Sound Quality of Boot Drives - Impact of Quality of Power supply to SQ.

[kelvinwsy]

I  just finished a marathon testing session on storage mediums impact on SQ.

1. Intel X25-E Sata II SSD

2.Samsung 860 Sata III SSD

3.Toshiba 7200rpm HDD 3.5 inch internal 

4.Samsung 970 Pro plus NVME

5.Intel Optane 64gb

 

Test PC was 1. Lenovo Ideacentre Y900 Z190MB 6700k Hqplayer 4.0  

2. Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Ultra/ Intel 10700k Hqplayer 4.0 

 

The findings were largely driven by external power supply using quality 

5v LT3045 LPSU with 2A 

 

The NVME was installed on a USB holder plugged into a USB slot on a PCIE 3.0 card with an external power supplied from a  12V DC LT3045 LPS  with 1.5A

 

The Toshiba HDD was powered in the Lenovo PC using the ATX PSU with a Elfidelity SSD/HDD filter just as a baseline for SQ. The music files in the Lenovo PC are also stored in this HDD.

 

The Intel Optane COULD NOT Boot from the same arrangement USB/PCIE USB 3.0 hookup as the Samsung 970 Pro Plus. 

So it was used in the NVME MB slot first in the Lenovo Z190 MB and the Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Ultra 

The Music Files in the Gigabye Aorus Intel 10700k PC was stored in a Samsung 860 Evo 1 TB SSD.

 

All the drives including the Toshiba HDD were installed with WinServer 2019 Core stripped of most processes (usually down to 35 and threads about 500)

HQPlayer 4.0 4.60version is common.

 

The best SQ in Top to Lowest is:

1. Samsung 860 Evo 250gb

2.lntel X25 64gb

3.Samsung 970 Pro Plus in PCIe USB3.0 mode

4.Intel Optane NVME on MB slot

5.Samsung 970 Pro Plus in MB slot

6.Toshiba HDD in the Lenovo 6700K PC

 

The SQ differences were in the Color of the Sound presentation(not flat and lifeless), more dynamic, better stereo separation and depth. Not extreme differences but Audible using the same songs, Headphone mode (Abyss Phi/CC - Dana Lazuli Ultra) direct to 2 x 30watt Class A Monoblock Headphone amps from the speaker Taps using a resistor Lpad setup.

 

There was more difference to in the SQ due to the speed of data transfer == The Toshiba HDD could be found to be lacking as the System probably had more CPU/Data Exchanges as this was also the Boot Drive as well as the Music Drive. 

 

I am NOT saying the SQ differences are Absolute and Universal in all setups. No---- my conclusion is:

 

1. Powering the SSD MUST be done on as high quality a PSU as possible. I went from ATX to external 5v chinese LPSU to the Light Harmonic LPSU. The real jump is when I used 5v LT3045 LPSUs.

2.NVME is not so good for SQ - the remedy should be High Quality MB power - a LPSU with ATX capability is needed

3.NVME powered through PCIE/USB external power hookup is far better but still loses out to the winner

4. Music files MUST be separated from the Bootdrive

5. Data Transfer rates matter for Upsampling Music software such as HQPlayer 4.0

6. USB3.1 drive (Toshiba) was tested OK but was affected by Noise in the USB

    Controller. This fared a lot better plugged into the PCIE USB3.0 drive 

7. USB2.0 drives are so slow that HQPlayer stutters at the ASDM7EC/DSD256 setting

 

AND the winner is :>>

 

Samsung 860 Evo powered by LT 3045 PSU.

 

Please note that the above is only in my setup and to my ears. As always YMMV,

 

Thanks

Kelvin

[sandyk]

40 minutes ago, kelvinwsy said:

The best SQ in Top to Lowest is:

1. Samsung 860 Evo 250gb

Kelvinwsy 

This is also what I am using in my Desktop PC.

In my case I am using the internal SMPS +12V supply regulated down to +5V using an LM317T voltage regulator ,then a John Linsley Hood PSU add-on  which has <4uV noise and a simulated capacitance of 2FARAD to feed it ultra low noise +5V and improve isolation between the SSDs and other components.

The main advantage of this is that I am using the 0 volts (earth )reference from the PC itself.

I am powering both my OS SSD and Music SSD by this method from  a dual version of this regulator mounted internally to the bottom of the case.

 I would recommend that you also do as one and a half (Gary) and myself have done in this thread as it resulted in further obvious SQ gains, with a marked improvement in channel separation and considerably less distortion.

 It won't cost much to do either.😉

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/60381-hdd-to-case-bonding-uptick-in-sq/?tab=comments#comment-1084599

Alex

[kelvinwsy]

Oh I am 😵 totally up to date on this Earthing thing. Went poking around with my Multimeter and star earthed the PC case, PCIE brackets, AIO casing, PSU casing to my 
SSD's - And I have one additional secret weapon,

Here we go, the Power conditioner that has "claimed 150mv residual DC supression capacity 

Here is the link - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000094663118.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5ea166eatYMuQY&algo_pvid=4eda4b04-8093-4b43-bb50-6d693724b09c&algo_expid=4eda4b04-8093-4b43-bb50-6d693724b09c-1&btsid=0bb0623c16034427186241179e349f&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

 

It is quite effective and I bring the earth connection back to the wall plug earth. 

 

Really impressive blackness and reduction of noise, On some tracks I can follow the beat of the castanets.... Backing vocals, Skin noise of the drums being hit --- ust 20 dollars of 18ga silver coated copper wire and 10ga copper main earth link wire.

All my LPSU's are now on this including the DAC,

The other on the same 20Amp dedicated circuit are the 2 ATX PSU's - One for the PC the other for all the fans and peripherals I have taken off the MB to power separately. I just did hooked up my 2 spare Acoustic Revive RTP-2 Ultimate. They color the some of analogue gear iike Preamp/AMPS and T/T

I put my ATX PSU connected to the mains through 2 units of Acoustic Revive RTP-2 ultra? - the RTP is 1000USD, Ha! the ATX is 100USD. And then a EMI/RFI filter then the wall socket. What a difference!!!  The isolation of the Switching ATX PSU's is now so much improved. 

I have my 2 monoblock 30Watt HP amps on a 30amp circuit through a Shunyata Hydra 4 - oldie but still goodie, These drives my Abyss Phi /CC 

 

Happy Listening to all

THe 

The isolation of 

[sandyk]

9 hours ago, kelvinwsy said:

1. Powering the SSD MUST be done on as high quality a PSU as possible. I went from ATX to external 5v chinese LPSU to the Light Harmonic LPSU. The real jump is when I used 5v LT3045 LPSUs.

With the external LPSU +5V powering the OS SSD, did you also try  connecting  the 0 volts (earth ) of this supply to chassis where it entered the PC ?

 Even when using an internal +12V to +5V regulator then the JLH section ,  I noted a further improvement by connecting the 0 volts incoming , to chassis right at the input terminals to the voltage regulator of the PCB in the photo.

 Unless your LT4045s have an additional much larger value NON Low ESR electrolytic capacitor in parallel at it's output, you will have a much lower output Z at >100kHz resulting in increased HF detail, but more than likely more HF detailed (artificial) than it should be, with a very wide soundstage. but with perhaps  a loss of some low end natural warmth. 

 Note also that the manufacturers of the LT3045 make no claims in their Data sheets as to their suitability for HiFi Audio.

They are more designed for use as ultra low noise power for instrumentation. (Yes, I do use a LT3045 for the +3.3V supply for the input I.C. (DIR9001) in my DIY DAC, but it's input is via a +5V JLH PSU add-on as well)

 

A PSU should have as low and flat an output impedance from almost DC to 1MHZ.

Alex C will tell you that too.😉

Most LT3045 PSU implementations do not, they have a lower output Z at 100kHz and higher, but it helps if you have a large value filter capacitor right at their input like when used after a bridge rectifier. 

 

[kelvinwsy]

OK what size of capacitors and parallel across the input terminals. What about the output terminals.

Note that my LT3045 PSU's are configured for Hifi and comes with capacitors and lithium hydride batteries for 1 unit, battery /super capacitor unit for the 2nd and a 3rd is transformer/mains powered 12v 3xLT3045 units.

Yes the same observations I have to your comments. Enhanced sparkingly highs, thumping deep resonant bass, slightly reduced midrange richness. But the thickness in the midrange is now cleared up. The SQ achieved with latest round of tweaks really suits my taste. And the sound stage goes extreme left, right and Depth goes to the BACK of the sound stage.

 

The SQ impact has been further enhanced with a PC fan pcb I found on aliexpress which only takes the 2 poles of the 4 pin fan connector ie PWM and RPM signals from the Motherboard connectors. But NO 12V and Grd. THis is then generated by the fan pcb which takes either molex 4 pin or SATA external power. One special channel of the 10 channels gives full speed and pwm mode control over the connector fans.

 

I have taken All my Fans, AIO Cooler Radiator fans off the MB power and changed all onto the external power through this PC Fan pcb thingey!

 

Everything works, fan noise is lowered by reduced loading, and through the use of half speed resistors fitted in line.

 

1 last to transfer to external power will be the AIO pump which runs on 12v 3 wire connected to MB Pump power outlet. I dont think I will do this. Any power failure or setup problem will mean a CPU of melted silicon - Too risky.

 

I guess a silent case will be the next upgrade. However using HQPlayer 4.0 and turbo mode for the ASDM7EC /DSD256 calls for about 120 -135 watts TDP for the CPU. I dont think the HDplexes and Streamcons can handle this heat output. Even Turemetal can do this without elevated temperatures. In the tropics where I live, running the Air conditioning just to remove heat from a silent fanless PC is really not quite environmental responsible.

 

Happy Listening

[seeteeyou]

On 10/23/2020 at 9:26 AM, kelvinwsy said:

The NVME was installed on a USB holder plugged into a USB slot on a PCIE 3.0 card with an external power supplied from a  12V DC LT3045 LPS  with 1.5A

 

NVMe drives usually require 3.3V to operate while 2.5" SATA SSDs need 5V respectively, just wondering if those switching regulators for 12V → 5V (SATA) or 12V → 5V → 3.3V (NVMe) were hindering the overall performance since they could have affected that quality 12V DC output of LT3045 LPS.

 

Other than these products from JCAT, did anyone find more affordable options that could accept 5V DC externally?

 

https://jcat.eu/product/usb-card-femto-audiophile-usb-audio-output/

https://jcat.eu/product/usb-card-xe/

 

---

 

FYI - 16GB Optane with Orico M2PJM-C3 enclosure (Realtek RTL9210B) was confirmed to be bootable via USB

 

https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=902&start=25#p50532

https://pcper.com/2020/07/orico-usb-c-nvme-ssd-aluminum-enclosure-review/

https://www.facebook.com/ORICOOfficial/posts/thanks-to-the-realtek-rtl9210b-chipset-the-orico-m2pjm-c3-accepts-both-nvme-and-/2407340576227091

[sandyk]

20 hours ago, kelvinwsy said:

OK what size of capacitors and parallel across the input terminals. What about the output terminals.

Note that my LT3045 PSU's are configured for Hifi and comes with capacitors and lithium hydride batteries for 1 unit, battery /super capacitor unit for the 2nd and a 3rd is transformer/mains powered 12v 3xLT3045 units.

Yes the same observations I have to your comments. Enhanced sparkingly highs, thumping deep resonant bass, slightly reduced midrange richness. But the thickness in the midrange is now cleared up. 

You could try something like 2,200uF to 4,700uF normal electrolytic capacitors of a higher voltage rating than the input voltage in parallel with the LT 3045 input to see if that improves tonal balance . Something like a non Low ESR 100uF in parallel at the output could be tried as well  if that doesn't do enough. 

[kelvinwsy]

Thx just ordered low ESR 2200uf 25v, 3300uf 16v and 100uf 25v 

Gonna have a lot of fun trying them out in parallel over the input and output of the LT3045 unit

The 3rd unit I am using with 3xLT3045 is transformed driven, but i will trace circuit and try to find the dc input to the 3 LT3045 - failing which I will do the output parallel loading using the 100uf

 

Thx again

Kelvin

[sandyk]

13 minutes ago, kelvinwsy said:

Thx just ordered low ESR 2200uf 25v, 3300uf 16v and 100uf 25v 

Gonna have a lot of fun trying them out in parallel over the input and output of the LT3045 unit

The 3rd unit I am using with 3xLT3045 is transformed driven, but i will trace circuit and try to find the dc input to the 3 LT3045 - failing which I will do the output parallel loading using the 100uf

 

Thx again

Kelvin

OOPS!

I said normal 2,200uF to 4,700uF, not iow ESR types. 

 Fortunately, they are inexpensive, so you won't have lost much if they don't make enough difference.

[kelvinwsy]

Here are links to the 3 units I am using for the CA followers who find other bespoke LT3045 PSU's a bit too expensive for your budget.

 

1. LT 3045x 4 units - 2 amps - Lithium battery storage equipped - good for at least 3 hours session - Play while charging is OK too.

1. LT3045 x 4 units - I am using this to power the CLONES Audio SHAAR USB3.0 PCIE card I am using https://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/06/clones-audio-shaar-pcie-to-usb-new.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/0.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d70IDWG&orderId=8118970935622784&productId=1005001292434729

2. Battery powered unit 5 v for powering my Samsung 860EVO OS SSD - better than any 5v battery or LPSU i am using. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/0.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d70IDWG&orderId=8118970935622784&productId=1005001292434729

3. Transformer powered 3xLT3045 - 1.5amps - I use this to drive the Uptone Regen LPS 1.0 that go to the Isoregen. Way better than the ChiFi 12v LPSU i was using before.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000413421028.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d70IDWG

 

4. A new unit on shopping list after i decide 5v or 12 V output - 4 x LT3045 - 3 amp peak - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001288668538.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.14a33c00VYPhYe&mp=1

 

Happy Listening

[kelvinwsy]

No problem - putting in a new order for NON Low ESR 2200uf and 3300uf capacitors.

They are cheap anyway,

 

Order 16V 2200uf Normal Capacitors and 16V 4700uf types

Gonna have a lot of fun,

Thanks again Sandyk

I will report back to all interested