By "same" product I mean : same USB-to-fiber conversion, & same fiber-to-USB conversion.

These are the processes that act to SQ. Same processes = same SQ.

 

The differences between these 2 cables are support processes that do not affect the SQ :

- in the Slimrun, you have boost converter in the upstream plug, & buck converter in the downstream plug (to higher voltage to 16VDC maybe like into the Corning)

In the Alpha : no boost / buck converters required. That's why the upstream plug is smaller.

- the remaining differences are "cosmetics".

The Alpha, because it targets audio customers, has external PS on the downstream plug + USB-B male plug. That's all.

 

For DIYers, and due to the big price difference between Slimrun & Alpha (1 to 3 ratio, roughly), I think the best is  :

- buy a Slimrun 

- open the downstream plug

- cut the electrical wires providing the 16VDC from the upstream plug (thus : inactivation of boost & buck converters, thus the plugs will remain cold, not "hot" anymore)

- provide 3.3 & 5VDC from external power to the PCB. I guess it is like in the Corning (see link above, to my Corning "unboxing" => http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-18535-post-413881.html#pid413881 ), we have 2 voltages inside, 3.3 & 5VDC, I guess that by soldiering external PS to the right capacitors (see pic below) 2 external PS will do the job. If PS is based to LT3045 regs, clear that the current will be cleaner than the one provided by the buck converter.

 

I think I'll buy a Slimrun to test that mod, to compare a modded Slimrun to a standard Corning.

Rgds

[cat6man]

@tbg

 

very interested in your diy to the slimrun cable.

please keep us advised of how your experiment goes (along with the great pictures).

 

thx

[tgb]

Thanks cat6man,

Finally I bought a Monoprice Slimrun 20m yesteday. Hope the inside is interesting :-)

Delivery is scheduled on 12th Nov.

SQ with the Corning too too nice, and as it is not produced anymore I need a backup :-)

We'll see 1st if they sound equal (unmodiffied of course).

 

FYI, off-topic but still related to USB stream, please find here a modification I made today on my Singxer SU-1 => http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-16709-post-415421.html#pid415421

The SU-1 is the USB-spdif interface downstream the Corning.

As I mention in the post, the idea of this mod is not mine but from elan120 that posted it in a very cool audio forum : AudiophileStyle ! of course ! :-)

(hope Google Translate can deal with my blabla :-) ; just ask if not)

Completly unexpected to get that SQ from a do-everything laptop.

Rgds

[cat6man]

@tgb

 

anything to report on the slimrun cable?

[tgb]

Hello cat6man,

yes, I can report something.... I screwed up when I tried to check voltage on the downstream plug => slim run is fine... but.... now it can deal with USB3 but not anymore with USB2. Crazy stupid stuff isn't it !?

 

Sorry for the delay vs my mistake => you can find my feedback here => http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-18535-post-422698.html#pid422698

as you can read, I was fed up with this quite crazy thing : short-cut => then => 6Gb/s usb stream, the cable can do it, but not a basic usb2 stream at 10Mb/s...

 

too late to give a full answer (3AM here), I'll give more details & feedback tomorrow if the info into the link is not clear enough (sorry, that was a pa* in the a* that stuff... in case Google may have diff to translate).

 

Anyway :

to me, no way back.

simply because (as you can think about), having the home-computer (no audio tweak inside) as a multimedia source, this is too easy to use on day-to-day basis and bring high SQ to music but to video / tv thru web / music streaming thru web etc...

=> keep in min d that SQ is key point & was enhance with proper PS to these cables.

 

Next step to go futher :

I just bought 2 Corning cables. Nice price for 2nd hands

1 will be to back my current Corning

the 2nd for modding

 

Maybe some news by next weekend (parcel will live England to France... not far away)

Rgds

[CJH]

I plug my Slimrun from laptop into an Uptone IsoRegen to get added power isolation. Both are powered by MP Audio supplies. Works well. I compared this to using an Ultra Rendu (powered by MP Audio) and preferred the Slimrun. YMMV

CJH

[tgb]

Cool CJH

And you left the ultraRendu & network based setup to use the laptop+slimrun ?

Interesting to put the IsoRegen after the SlimRun, big diff vs w/o IsoRegen ?

Rgds

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Hi,

 

When you say "USB optical cable enables a new hifi paradigm", what exactly have you compared this to in order to reach that conclusion ?

 

thanks

[CJH]

tgb: 

Yes. I had used a Micro Rendu + Iso Regen for at least 3 years and was dead set on getting either an Ultra Rendu ($875) or Optical Rendu ($1295) when funds allowed. In the mean time, I read about the Slimrun ($135) on Whatsthebestforum and thought I'd give it a try--with good results. A friend with an expensive music system bought an Aries G2 to replace his Ultra Rendu, so he let me borrow the UR for a couple months. The Ultra + Iso Regen was better than the Micro + Iso Regen, but in my setup, not as good as the direct connection from laptop to Topping D70 using the Slimrun + IsoRegen with outboard power supply. Yes, I did try comparisons without the Iso Regen--the difference is not huge, but certainly apparent on the first song played. No switching back and forth necessary.  I use HQplayer and upsample to either 705PCM or 256 DSD.

CJH

[juanitox]

 

Christmas time is here ...  😀

[cat6man]

On 11/14/2020 at 9:02 PM, tgb said:

Hello cat6man,

yes, I can report something.... I screwed up when I tried to check voltage on the downstream plug => slim run is fine... but.... now it can deal with USB3 but not anymore with USB2. Crazy stupid stuff isn't it !?

 

Sorry for the delay vs my mistake => you can find my feedback here => http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-18535-post-422698.html#pid422698

as you can read, I was fed up with this quite crazy thing : short-cut => then => 6Gb/s usb stream, the cable can do it, but not a basic usb2 stream at 10Mb/s...

 

too late to give a full answer (3AM here), I'll give more details & feedback tomorrow if the info into the link is not clear enough (sorry, that was a pa* in the a* that stuff... in case Google may have diff to translate).

 

Anyway :

to me, no way back.

simply because (as you can think about), having the home-computer (no audio tweak inside) as a multimedia source, this is too easy to use on day-to-day basis and bring high SQ to music but to video / tv thru web / music streaming thru web etc...

=> keep in min d that SQ is key point & was enhance with proper PS to these cables.

 

Next step to go futher :

I just bought 2 Corning cables. Nice price for 2nd hands

1 will be to back my current Corning

the 2nd for modding

 

Maybe some news by next weekend (parcel will live England to France... not far away)

Rgds

 

merci for the link to the other forum.

i'm confused by the 12v reference.  my slimrun cable inserts 5v at the upstream connector, so i don't understand the 12v to 5v buck converter issue?  is this not the slimrun cable you are working with on the other forum?

[Superdad]

19 minutes ago, cat6man said:

 

merci for the link to the other forum.

i'm confused by the 12v reference.  my slimrun cable inserts 5v at the upstream connector, so i don't understand the 12v to 5v buck converter issue?  is this not the slimrun cable you are working with on the other forum?

The SlimRun cable uses a switching DC-DC boost converter at the upstream end to convert 5V (either just from the computer VBUS or from an external 5V supply you might attach) to 12V to drive the long pair of thin copper wires that run alongside the optical cable.  In the downstream end there is another DC-DC switching converter (buck) that turns that 12V back into 5V—for both the VBUS and for the USB3>USB2 translator chip (which has its own internal 5V to 3.3/1.1V regulators).

Nothing “optimized for audio” here...