While My Guitar Gently Weeps

[57gold]

Very nice performance, particularly Pettys' and Lynne's vocals.  Marc Mann, the guy who played all the EC parts in the song and solo in middle did justice to these iconic lines.  

 

I remember being impressed by Prince's jam at the end when I watched this years ago, great showmanship, stage moves and guitar face.  No doubt a brilliant musician and band leader. One of the slickest, tightest and in the pocket shows I have ever witnessed was Prince with his band at the Seminole Hard Rock, where he warmed up for his Super Bowl 2007 performance.  

 

But seeing this again and listening critically, I'm feeling his showmanship gets an A and the playing a B, a bunch of wailing on Am pentatonic licks with a lot of gain and some effects...no doubt with great feel, but musically light.  But I have noticed in most cases, that's what the crowd wants in rock n' roll.

[57gold]

ShawnC - Each player's take on SWTH solo on Beato's video was an attempt at instilling each player's style and offer some harmonic complexity whilst taking on one of Pagey's best composed solos.  Interestingly, SWTH and WMGGW solo vamps are very similar in structure with descending line starting on same chord Am, same key.  

 

To me, the EC solo which Jeff Lynne's bandmate plays in the performance is far more compelling and lyrical.  Prince steps out of the shadows at the end of the tune and does Prince, the performer in his red hat taking over the stage with a group of kind of stodgy white guys (many of them English, which may be the stodgiest version of white guys) and jams with what are generally believed to be "guitarisms": pull offs, octave bends (stretching one string up a couple of steps to meet the note of the higher string that is held, which gets that kind of screeching sound), big bends, simple but fast repetitive riffs...stuff that guitarists can do easily, but other instruments aren't built for.  All to good dramatic effect, but just Am pentatonic "wanking".  Understand that Prince's performance was unrehearsed and he surprises the players on the stage with a kind of "Jimi does WMGGW" with the dancing around the stage, back bend, guitar face...it worked and the audience and I loved it when I first heard it, because it was such a contrast to the almost religious homage Petty, Lynne, Dhani and band delivered the tune before Prince steps up to the plate.  

 

As a 40+ year guitar player, one who continues to work on improving (currently studying with two jazz instructors on taking my rock/blues base into a deeper understanding of music), I did what these guys have helped me understand, which is analysis of tunes. Like, what is Coltrane or Monk or Metheny playing?  I applied this type of analysis to Prince's solo, which harmonically is pretty simple, unlike say Eric Johnson's attempt at SWTH, which is more complex than Pagey's but less compelling. 

 

ShawnC's advice is sound, just enjoy it.  

 

I have often been surprised when playing at my regular jam that audiences respond very favorably when I keep solos relatively simple and do not unload musical complexity (the stuff my jazz instructors live for).  What I mean is that, say sax player steps up and are jamming on Cissy Strut, a simple vamp in C7.  One can play Prince-like Cm pentatonic with bends, fast runs, repeated pull offs... rock guitar hero stuff or do what John Scofield would do, play around the tonal center with tensions like the tritone substitute or insert the altered 5th chord tonality or play diminished riffs and then resolve to C7 (Sco would use them all and more, listen to his stuff with MM&W).  The latter is much harder to pull off musically and to some, you can end up with what my wife calls "headache jazz".  For rock guitar guys, a comparison would be SRV versus Robben Ford, SRV stayed simple with great feeling and a signature technique that he put together from Albert, BB King & Co. versus Robben who played with Miles and other jazz guys and inserts jazz harmony in his riffs and comping.  Neither better, just different like Chianti Classico or Barbaresco, one can like them both, which I do.  Have dozens of recording of both and have attended multiple performances of each.

 

Gonna go play some guitar.

 

 

[57gold]

Yup, good music is what moves you.  

 

Found the King Crimson piece interesting but it wouldn't get played in my music room for enjoyment.  There is a lot of room between Prince's solo and the KC performance...like what Eric Johnson might have played or say Satriani in his more lyrical moments, like his 1995 album Satriani, which upon recent re listening is great soulful playing, where technique takes a back seat (one to check out).

 

Still one of my favorite guitarist, bar none, is Keef.  What he does with his chord work and riffs which are the foundation of all great Stones tunes, is harmonically simple but immediately identifiable and kick ass.  The guy almost can't play lead parts, but what he does is great.  And he surprises you, like with this performance:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXUO_GAV2mQ

 

 

[57gold]

In most bands, players follow the drummer, with the Stones, everyone follows Keith including Charlie! 

 

His timing, syncopation, swing make the tunes work.

 

Pet Townsend was in the similar position with The Who, laying down the rhythm while Entwhistle and Moon played never ending solos and fills.

[57gold]

On 5/11/2021 at 4:10 PM, hopkins said:

 

Prince's solo is flashy, fun, and even if he resorts to gimmicks it is still highly enjoyeable. "Energy" is something difficult to qualify, and does not have much to do with technique... Think of Paul Gonsalves at Newport - his solo was not terribly interesting either, but he practically created a riot.  The most interesting part of Prince's solo, IMO, is the end, from 5:30, and especially 5:40 when he plays more rythmically, these lower chords - too bad it ends at that point, he could have really started jamming.

 

Never heard of the "famous PG solo", but found it with some cool commentary on youtube.

 

After an orchestrated intro, 27 bars of I IV V in Db (though a score I found has it in C), simplest blues changes in the world (or though, come to think of it Muddy and John Lee Hooker could jam forever on the I).  Almost straight pentatonics, a bit of chromatics and in several turnarounds some superimposed II Vs...pretty rootsy versus what Parker, Coltrane, Cannonball, Henderson, Rollins...would have played in that era.  Sure got the crowd pumped, like Prince doing simple stuff. 

 

Someone smart said, "it's not what you play, it's how you play it."

[57gold]

Watch the video prior to Prince's appearance, it seems like they are doing homage in the church of The Beatles, restrained and, well kinda stodgy.  Then Prince dramatically changes the vibe.  Can't see that?

 

Also will note the earlier praise of the stodgy white guy authored melodic lead and breaks, originally performed by EC and covered by a guy who I'm guessing is English versus the streams of classic rock, energetic wankery played by Prince. All good if one likes show over substance.  

 

Was underscoring the stylistic juxtaposition in the performance with some hyperbole.  I keep forgetting it's a woke world of hypersensitive folks who see incorrectness in every corner.  Must be hard.  

 

Posted by a stodgy white guy, who grew up in what some might call the USA's stodgiest state, CT. 

[57gold]

Just to be clear, stodgy is an adjective that does not imply overweight nor stocky, only staid, conservative, maybe dull...so no intent to implicate the chubby.   Glad you have a strong self image...wish I was gorgeous.

 

No English in my personal background, unless it came from the Norman and subsequent conquests of Ireland.  My children have significant English ancestry from their mother's side, descendants of the English Puritan settlers of New England, a stodgy and intolerant group of folks by today's standards responsible for the historical character of CT.

 

 

[57gold]

Actually play very well, better than ever.  Quarantine's only positive I can think of.

 

Yes the stodgy Englishmen comments is hyperbolic...intentional rubbish.

 

The critique of Prince's solo versus EC's original version of solos and fills is accurate.  Not dissing Prince, he played to the audience and probably figured he couldn't top the original from a melodic perspective so he went a different direction.  

 

One of best concerts I have ever attended was Prince's stop at the Hollywood FL Hard Rock a few nights before his 2007 Super Bowl performance.  His band was super tight, made up of supremely talented players/singers and he was on fire.  Left the show a Prince believer; had purchased his some of his albums that to me featured great songs though were hampered by overdone arrangements/production and less than pretty sonics, common to many 1980s productions.  In person, as a performer and band leader, he was magnificent.  Antithesis of stodgy.

[57gold]

Watched it again.  

 

Great guitar face, red hat, appearance out of the darkness and beaucoup guitaristic tricks - bends, pull offs, open string trills, fast pentatonic runs, a few spots with octaves on a gained out Boogie (or pedals and amp that get that screaming distorted tone), unrehearsed "falling" into the audience to an awaiting crew member...all show, based upon cliche "Rock Star" riffs.  

 

Chris liked the show and so did Dhani.  The playing fit the showman's goals. Great playing, not really, but it's OK if you dig it.

 

EC's solo break on the Bob tune is simple playing off a C major scale, the key of the tune...simple isn't bad.  Neil's was more original and raw, like Neil.

 

[57gold]

Yes, it's not what you play but how you play it.  

 

But then there are good players and there are great, inventive players.  Have to remember Pete Townsend, who thought he was great, until he saw Jimi in London and thought about giving up guitar playing.

 

For simplicity, listen to to Neil's original Cinnamon Girl solo.  One note D, the key center of the tune bent, twisted, plucked and massaged for an entire chorus (actually freaked out in Jr High when we learned the tune and figured this out, could it be just a D?).  Read later that Neil said that it wasn't just one note, they are all different based son how he played them.  And then have to love a guy with a catalog of @1,200 published tunes saying, "It's all one song."

 

In 2000 got tickets for CSN&Y for my birthday for whole family, wife in kids aged 12 and 10 in Tampa.  They were pumped to go to a rock concert, our home always has a half dozen guitars lying around and my son started learning to play.  My son and I went to the stage and met Neils guitar tech who was setting up, Larry Crag, who told us about Neil's rig (Tweed Deluxes with  6L6s vs 6V6, no transformer mods, and the Whizzer that controls the 4 knobs on the Deluxe with 4 presets). 

 

Told kids to watch for Neil getting into it doing his "man with a spear in his back dance" which is what Crosby referred to his jam dance as, which they loved doing.  Funniest part of show was when my 10 year old daughter turned to me during the Down by the River jam and asked, "Daaaad, is this song ever going to be over?"  Replied, "I hope not."

[57gold]

Yes, he nailed it.  It being the Prince show.

 

Explanation: Answered the question Chris asked, "why was the solo musically light".  My description is accurate.

 

What Clapton played on his friend's song in 1968 was groundbreaking playing and sonics.  Prince's performance at the 2016 RR HOF was a pentatonic shred, well delivered and executed.  Something folks have been doing for the last 50 years, well since Jimi and EC and...  

 

Exit stage before everyone else and guitar disappears into the heavens.   

[57gold]

22 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

It's really too bad that you are unable to separate Prince's showmanship from his outstanding skill and talent, allowing your apparent distaste of the former to dictate your biased view of the latter.

 

See below a quote from my earlier post, hardly someone who doesn't appreciate his talents, just thought the WMGGW outro solo was a musically light performance enrobed in the Price show.

 

One of best concerts I have ever attended was Prince's stop at the Hollywood FL Hard Rock a few nights before his 2007 Super Bowl performance.  His band was super tight, made up of supremely talented players/singers and he was on fire.  Left the show a Prince believer; had purchased his some of his albums that to me featured great songs though were hampered by overdone arrangements/production and less than pretty sonics, common to many 1980s productions.  In person, as a performer and band leader, he was magnificent.