While My Guitar Gently Weeps

[57gold]

Just to be clear, stodgy is an adjective that does not imply overweight nor stocky, only staid, conservative, maybe dull...so no intent to implicate the chubby.   Glad you have a strong self image...wish I was gorgeous.

 

No English in my personal background, unless it came from the Norman and subsequent conquests of Ireland.  My children have significant English ancestry from their mother's side, descendants of the English Puritan settlers of New England, a stodgy and intolerant group of folks by today's standards responsible for the historical character of CT.

 

 

[Iving]

9 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Just to be clear, stodgy is an adjective that does not imply overweight nor stocky, only staid, conservative, maybe dull...so no intent to implicate the chubby.   Glad you have a strong self image...wish I was gorgeous.

 

No English in my personal background, unless it came from the Norman and subsequent conquests of Ireland.  My children have significant English ancestry from their mother's side, descendants of the English Puritan settlers of New England, a stodgy and intolerant group of folks by today's standards responsible for the historical character of CT.

 

I like that kind of education. Thank you

[Iving]

I like the bit at 4:43 where Tom Petty pretends Prince’s antics are run of the mill. I mean – that’s a thing we British do all the time. We refuse to be impressed with each other. At least publicly. So Tom Petty looks kinda “stiff upper lip” here. Is that stodgy?

 

I think Jeff Lynne looks stodgy in this clip. He’s from Birmingham by the way.

 

I don’t think Dhani looks stodgy. He’s enjoying himself. He doesn’t hide that he’s happy his buddy Prince is gonna do a great turn.

 

P.S. Anybody know where I can get “Ankle Deep” on CD without it blowing the baffles off of my speakers?

[Allan F]

On 5/16/2021 at 12:56 AM, hopkins said:

You incorrectly attributed the above comments to me. Don't know how that happened 

 

Mea culpa. My apologies to you. I have no idea how that happened either. Nevertheless, I would stand by my reply to the rubbish posted by 57gold if he had been playing guitar for 50+ years as I have (albeit not particularly well). 🙂 

[57gold]

Actually play very well, better than ever.  Quarantine's only positive I can think of.

 

Yes the stodgy Englishmen comments is hyperbolic...intentional rubbish.

 

The critique of Prince's solo versus EC's original version of solos and fills is accurate.  Not dissing Prince, he played to the audience and probably figured he couldn't top the original from a melodic perspective so he went a different direction.  

 

One of best concerts I have ever attended was Prince's stop at the Hollywood FL Hard Rock a few nights before his 2007 Super Bowl performance.  His band was super tight, made up of supremely talented players/singers and he was on fire.  Left the show a Prince believer; had purchased his some of his albums that to me featured great songs though were hampered by overdone arrangements/production and less than pretty sonics, common to many 1980s productions.  In person, as a performer and band leader, he was magnificent.  Antithesis of stodgy.

[Allan F]

1 hour ago, 57gold said:

The critique of Prince's solo versus EC's original version of solos and fills is accurate.  Not dissing Prince, he played to the audience and probably figured he couldn't top the original from a melodic perspective so he went a different direction. 

 

Bullfeathers! We are talking about two supremely talented guitar players with different styles. To reduce Prince's performance to showmanship and a collection of guitar techniques is facile and anything but "accurate".

[The Computer Audiophile]

It’s art. There is no objectively better or worst. It’s all in the ear of the listener. I’ll take Prince’s version over any other version. That’s just me. 

[Iving]

7 hours ago, Iving said:

I like the bit at 4:43 where Tom Petty pretends Prince’s antics are run of the mill.

 

Talking of Tom Petty’s responsivity to other players taking the lead on stage … I remember Bobfest 30th Anniv. 1992 as it happened. My memory is a a little hazy for those years for one reason and another! What I do know is that I had a VHS recording of the concert. Maybe I recorded it as it happened off TV. But I definitely had a VHS recording of the actual concert. And I played it to death. My Back Pages was a huge highlight. I was so disappointed when they issued the audio and video retail – because Bob Dylan’s verse [“In a soldier's stance, I aimed my hand at the mongrel dogs who teach …”] had been dubbed over! I had bought the double LP and refused to listen to it. I hated it. [Now I think about it - it was a digits thing too - sounded dreadful on the Linn Sondek I had then.] On another thread recently we’ve been talking about relationship  of accuracy and convincing. Well in my books only the original Bob vocal was convincing! I hated that he sold out and replaced what was perfectly OK.

 

The Bobfest My Back Pages performance still gives me goosebumps. Two things if I may. On My Back Pages see how generous Tom Petty is towards other players. I love how he is when Neil Young solos at 4:15. But the main thing is – I’ve always rated Eric’s solo in My Back Pages [starts 1:51] as a "Top 5". Against Prince’s in Gently Weeps - which must be 3 minutes or something - it’s only 30 secs. Must be a "less is more" thing. I think the guy doing the MC turn is George (G.E.) Smith. You can just catch him beaming his f*cking head off when Eric starts to solo. Steve Cropper is there too. You can see George Harrison the unassuming genius [bow tie!] behaving himself throughout [stodgy?] My Back Pages much, much more a moment in history than Gently Weeps - which is exciting – but nada on the goosebumps monitor.

 

I’m probably telling you what you already know. Or disagree with somehow! Doesn’t matter. We’re all friends here, right 😊.

 

I could have spent longer trying to find the original broadcast. I’m pretty sure that this one I’m posting has the Bob overdubbed vocal. Never mind.

 

 

[57gold]

Watched it again.  

 

Great guitar face, red hat, appearance out of the darkness and beaucoup guitaristic tricks - bends, pull offs, open string trills, fast pentatonic runs, a few spots with octaves on a gained out Boogie (or pedals and amp that get that screaming distorted tone), unrehearsed "falling" into the audience to an awaiting crew member...all show, based upon cliche "Rock Star" riffs.  

 

Chris liked the show and so did Dhani.  The playing fit the showman's goals. Great playing, not really, but it's OK if you dig it.

 

EC's solo break on the Bob tune is simple playing off a C major scale, the key of the tune...simple isn't bad.  Neil's was more original and raw, like Neil.

 

[Iving]

 

3 hours ago, 57gold said:

EC's solo break on the Bob tune is simple playing off a C major scale, the key of the tune...simple isn't bad.  Neil's was more original and raw, like Neil.

 

I guess my pov is that beauty is the Holy Grail in music, and that technics can only go so far in accounting for it. 

 

Also I hope to notice the beauty in people. I know what you mean about Neil. I'm a huge fan. Esp. when he's with Crazy Horse.

[57gold]

Yes, it's not what you play but how you play it.  

 

But then there are good players and there are great, inventive players.  Have to remember Pete Townsend, who thought he was great, until he saw Jimi in London and thought about giving up guitar playing.

 

For simplicity, listen to to Neil's original Cinnamon Girl solo.  One note D, the key center of the tune bent, twisted, plucked and massaged for an entire chorus (actually freaked out in Jr High when we learned the tune and figured this out, could it be just a D?).  Read later that Neil said that it wasn't just one note, they are all different based son how he played them.  And then have to love a guy with a catalog of @1,200 published tunes saying, "It's all one song."

 

In 2000 got tickets for CSN&Y for my birthday for whole family, wife in kids aged 12 and 10 in Tampa.  They were pumped to go to a rock concert, our home always has a half dozen guitars lying around and my son started learning to play.  My son and I went to the stage and met Neils guitar tech who was setting up, Larry Crag, who told us about Neil's rig (Tweed Deluxes with  6L6s vs 6V6, no transformer mods, and the Whizzer that controls the 4 knobs on the Deluxe with 4 presets). 

 

Told kids to watch for Neil getting into it doing his "man with a spear in his back dance" which is what Crosby referred to his jam dance as, which they loved doing.  Funniest part of show was when my 10 year old daughter turned to me during the Down by the River jam and asked, "Daaaad, is this song ever going to be over?"  Replied, "I hope not."

[Allan F]

15 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

It’s art. There is no objectively better or worst. It’s all in the ear of the listener. I’ll take Prince’s version over any other version. That’s just me. 

 

Agreed. And therefore one may certainly and subjectively prefer one version over another. But to belittle one version and describe it as nothing more than "guitaristic tricks" and "all show, based upon cliche 'Rock Star' riffs", is both unfair and inaccurate. It is the epitome of a pseudo-objective critique.

[The Computer Audiophile]

21 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

Agreed. And therefore one may certainly and subjectively prefer one version over another. But to belittle one version and describe it as nothing more than "guitaristic tricks" and "all show, based upon cliche 'Rock Star' riffs", is both unfair and inaccurate. It is the epitome of a pseudo-objective critique.

 

I'm trying to understand where others are coming from, when they say that, as I'm sure you are. I think there is definitely the aspect of what we all like, but there is also the aspect of the goal of the performer. I don't know Prince's goal with his performance, but I'd guess he nailed it. 

[Allan F]

29 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'm trying to understand where others are coming from, when they say that, as I'm sure you are.

 

It may be unkind, but I have difficulty coming up with an explanation apart from an attempt to impress others with their knowledge of the elements of guitar technique. If so, IMO it failed. 🙂

[57gold]

Yes, he nailed it.  It being the Prince show.

 

Explanation: Answered the question Chris asked, "why was the solo musically light".  My description is accurate.

 

What Clapton played on his friend's song in 1968 was groundbreaking playing and sonics.  Prince's performance at the 2016 RR HOF was a pentatonic shred, well delivered and executed.  Something folks have been doing for the last 50 years, well since Jimi and EC and...  

 

Exit stage before everyone else and guitar disappears into the heavens.   

[Allan F]

On 5/24/2021 at 2:00 PM, 57gold said:

Prince's performance at the 2016 RR HOF was a pentatonic shred, well delivered and executed.  Something folks have been doing for the last 50 years, well since Jimi and EC and... 

 

It's really too bad that you are unable to separate Prince's showmanship from his outstanding skill and talent, allowing your apparent distaste of the former to dictate your biased view of the latter.

[57gold]

22 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

It's really too bad that you are unable to separate Prince's showmanship from his outstanding skill and talent, allowing your apparent distaste of the former to dictate your biased view of the latter.

 

See below a quote from my earlier post, hardly someone who doesn't appreciate his talents, just thought the WMGGW outro solo was a musically light performance enrobed in the Price show.

 

One of best concerts I have ever attended was Prince's stop at the Hollywood FL Hard Rock a few nights before his 2007 Super Bowl performance.  His band was super tight, made up of supremely talented players/singers and he was on fire.  Left the show a Prince believer; had purchased his some of his albums that to me featured great songs though were hampered by overdone arrangements/production and less than pretty sonics, common to many 1980s productions.  In person, as a performer and band leader, he was magnificent.