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Anyone need a 25MHz Crystal/Clock to theirs Buffalo switch, NUC`s or? At Andrea Mori`s Groupbuy at Diyaudio.


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The train to Andrea`s Group Buy at Diyaudio at crystals, clockboards and psuèr is running soon.
I do not know Andrea personally or have financial interests in his threads.
The reason why I am creating this thread is that the frequency of 25MHz is not so popular/normal and ie that it will probably be difficult to 
achieve the minimum requirement of 10 or 15 pieces just on Diyaudio and therefore I try here to spread the message about his GB in other forums,
as others must also have the chance, as well as I do not even have 10 Buffalo BS-GS2016 switches etc. and thus I don`t need 10-15 crystals, 
if I am the only one who orders a 25MHz crystal at diyaudios GB.

Whether his 25MHz or 6.25MHz crystals/clocks are worse or better than ex. Pink Faun`s ULTRA OCXO, I don`t know,
but Andrea writes a bit about it here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/261651-tempered-master-clock-building-low-phase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator-post6344203.html
Andrea even mentions these 3 options cheapest to most expensive I think:

"All in one" solution, the new Pierce oscillator with an AT crystal at 6.25 MHz followed by 1/2 doublers in the same PCB. Good, cheapest.

The new Driscoll oscillator (TWTMC-DRIXO) with SC crystal at 25MHz. Better, more expensive.

The new Driscoll oscillator (TWTMC-DRIXO) with SC crystal at 6.25 MHz followed by a couple of doublers. Best, most expensive.

A TWTMC-DRIXO board is available as far as I have understood as just pcb, almost finished pcb or finished, without crystal, 
but Andrea will soon come with the options, the final prices and BOM on his crystals, clockboards and psuèr.

Anyone interested?   ;0)

Links:
The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise / jitter crystal oscillator:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/261651-tempered-master-clock-building-low-phase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator-283.html
The Well Tempered Master Clock - Group buy:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/291925-tempered-master-clock-buy-44.html
The Well Regulated Power Supply:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/212476-regulated-power-supply-16.html
 
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  • 1 month later...

Sorry, the above looks like crap, It`s looked allright in the preview... 😉

Andreas Groupbuy at Diyaudio is about to finished soon
and in this moment it looks like the this state of art OXCO Board etc.
will be the only one where the (MOQ) have to reach at least 10 pieces of a 25MHz Crystal is possible.

Ask questions, please... I don`t bite 😁

Here is what You need and a little diy skills or others help is a must😉
 

XO:
25 MHz SC-cut Laptech crystal 3rd overtone SC-cut HC-43/U  € 45,00


XO board:
TWTMC-DRIXO-F  New Driscoll XO € 149,00
F=Finished, without XO crystal.


TWTMC-DRIXO-SF New Driscoll XO € 44,00
SF=Semi-finished boards, without XO crystal.
You need to order the missing components mentioned in the BOM at Mouser or.. and solder a few smd capacitors and bigger components. The components cost about 20€.
Hammond cabinet, if needed (mouser part number 546-1455J1601) about 20€.


Mini-Circuits transformers kit:
TWTMC-DRIXO-XFMR 22-25 MHz New Driscoll XO transformers kit 22-24 MHz € 27,00


Sine to square converter:
TWTMC-STS-FSDO-F, fanout version without switching logic
1 input 2 output Price maybe € 18,00(Under evaluation).
Other options are available, but this version is prefered, if you have 2 Buffalo BS GS2016 or other 25MHz switches, because you just need 1 XO board to feed two 25MHz switches or others there need the 25MHz frequence.

How to order:
Please download the order form from the GB thread here
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/291925-tempered-master-clock-buy-post6422442.html
and send Andrea it filled with the items of your interest.
 

 

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Link to Info PDF`s especially VII gives a good overview.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/291925-tempered-master-clock-buy-post6399630.html

 

Measurements TWTMC-DRIXO new Driscoll oscillator and BOM.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/261651-tempered-master-clock-building-low-phase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator-post6388080.html

 

TWTMC-STS-FSDO Sine to square converter,  pictures and info.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/261651-tempered-master-clock-building-low-phase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator-post6412227.html

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/261651-tempered-master-clock-building-low-phase-noise-jitter-crystal-oscillator-post6406417.html

 

Power supplies:

Low noise linear regulators for oscillators and doublers.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/212476-regulated-power-supply-post6331593.html

TWRPS-UGL Low noise linear regulator and BOM.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/212476-regulated-power-supply-post6388348.html

 

TWRPS-pp Low noise push-pull regulator and BOM.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/212476-regulated-power-supply-post6388338.html



LiFePo4 battery supply system for oscilaltors, doublers and DAC.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/212476-regulated-power-supply-post6364638.html


TWRPS-LBS-M LiFePo4 batteries power supply main board and BOM.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/212476-regulated-power-supply-post6388656.html

TWRPS-LBS-D LiFePo4 batteries power supply daughter board and BOM.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/212476-regulated-power-supply-post6388658.html


TWRPS-LBS-P LiFePo4 batteries power supply PSU and BOM.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/212476-regulated-power-supply-post6388661.html

 

 

 


 

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Bacillus, have you decided to not order the 6.25MHz sc crystal? I'm interested in that possibility and getting two clock doublers so as to lower the phase noise 10 to 15 db and still get the 25 Mhz final freq. Are there enough orders for a group buy of the 6.25MHz crystal and is there still time to get in on it?

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10 hours ago, Crom said:

THanks for the heads up @basillus I have been meaning to try Andrea's clocks. I tried to get involved in the last GB but didn't have time to work out what I needed! I'll take a look.

 

I'll certainly be after 25 ... maybe even a 24 in case I decide to use USB again...

Hi Crom.
It seems that the GB will end soon, maybe this week, so who there is interested need to react ASAP
and it`s now look like that the TWTMC-PXO-AIO board with the AT 6.25MHz crystal to get the 25MHz frequence
has the greatest chance of achieving MOQ of 10,

so my Drixo recommendations above are on standby ;o)
but the AIO board with the 6.25MHz has also better specifications/measurements than the Drixo with a 25MHz crystal.



New suggestion ;o)
XO:

6.2500 MHz AT-cut Laptech crystal fundamental AT-cut HC-43/U  € 38.00

 

XO board:
TWTMC-PXO-AIO-SF New Pierce XO All in One without crystal and box € 49.00

 

What skills do I need to go with semi-finished boards?
You should have the ability to solder some SMD components like 0805, 1206 and SOIC packages.
You need to order the missing components mentioned in the BOM at Mouser or..
The components cost about 20€.
Hammond cabinet, if needed (mouser part number 546-1455L2201) about 20€.
Need a 12 to 18 Vdc 80mA Psu.

 

Mini-Circuits transformers kit:
TWTMC-PXO-AIO-XFMR New Pierce XO All in One  transformers kit € 40.00

 

Sine to square converter:
If you only have one 25MHz Buffalo switch or other 25MHz device. This is the cheapest solution:

 

TWTMC-STS SX or DX New Sine to square converter without connectors € 18.00

Need a 3.3 Vdc 15 mA Psu.

 


If you have 2-4 Buffalo switch or other 25Mhz devices. This will be the cheapest solution, because here you only need 1 or 2 TWTMC-PXO-AIO-SF XO boards, because this sine to square converter board have 2 inputs and 2x2 outputs:

 

TWTMC-STS-FSDO-F New Sine to square 2 frequencies fanout 2x distribution possible € 79.00

Need a 3.3 Vdc 50 mA (150 mA peak when relays switch) Psu.

 

Updated Order Form:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/291925-tempered-master-clock-buy-post6429835.html

 




 

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26 minutes ago, exeric2 said:

Bacillus, have you decided to not order the 6.25MHz sc crystal? I'm interested in that possibility and getting two clock doublers so as to lower the phase noise 10 to 15 db and still get the 25 Mhz final freq. Are there enough orders for a group buy of the 6.25MHz crystal and is there still time to get in on it?

Hi exeric2.
I know..., a 6.25MHz SC crystal, TWTMC-DRIXO-SF New Driscoll XO, TWTMC-DRIXO-XFMR 22-24 MHz, TWTMC-DBM-SF and TWTMC-STS SX or DX or TWTMC-STS-FSDO-F will be the best, but also most expensive solution.
The biggest problem is that nobody have ordered the 6.25MHz SC crystal 79€ and the MOQ at this crystal is 15.
and I don`t need 15, so therefore I can`t order this ;O)
but have choosed the second best option.
I think the GB may end this week, but only Andrea know...

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I just read this Andrea wrote yesterday...


Next days I will start collecting payments for the orders with items that meet the MOQ.

I will add the shipping cost and the calculated VAT fee where applicable to each order form I have received, then I will send the proforma invoice (Paypal or proforma invoice by e-mail for those who has chosen bank transfer payment).

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18 hours ago, basillus said:

 

I just wanted to say that I really appreciated you bringing this DIY thread to my attention. I was able to get my order in just under the wire. I think it may end up being a worthy competitor to the Pink Faun clocks at a fraction of the cost. Time will tell (time... get it)

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Is there no more people here wanting 24.000 MHz for upgrading USB cards or 24 MHz motherboard clocks?

 

I am nickname Thom at diyAudio, I want the 24 because both my motherboard (ASUS Rog Hero VII), my DAC (EC Designs) and my USB card (JCAT Femto) use 24.00 MHz crystals. I plan to syncronize the DAC usb communication with the JCAT usb card  by feeding them the same 24 MHz clock signal. I can go for either 6.00 MHz/AIO or 24 MHz/Driscoll but prefer the Driscoll because it has IMO equvalent performance, but is smaller and lower cost. It also means higher flexibility since you could also choose to use the 24.00 with Andrea Mori's old version Driscoll card, which will have slighly worse performance but very small size and low cost.    

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On 11/30/2020 at 9:13 AM, exeric2 said:

Thanks for the information basillus. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong list but looking at the latest chain request that you linked to I only saw 2 each of 6.25 AT crystal ordered. Is there another list that includes previously ordered 6.25 AT crystals? Thanks.

You are welcome and thank you for helping to reach MOQ 10. However, I do not quite understand the almost total lack of interest in here for Andreas groupbuy. It has been nearly mission impossible to reach just MOQ10 and I have ordered the 3 of them... They must not be aware of how difficult it is to find good 24MHz, 25MHz etc. XO crystals at a proper price. Instead, they happily spend large sums on pinkfaun or other much more expensive, but not necessarily better alternatives ...and there must be many in here, who can use a 25MHz crystal and XO-board for their NUC, motherboard, switch, sfp converter etc ...

 

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  • 5 months later...

I hope no one minds my piggybacking on this thread. Andrea at DIY audio said he will probably have another group buy for his oscillators in July. I previously bought an AIO oscillator board with two doublers and an STS board for the 25 Mhz output for the Buffalo 8016 switch. It used a 6.25 Mhz AT cut xtal quadrulpled to 25 Mhz. That seems to be the most economical bundle Andrea has with for that purpose. I'm interested in doing the same thing for the 10 Mhz clock input for my Etherregen. I will need a 5Mhz AT cut xtal  doubled to 10Mhz. If anyone else is interested in doing the same I'd appreciate it you started thinking about it now so you're ready for the July group buy. There's  always a minimum order of around 10 each of  the xtals for any given frequency so that's why I'm mentioning this.. So if anyone here has a Etherregen and wants to upgrade its performance please think about this. To reiterate: I'm looking to assemble at least 10 people to order a 5 Mhz AT cut xtal.

 

It could also work with an SC cut 10 Mhz xtal  but use a drixo board and no doublers. I'm not sure which one would be lower phase noise. The 5 Mhz range xtals have lower phase noise that the 10 Mhz. However the SC cut xtals have lower phase noise than AT cut. It might be a wash.

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13 hours ago, exeric2 said:

It could also work with an SC cut 10 Mhz xtal  but use a drixo board and no doublers. I'm not sure which one would be lower phase noise. The 5 Mhz range xtals have lower phase noise that the 10 Mhz. However the SC cut xtals have lower phase noise than AT cut. It might be a wash.

 

I remember from Andreas measurements last group buy that the phase noise for the 5/6 Mhz SC-cut was actually very similar to the PN for the 11/12 Mhz. Then there was a big increase in PN up to the 22/24 Mhz SC. So based on this, i'm guessing that a 10 MHz SC cut / Driscoll oscillator will have the best performance.

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46 minutes ago, exeric2 said:

The basic information needed was provided further up in this very thread by bacillus.

 

as I stated a bit earlier, I had a real hard time following the earlier posts with so many links to other links to other forums. I appreciate the follow up but I don't see anything "basic" about a thread that has so many links to other links. I have no idea how to go about getting what this fellow is evidently offering. Maybe I'm not trying hard enough ☹️

 

see my system at Audiogon  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/768

 

 

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6 hours ago, realDHT said:

 

I remember from Andreas measurements last group buy that the phase noise for the 5/6 Mhz SC-cut was actually very similar to the PN for the 11/12 Mhz. Then there was a big increase in PN up to the 22/24 Mhz SC. So based on this, i'm guessing that a 10 MHz SC cut / Driscoll oscillator will have the best performance.

I think you're correct. Check comment 3372 on this page:  The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator - Page 338 - diyAudio

 

There's a graph that has  4 oscillator outputs with phase noise at 11.2896 Mhz. It includes a Drixo oscillator with sc-cut xtal for that frequency. It also includes a PIO oscillator but doesn't use its doubler. It's far worse than the Drixos, worse I think than even using a doubler can make up for.  It's pretty bad. The interesting thing isn't that though. It includes 2 drixos with outputs at 11.2896, but one is doubled from a lower frequency. There really isn't that much difference in phase noise between the 2 oscillators.  I think it would be better to just get the Drixo with a 10 Mhz  SC-cut xtal and no doubler to buy or worry about.

 

So again: if anyone is interested in getting a 10 Mhz oscillator for the Etherregen go for the Drixo oscillator and a 10 Mhz SC-cut xtal. That's what I plan on doing if we can get enough people.

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  • 10 months later...
1 hour ago, barrows said:

Finally got around to building up a DriXO WTMC @25 MHz, and using it as an external Ethernet clock for my Signature Rendu SEoptical. ....

 

Indeed, there is a significant performance benefit, it was a Wow! moment within the first couple of notes, even with start up from cold (before the WTMC had a chance to stabilize).  This result surprised me, as I was really expecting there to be no significant difference, I was wrong.  It seems that there is much more to understand about Network audio distribution-fascinating and interesting to say the least.  I cannot even begin to speculate on all of the implications of this result, but for now, I can enjoy the improved sound quality in my system!

That's great Barrows, welcome to the club! :D

 

But be careful, someone with your name might demand proof besides your sighted, subjective impressions... 9_9

On 1/6/2022 at 10:11 PM, barrows said:

Experience and the actual, verifiable, technical results--no one has demonstrated any technical benefit from applying a SOTA clock to Ethernet, and neither has anyone ever postulated a reasonable mechanism for why a better clock for Ethernet would matter (I am aware of JS' speculations on the matter, and his attempts to measure such, but no such measurements have appeared at this point). 

 

Fun stuff! 

Be well my friend,

AJC

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