sot13 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 1 hour ago, gherman said: I installed the OM Deluxe in December and added it upstream to the ER. I just ran into a problem that appears to be the OM Deluxe issue. I'm running DSD512 into a Auralic Aries G2 using Roon. I'm getting errors when running at anything above DSD128. When I take the OM Deluxe out of the configuration, everything works fine. When I add the OM Deluxe, I get errors. Is this the problem that people are talking about here? I don't think so... It might be related, but no. My connection is OM deluxe-> Streamer/DAC via ethernet cable. Yours is I understand OM->ER->streamer(?) Analogue: Michell Orbe SE, SME IV, Van Der Hul MC10 special, Parasound JC3 (phono stage) Digital sources: Sony SCD 1, Ayon S-10 II (network player / DAC) Amplification: Krell KCT (pre), FBP-350mc monoblocks (x2) Speakers: Dynaudio Evidence Temptation Wiring: Atlas Link to comment
gherman Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 So you streamer has fiber input? Link to comment
sot13 Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, gherman said: So you streamer has fiber input? No... I connect the OM deluxe with ethernet cable... For your understanding my network is Network switch->TP link fiber converter->OM deluxe->Streamer/DAC Analogue: Michell Orbe SE, SME IV, Van Der Hul MC10 special, Parasound JC3 (phono stage) Digital sources: Sony SCD 1, Ayon S-10 II (network player / DAC) Amplification: Krell KCT (pre), FBP-350mc monoblocks (x2) Speakers: Dynaudio Evidence Temptation Wiring: Atlas Link to comment
gherman Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 So, you're not using any LAN re-clocker? Link to comment
kennyb123 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 5 hours ago, gherman said: So, you're not using any LAN re-clocker? The opticalModule contains a good clock, Per their website it contains a "fixed frequency high-quality ultra low jitter FEMTO oscillator". As such I count it as a LAN re-clocker. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet > Antipodes K30 > Shunyata Omega USB > Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120 Amp & Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 > Aerial 10T Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra, Shunyata Denali v1 and Typhon x1 power conditioners, Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation and Infinity power cords, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation XLR interconnect, Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, MIT Matrix HD 60 speaker cables, GIK bass traps, ASC Isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels, Quadraspire SVT rack, PGGB 256 Link to comment
R1200CL Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 On 2/16/2021 at 12:20 PM, sot13 said: @jaaptina Hi! I am using a setup like yours... Can you please tell me what is the length of the ethernet cable you use to connect the OM with your streamer? I got OM Deluxe a few days ago and in my case I cannot use anything shorter than 31 inches, because then music stutters and in the worst case my streamer does not even get an IP address. Previously, when I was using TP-Link for the job, I had no problem with very short cables (2.5 inches). I try to understand whether this is a design issue of the OM Deluxe, or my unit is faulty. Thank you Have you tried different Ethernet cables between the OM and your streamer ? Normally you should have a minimum of one meter cable. This isn’t a problem for any of John’s design and you can use shorter cables. However your streamer may like a one meter option. From SMG: Webinar - Networking for Audiophiles We have partnered with the team at AXPONA (Audio Expo North America) to put together a live webinar called Networking For Audiophiles. Learn how to set up a low latency, low noise network that will help your digital source operate with high reliability and amazing sound. We have put together a brief presentation and will have a Q&A session afterward. When: Thursday, February 25th Time: 7:00 PM Eastern, 4:00 PM Pacific Where: Zoom Presentation <<REGISTER NOW>>: Please feel free to post your questions in advance on the registration page. Don't miss out on this great opportunity to significantly improve your digital audio network. Link to comment
sot13 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 hour ago, R1200CL said: Have you tried different Ethernet cables between the OM and your streamer ? Normally you should have a minimum of one meter cable. This isn’t a problem for any of John’s design and you can use shorter cables. However your streamer may like a one meter option. @R1200CLYes, I have tried different cables, of different lengths. The "Normally you should have a minimum of one meter cable" statement is not true by ethernet standards - there is no min length requirement. I have also tested my streamer with a different FBP and it had no problem with a 2.5 inch cable!!! Something must be strange with my sample of OM Deluxe though. I did the test of connecting it to my laptop (i.e. not my audio device / streamer). When connected with a 31 inch cable everything was fine. However, when I used a shorter cable (the shorter... the worst), the link speed dropped from 1000Mbps (that it should be) to 100Mpbs and using the Ping command, I experienced 4-6% packet loss! I think, either my OM Deluxe is faulty, or there is a design issue! Analogue: Michell Orbe SE, SME IV, Van Der Hul MC10 special, Parasound JC3 (phono stage) Digital sources: Sony SCD 1, Ayon S-10 II (network player / DAC) Amplification: Krell KCT (pre), FBP-350mc monoblocks (x2) Speakers: Dynaudio Evidence Temptation Wiring: Atlas Link to comment
gherman Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 The eR does more than reclock. I have a eR and added an OM, and it made audible difference. The biggest improvement however was the eR. In fact an OM and eR made alarge enough a difference that I dumped the audiophile switch. (Whether I used or not used the switch it made no impact.) The problem is I never tried greater than DSD128. I'm getting excessive errors with the OM -> eR and it get nothing but hiss when they are reversed. Link to comment
R1200CL Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 On 10/26/2020 at 5:59 AM, Superdad said: No, the reasons for the creation of the opticalModule Deluxe where: a) Having the copper port able to negotiate down to 100Mps (the smaller original was Gigabit-only) allows people to us the oM Deluxe as an FMC facing to those streamer/renderer endpoints which are only 100Mbps. There are many of that sort. Alex or @JohnSwenson There is a “new” important reason to purchase this oM. If you’re using the EtherRegen in reverse ( normally to feed the opticalRendu. Can’t think of any other HW at the moment), you’re actually more or less guaranteed to break the “moat” of the EtherRegen, and hence an opticalModule powered by an LPS 1/1.2 is the only solution. This is even more problematic if an external clock is added to the EtherRegen. But that discussion add other issues, so we can continue those in the clock or isolation treads. This also raises the question if power side of the oMDL is on the copper side or optical side, but maybe there isn’t a moat on the oMDL, so it’s not a relevant question? Meaning to get full benefit of a isolation done by copper side of the oMDL you must use the special Uptone ultraCaps power supply. Please confirm I’m correct. (No need to comment on the rest of the sketch in this tread). Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted March 11, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 11, 2021 54 minutes ago, R1200CL said: Please confirm I’m correct. Sorry Andreas, I think you are once again over-thinking these things. It makes my head hurt! Do not worry so much. Just enjoy the music. Roasty, TwinPeak, ambre and 2 others 1 1 3 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
R1200CL Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 @agillis or @vortecjr According to @AfterDark., It has being confirmed that the EtherRegen works with 10 GB SFP+ modules. The specific module that has been tested by him is the Finisar FTLX1475D3BTL. This is a pure 10GB transceiver only. No support for 1GB. As he is now selling these items in pairs to members here at AS, and I would also assume several of them has an opticalModule in the other end, (Like I will have later today), can you guys confirm this will work with the opticalModule as well, so there won’t be any surprises. (I’m claiming with great certainty that a 10 GB only SFP+ can’t auto negotiate with a 1GB SFP cage, and hence this won’t work). But maybe @JohnSwenson secretly has added 10 GB support in both the EtherRegen and both the versions of the opticalModule without anyone knowing this was feasible. Then I suggest Uptone as well as Sonore and SGC updates the data about their optical products. @Superdad You may comment on this as well. (I’m getting an error when trying to upload the data sheet, or even pictures). Link to comment
agillis Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 The opticalModule is a 1GB device. It won't work with 10 GB SFP+ modules. agillis Small Green Computer http://www.smallgreencomputer.com/ Link to comment
MarkusBarkus Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 @agillis: it won't work (at all) or it won't work at the higher rate, and will "throttle" to 1GB? Thank you... I'm MarkusBarkus and I approve this post. Link to comment
agillis Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 It won't work at all. 10 GB SFP+ modules are completely different then 1GB modules. The opticalModule wouldn't even know how to "talk" to the module. R1200CL 1 agillis Small Green Computer http://www.smallgreencomputer.com/ Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted March 18, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 hours ago, agillis said: It won't work at all. 10 GB SFP+ modules are completely different then 1GB modules. Actually they are the same interface and pinouts. 3 hours ago, agillis said: The opticalModule wouldn't even know how to "talk" to the module. It will just fine. As long as the switch at the other end is also a 1GB SFP port then two SFP+ modules will work fine. The modules have no clock and don't know of protocols, etc. It is all up to the Ethernet PHY/processor in the equipment itself. The modules are dumb. John will post elsewhere to clear all this up. He is using SFP+ modules for connection between EtherREGEN and opticalRendu. R1200CL, MarkusBarkus and Markus8 1 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
R1200CL Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 29 minutes ago, Superdad said: As long as the switch at the other end is also a 1GB SFP port then two SFP+ modules will work fine. Exactly my point last 24 hours. Thanks for confirming. Only SFP+ modules that also supports 1GB will work. Simple as that. The data sheets for SPF+ modules specifies supported data rates. I’ve suggested some possible nice ones in AfterDark’s tread. Still testing is a good idea. There is always one guy out there that will find a product combination that won’t work 😀 29 minutes ago, Superdad said: It is all up to the Ethernet PHY/processor in the equipment itself. And doesn’t the EtherRegen and opticalModule share this ? Alex, your are normally very precise when technical issues is discussed. If that PHY really supports 10 GB transfer rate by SFP+, just say so. It’s simple as that 😀 It seems the Buffalo switch may support 10GB, but not official, so it may be a possible hidden feature of EtherRegen PHY even the designer didn’t knew about until recently. Looking forward to John’s post. Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted March 18, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2021 1 hour ago, R1200CL said: Only SFP+ modules that also supports 1GB will work. Simple as that. No, not simple as that! SFP/SFP+ optical transceivers do not have clocks, do not negotiate data rates, do care about data rates or even protocols. SFP+ optical transceivers are capable of 10Gbe--or 6.789467xx or whatever--it is all set by the driving circuitry in the gear at each end. So ALL SFP+ transceivers can also run at 1Gbe. John will explain more. 1 hour ago, R1200CL said: The data sheets for SPF+ modules specifies supported data rates. No, they specify maximum rates supported. As mentioned, one could design a circuit to plug an SFP transceiver into and transfer any sort of LVDS date at any unique and bizarre rate--as long as you are doing the same at both ends. 1 hour ago, R1200CL said: If that PHY really supports 10 GB transfer rate by SFP+, just say so. We would have said so if it did. The EtherREGEN uses a 7-port Gigabit switch chip with integrated PHYs. 10/100/1000 Mbps only. No 10Gbe! 1 hour ago, R1200CL said: Looking forward to John’s post. He is typing it now. I know it is hard, but please be patient. It will be in reply to you in one of the other there or four threads where you are excitedly postulating. ambre and R1200CL 1 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
R1200CL Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 16 minutes ago, Superdad said: No, not simple as that! SFP/SFP+ optical transceivers do not have clocks, do not negotiate data rates, do care about data rates or even protocols. SFP+ optical transceivers are capable of 10Gbe--or 6.789467xx or whatever--it is all set by the driving circuitry in the gear at each end. So ALL SFP+ transceivers can also run at 1Gbe. 16 minutes ago, Superdad said: No, they specify maximum rates supported. As mentioned, one could design a circuit to plug an SFP transceiver into and transfer any sort of LVDS date at any unique and bizarre rate--as long as you are doing the same at both ends. Thanks. This indicates that a (two) 10GB specified SFP+ module actually will or can work in a SFP port. No matter what articles on the net says. So @AfterDark. plan of making a compatibility list is probably the only way to go. Looking forward to John’s post. ambre 1 Link to comment
Superdad Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, R1200CL said: This indicates that a (two) 10GB specified SFP+ module actually will or can work in a SFP port. No matter what articles on the net says. So @AfterDark. plan of making a compatibility list is probably the only way to go. "Compatibility list" is really not necessary. All you need to do--if you wish to use a pair of SFP+ fiber optic transceivers in a device whose SFP port is 1Gbe-only (such as EtherREGEN, opticalModule, opticalRendu, etc.)--is to be certain that the cage at the OTHER end (switch typically) is also a 1GBe-only SFP port and is NOT a device that supports 10GBe (so-called "SFP+ port"). The connections are all electrically the same between SFP and SFP+. And the transceiver modules themselves do not negotiate anything. It is all about the devices you plug them into! ambre 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
R1200CL Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 ....aha. Then the Mikrotik with EtherRegen combination won’t work. Great. But the old Cisco 2960 will. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 41 minutes ago, Superdad said: "Compatibility list" is really not necessary. All you need to do--if you wish to use a pair of SFP+ fiber optic transceivers in a device whose SFP port is 1Gbe-only (such as EtherREGEN, opticalModule, opticalRendu, etc.)--is to be certain that the cage at the OTHER end (switch typically) is also a 1GBe-only SFP port and is NOT a device that supports 10GBe (so-called "SFP+ port"). The connections are all electrically the same between SFP and SFP+. And the transceiver modules themselves do not negotiate anything. It is all about the devices you plug them into! But 1Gb SFPs won’t do 10Gb in 10Gb ports. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Superdad Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said: But 1Gb SFPs won’t do 10Gb in 10Gb ports. That is correct. But only because the performance of their circuits are not up to the speed. The Computer Audiophile 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Just now, Superdad said: That is correct. But only because the performance of their circuits are not up to the speed. There must be something in the SFP+ telling the switch that it handles 10Gb, else the switch would just try to send 10Gb in a 1Gb SFP. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Superdad Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: There must be something in the SFP+ telling the switch that it handles 10Gb, else the switch would just try to send 10Gb in a 1Gb SFP. Nope. Please refer to John's full explanation here: UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
JohnSwenson Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: There must be something in the SFP+ telling the switch that it handles 10Gb, else the switch would just try to send 10Gb in a 1Gb SFP. See the post Alex shared. It talks about the pin on the connector that is grounded on the SFP, an SFP+ port can apply a pull up on that port, when SFP is inserted it will be pulled down, an SFP+ will not pull it down so the switch can if it wants to, switch the speed. A switch with SFP+ port is free to either run at just 10Gb, have an external mechanism to change the speed (physical switch, web page configuration etc) or use the above property of SFP modules. John S. Link to comment
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