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I'm sure most people have seen Prince's solo on this track from the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame performance. For some reason I'd forgotten this was also available as a lossless audio track and I just re-found it today on Tidal and Qobuz. 

 

Enjoy if you haven't already.

 

Qobuz - https://open.qobuz.com/album/0610583435122

Tidal - https://tidal.com/browse/album/33269298

 

 

 

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Prince was an amazing writer, musician, etc. He didn't have to blow his horn.

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21 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I'm sure most people have seen Prince's solo on this track from the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame performance. For some reason I'd forgotten this was also available as a lossless audio track and I just re-found it today on Tidal and Qobuz. 

 

Enjoy if you haven't already.

 

Qobuz - https://open.qobuz.com/album/0610583435122

Tidal - https://tidal.com/browse/album/33269298

 

 

 

Tried to load the album in Tidal Android application but strangely Tidal won't find it there...  Great performance otherwise!!

 

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Very nice performance, particularly Pettys' and Lynne's vocals.  Marc Mann, the guy who played all the EC parts in the song and solo in middle did justice to these iconic lines.  

 

I remember being impressed by Prince's jam at the end when I watched this years ago, great showmanship, stage moves and guitar face.  No doubt a brilliant musician and band leader. One of the slickest, tightest and in the pocket shows I have ever witnessed was Prince with his band at the Seminole Hard Rock, where he warmed up for his Super Bowl 2007 performance.  

 

But seeing this again and listening critically, I'm feeling his showmanship gets an A and the playing a B, a bunch of wailing on Am pentatonic licks with a lot of gain and some effects...no doubt with great feel, but musically light.  But I have noticed in most cases, that's what the crowd wants in rock n' roll.

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6 hours ago, 57gold said:

But seeing this again and listening critically, I'm feeling his showmanship gets an A and the playing a B, a bunch of wailing on Am pentatonic licks with a lot of gain and some effects...no doubt with great feel, but musically light.  But I have noticed in most cases, that's what the crowd wants in rock n' roll.

I wouldn't be to critical about it.  It's about improving with no rehearsal.  The musicians who were playing with him, loved it. 

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/tom-petty-prince-hall-of-fame/

 

For a different point of view on solos.  Here's 3 different versions of the "Stairway to Heaven" solo.  Kind of fun to watch created by Rick Beato.

 

 

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ShawnC - Each player's take on SWTH solo on Beato's video was an attempt at instilling each player's style and offer some harmonic complexity whilst taking on one of Pagey's best composed solos.  Interestingly, SWTH and WMGGW solo vamps are very similar in structure with descending line starting on same chord Am, same key.  

 

To me, the EC solo which Jeff Lynne's bandmate plays in the performance is far more compelling and lyrical.  Prince steps out of the shadows at the end of the tune and does Prince, the performer in his red hat taking over the stage with a group of kind of stodgy white guys (many of them English, which may be the stodgiest version of white guys) and jams with what are generally believed to be "guitarisms": pull offs, octave bends (stretching one string up a couple of steps to meet the note of the higher string that is held, which gets that kind of screeching sound), big bends, simple but fast repetitive riffs...stuff that guitarists can do easily, but other instruments aren't built for.  All to good dramatic effect, but just Am pentatonic "wanking".  Understand that Prince's performance was unrehearsed and he surprises the players on the stage with a kind of "Jimi does WMGGW" with the dancing around the stage, back bend, guitar face...it worked and the audience and I loved it when I first heard it, because it was such a contrast to the almost religious homage Petty, Lynne, Dhani and band delivered the tune before Prince steps up to the plate.  

 

As a 40+ year guitar player, one who continues to work on improving (currently studying with two jazz instructors on taking my rock/blues base into a deeper understanding of music), I did what these guys have helped me understand, which is analysis of tunes. Like, what is Coltrane or Monk or Metheny playing?  I applied this type of analysis to Prince's solo, which harmonically is pretty simple, unlike say Eric Johnson's attempt at SWTH, which is more complex than Pagey's but less compelling. 

 

ShawnC's advice is sound, just enjoy it.  

 

I have often been surprised when playing at my regular jam that audiences respond very favorably when I keep solos relatively simple and do not unload musical complexity (the stuff my jazz instructors live for).  What I mean is that, say sax player steps up and are jamming on Cissy Strut, a simple vamp in C7.  One can play Prince-like Cm pentatonic with bends, fast runs, repeated pull offs... rock guitar hero stuff or do what John Scofield would do, play around the tonal center with tensions like the tritone substitute or insert the altered 5th chord tonality or play diminished riffs and then resolve to C7 (Sco would use them all and more, listen to his stuff with MM&W).  The latter is much harder to pull off musically and to some, you can end up with what my wife calls "headache jazz".  For rock guitar guys, a comparison would be SRV versus Robben Ford, SRV stayed simple with great feeling and a signature technique that he put together from Albert, BB King & Co. versus Robben who played with Miles and other jazz guys and inserts jazz harmony in his riffs and comping.  Neither better, just different like Chianti Classico or Barbaresco, one can like them both, which I do.  Have dozens of recording of both and have attended multiple performances of each.

 

Gonna go play some guitar.

 

 

Tone with Soul

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8 minutes ago, 57gold said:

ShawnC - Each player's take on SWTH solo on Beato's video was an attempt at instilling each player's style and offer some harmonic complexity whilst taking on one of Pagey's best composed solos.  Interestingly, SWTH and WMGGW solo vamps are very similar in structure with descending line starting on same chord Am, same key.  

 

To me, the EC solo which Jeff Lynne's bandmate plays in the performance is far more compelling and lyrical.  Prince steps out of the shadows at the end of the tune and does Prince, the performer in his red hat taking over the stage with a group of kind of stodgy white guys (many of them English, which may be the stodgiest version of white guys) and jams with what are generally believed to be "guitarisms": pull offs, octave bends (stretching one string up a couple of steps to meet the note of the higher string that is held, which gets that kind of screeching sound), big bends, simple but fast repetitive riffs...stuff that guitarists can do easily, but other instruments aren't built for.  All to good dramatic effect, but just Am pentatonic "wanking".  Understand that Prince's performance was unrehearsed and he surprises the players on the stage with a kind of "Jimi does WMGGW" with the dancing around the stage, back bend, guitar face...it worked and the audience and I loved it when I first heard it, because it was such a contrast to the almost religious homage Petty, Lynne, Dhani and band delivered the tune before Prince steps up to the plate.  

 

As a 40+ year guitar player, one who continues to work on improving (currently studying with two jazz instructors on taking my rock/blues base into a deeper understanding of music), I did what these guys have helped me understand, which is analysis of tunes. Like, what is Coltrane or Monk or Metheny playing and I applied this type of analysis to Prince's solo, which harmonically is pretty simple, unlike say Eric Johnson's attempt at SWTH, which is more complex than Pagey's but less compelling. 

 

ShawnC's advice is sound, just enjoy it.  

 

I have often been surprised when playing at my regular jam that audiences respond very favorably when I keep solos relatively simple and do not unload musical complexity (the stuff my jazz instructors live for).  What I mean is that, say sax player steps up and are jamming on Cissy Strut, a simple vamp in C7.  One can play Prince-like Cm pentatonic with bends, fast runs, repeated pull offs... rock guitar hero stuff or do what John Scofield would do, play around the tonal center with tensions like the tritone substitute or insert the altered 5th chord tonality or play diminished riffs and then resolve to C7 (Scott would use them all).  The latter is much harder to pull off musically and to some, you can end up with what my wife calls "headache jazz".  For rock guitar guys, a comparison would be SRV versus Robben Ford, SRV stayed simple with great feeling and a signature technique that he put together from Albert, BB King & Co. versus Robben who played with Miles and other jazz guys and inserts jazz harmony in his riffs and comping.  Neither better, just different like Chianti Classico or Barbaresco, one can like them both, which I do.  Have dozens of recording of both and have attended multiple performances of each.

 

Gonna go play some guitar.

 

 

I love this post as it touches on something I've been thinking about since I read your first post and also reminds me of my stance that art can't be judged, only appreciated (or not) and enjoyed (or not). It's also fantastic that you have interests/skills on both sides of the issue (listener and artist). 

 

As crazy as this sounds, it's a little like the objectivist guys who like components that measure better even though this better measurement can't be heard. Guitarists seem to like harder to play material, just because it's harder to play and objectivists like better measuring gear because it's harder to design. There's no right or wrong, just different people with different background liking different things.

 

For example, this track from King Crimson is incredibly boring to me and the opposite of enjoyable. Yet, many guitarists fawn over it. Think about how the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame performance would've been if this track would've been played rather than what was played. The guitarists in the audience would have loved it much more. 

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Yup, good music is what moves you.  

 

Found the King Crimson piece interesting but it wouldn't get played in my music room for enjoyment.  There is a lot of room between Prince's solo and the KC performance...like what Eric Johnson might have played or say Satriani in his more lyrical moments, like his 1995 album Satriani, which upon recent re listening is great soulful playing, where technique takes a back seat (one to check out).

 

Still one of my favorite guitarist, bar none, is Keef.  What he does with his chord work and riffs which are the foundation of all great Stones tunes, is harmonically simple but immediately identifiable and kick ass.  The guy almost can't play lead parts, but what he does is great.  And he surprises you, like with this performance:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXUO_GAV2mQ

 

 

Agree 100%
 

Several years ago when @Jud visited my house, he played a Stones tune for me, where KR delayed his playing a split second to make the track magic. Stuff like this is golden. 

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I love this post as it touches on something I've been thinking about since I read your first post and also reminds me of my stance that art can't be judged, only appreciated (or not) and enjoyed (or not). It's also fantastic that you have interests/skills on both sides of the issue (listener and artist). 

 

As crazy as this sounds, it's a little like the objectivist guys who like components that measure better even though this better measurement can't be heard. Guitarists seem to like harder to play material, just because it's harder to play and objectivists like better measuring gear because it's harder to design. There's no right or wrong, just different people with different background liking different things.

 

For example, this track from King Crimson is incredibly boring to me and the opposite of enjoyable. Yet, many guitarists fawn over it. Think about how the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame performance would've been if this track would've been played rather than what was played. The guitarists in the audience would have loved it much more. 

 

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Yup, good music is what moves you.  

 

Found the King Crimson piece interesting but it wouldn't get played in my music room for enjoyment.  There is a lot of room between Prince's solo and the KC performance...like what Eric Johnson might have played or say Satriani in his more lyrical moments, like his 1995 album Satriani, which upon recent re listening is great soulful playing, where technique takes a back seat (one to check out).

 

Still one of my favorite guitarist, bar none, is Keef.  What he does with his chord work and riffs which are the foundation of all great Stones tunes, is harmonically simple but immediately identifiable and kick ass.  The guy almost can't play lead parts, but what he does is great.  And he surprises you, like with this performance:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXUO_GAV2mQ

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Agree 100%
 

Several years ago when @Jud visited my house, he played a Stones tune for me, where KR delayed his playing a split second to make the track magic. Stuff like this is golden. 

 

I like them all.

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I have always loved when he throws his guitar into the air at the end.  Wondered for years who caught it :)

 

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On 10/24/2020 at 4:44 PM, 57gold said:

ShawnC - Each player's take on SWTH solo on Beato's video was an attempt at instilling each player's style and offer some harmonic complexity whilst taking on one of Pagey's best composed solos.  Interestingly, SWTH and WMGGW solo vamps are very similar in structure with descending line starting on same chord Am, same key.  

 

To me, the EC solo which Jeff Lynne's bandmate plays in the performance is far more compelling and lyrical.  Prince steps out of the shadows at the end of the tune and does Prince, the performer in his red hat taking over the stage with a group of kind of stodgy white guys (many of them English, which may be the stodgiest version of white guys) and jams with what are generally believed to be "guitarisms": pull offs, octave bends (stretching one string up a couple of steps to meet the note of the higher string that is held, which gets that kind of screeching sound), big bends, simple but fast repetitive riffs...stuff that guitarists can do easily, but other instruments aren't built for.  All to good dramatic effect, but just Am pentatonic "wanking".  Understand that Prince's performance was unrehearsed and he surprises the players on the stage with a kind of "Jimi does WMGGW" with the dancing around the stage, back bend, guitar face...it worked and the audience and I loved it when I first heard it, because it was such a contrast to the almost religious homage Petty, Lynne, Dhani and band delivered the tune before Prince steps up to the plate.  

 

As a 40+ year guitar player, one who continues to work on improving (currently studying with two jazz instructors on taking my rock/blues base into a deeper understanding of music), I did what these guys have helped me understand, which is analysis of tunes. Like, what is Coltrane or Monk or Metheny playing?  I applied this type of analysis to Prince's solo, which harmonically is pretty simple, unlike say Eric Johnson's attempt at SWTH, which is more complex than Pagey's but less compelling. 

 

ShawnC's advice is sound, just enjoy it.  

 

I have often been surprised when playing at my regular jam that audiences respond very favorably when I keep solos relatively simple and do not unload musical complexity (the stuff my jazz instructors live for).  What I mean is that, say sax player steps up and are jamming on Cissy Strut, a simple vamp in C7.  One can play Prince-like Cm pentatonic with bends, fast runs, repeated pull offs... rock guitar hero stuff or do what John Scofield would do, play around the tonal center with tensions like the tritone substitute or insert the altered 5th chord tonality or play diminished riffs and then resolve to C7 (Sco would use them all and more, listen to his stuff with MM&W).  The latter is much harder to pull off musically and to some, you can end up with what my wife calls "headache jazz".  For rock guitar guys, a comparison would be SRV versus Robben Ford, SRV stayed simple with great feeling and a signature technique that he put together from Albert, BB King & Co. versus Robben who played with Miles and other jazz guys and inserts jazz harmony in his riffs and comping.  Neither better, just different like Chianti Classico or Barbaresco, one can like them both, which I do.  Have dozens of recording of both and have attended multiple performances of each.

 

Gonna go play some guitar.

 

 

 

Prince's solo is flashy, fun, and even if he resorts to gimmicks it is still highly enjoyeable. "Energy" is something difficult to qualify, and does not have much to do with technique... Think of Paul Gonsalves at Newport - his solo was not terribly interesting either, but he practically created a riot.  The most interesting part of Prince's solo, IMO, is the end, from 5:30, and especially 5:40 when he plays more rythmically, these lower chords - too bad it ends at that point, he could have really started jamming.

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On 5/11/2021 at 4:10 PM, hopkins said:

 

Prince's solo is flashy, fun, and even if he resorts to gimmicks it is still highly enjoyeable. "Energy" is something difficult to qualify, and does not have much to do with technique... Think of Paul Gonsalves at Newport - his solo was not terribly interesting either, but he practically created a riot.  The most interesting part of Prince's solo, IMO, is the end, from 5:30, and especially 5:40 when he plays more rythmically, these lower chords - too bad it ends at that point, he could have really started jamming.

 

Never heard of the "famous PG solo", but found it with some cool commentary on youtube.

 

After an orchestrated intro, 27 bars of I IV V in Db (though a score I found has it in C), simplest blues changes in the world (or though, come to think of it Muddy and John Lee Hooker could jam forever on the I).  Almost straight pentatonics, a bit of chromatics and in several turnarounds some superimposed II Vs...pretty rootsy versus what Parker, Coltrane, Cannonball, Henderson, Rollins...would have played in that era.  Sure got the crowd pumped, like Prince doing simple stuff. 

 

Someone smart said, "it's not what you play, it's how you play it."

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On 5/11/2021 at 1:10 PM, hopkins said:

To me, the EC solo which Jeff Lynne's bandmate plays in the performance is far more compelling and lyrical.  Prince steps out of the shadows at the end of the tune and does Prince, the performer in his red hat taking over the stage with a group of kind of stodgy white guys (many of them English, which may be the stodgiest version of white guys) and jams with what are generally believed to be "guitarisms": pull offs, octave bends (stretching one string up a couple of steps to meet the note of the higher string that is held, which gets that kind of screeching sound), big bends, simple but fast repetitive riffs...stuff that guitarists can do easily, but other instruments aren't built for.  All to good dramatic effect, but just Am pentatonic "wanking".  

 

WHAT A COMPLETE AND TOTAL UNMITIGATED LOAD OF CRAP! (shouting intended)

 

And, BTW, thanks for telling us what guitar "bends" are. I am sure the members of this forum, in our collective ignorance, really needed this explanation from one so obviously and uniquely knowledgeable as yourself.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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Looks like Allan slipped into a quote within a quote problem.

 

On 10/24/2020 at 3:44 PM, 57gold said:

a group of kind of stodgy white guys (many of them English, which may be the stodgiest version of white guys) and jams with what are generally believed to be "guitarisms": pull offs, octave bends (stretching one string up a couple of steps to meet the note of the higher string that is held, which gets that kind of screeching sound)

 

I'm indifferent to someone telling me what I already know about bends, riffs and Prince. But the bit about "stodgy white guys (many of them English, which may be the stodgiest version of white guys)" is - obviously tho' - "COMPLETE AND TOTAL UNMITIGATED CRAP!"

 

:-)

My system is ethernet-based (RedNet/Dante) but strictly offline. I don't stream music from the internet.

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Watch the video prior to Prince's appearance, it seems like they are doing homage in the church of The Beatles, restrained and, well kinda stodgy.  Then Prince dramatically changes the vibe.  Can't see that?

 

Also will note the earlier praise of the stodgy white guy authored melodic lead and breaks, originally performed by EC and covered by a guy who I'm guessing is English versus the streams of classic rock, energetic wankery played by Prince. All good if one likes show over substance.  

 

Was underscoring the stylistic juxtaposition in the performance with some hyperbole.  I keep forgetting it's a woke world of hypersensitive folks who see incorrectness in every corner.  Must be hard.  

 

Posted by a stodgy white guy, who grew up in what some might call the USA's stodgiest state, CT. 

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33 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Watch the video prior to Prince's appearance, it seems like they are doing homage in the church of The Beatles, restrained and, well kinda stodgy.  Then Prince dramatically changes the vibe.  Can't see that?

 

Also will note the earlier praise of the stodgy white guy authored melodic lead and breaks, originally performed by EC and covered by a guy who I'm guessing is English versus the streams of classic rock, energetic wankery played by Prince. All good if one likes show over substance.  

 

Was underscoring the stylistic juxtaposition in the performance with some hyperbole.  I keep forgetting it's a woke world of hypersensitive folks who see incorrectness in every corner.  Must be hard.  

 

Posted by a stodgy white guy, who grew up in what some might call the USA's stodgiest state, CT. 

I take no issue with what you've said :~)

 

I see Prince's part as very colorful and entertaining in a sea of monochrome awards show style boring performances. Sure, it's art and there's no such thing as good/bad/better/worse, it's up to us as viewers to decide what we think of it. It may be mundane for those learned in guitar playing, but for entertainment value for us plebeians, it's absolute gold.  

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58 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Prince dramatically changes the vibe.  Can't see that?

 

Already saw it

 

58 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Also will note the earlier praise of the stodgy white guy authored melodic lead and breaks, originally performed by EC and covered by a guy who I'm guessing is English versus the streams of classic rock, energetic wankery played by Prince. All good if one likes show over substance.  

 

Was underscoring the stylistic juxtaposition in the performance with some hyperbole. 

 

Got it

 

59 minutes ago, 57gold said:

I keep forgetting it's a woke world of hypersensitive folks who see incorrectness in every corner.  Must be hard. 

 

Honestly it was nothing but a trans-Atlantic joke in the wake of Allan F's Hopkins faux pas (and shouty disapproval of your commentary). Nothing more. If I were stodgy (and English) I might have taken it personally. But actually I'm pretty slim and gorgeous (and more than half Irish). So no harm done.

 

1 hour ago, 57gold said:

Posted by a stodgy white guy, who grew up in what some might call the USA's stodgiest state, CT. 

 

Greetings and much AS love x

My system is ethernet-based (RedNet/Dante) but strictly offline. I don't stream music from the internet.

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