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Anyone have a clue how to stop Audirvana from sorting  artists in a way that uses the second word in the artists name for the sorting position?

 

Example, Pearl Jam is in the Js, as is Mick Jagger. However, Jaime Laredo is also in the Js. I can't make sense of it. 

 

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Your tagging are not the same for Artist and Album Artist...

 

Make tag editing panel appear on the right side...

click an album not sorted like you want by clicking that artist name,

then edit the name of artist or album artist to the way you wanted it sorted...

 

 

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13 minutes ago, RunHomeSlow said:

Your tagging are not the same for Artist and Album Artist...

 

Make tag editing panel appear on the right side...

click an album not sorted like you want by clicking that artist name,

then edit the name of artist or album artist to the way you wanted it sorted...

 

 

1.png

 

2.png

 

3.png

Thanks for the info. This is what I can't understand though. Nobody would every write Pearl Jam as Jam, Pearl. Yet, in Audirvana it's there for "Sort As." When I look at my tags for Artist and Album Artist they all say Pearl Jam. 

 

Screen Shot 2020-10-02 at 7.16.43 PM.png

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9 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Thanks for the info. This is what I can't understand though. Nobody would every write Pearl Jam as Jam, Pearl. Yet, in Audirvana it's there for "Sort As." When I look at my tags for Artist and Album Artist they all say Pearl Jam. 

 

Screen Shot 2020-10-02 at 7.16.43 PM.png

 

I have noticed the same thing in Audirvana for Windows and this behavior in Audirvana is clearly wrong.  For example, for Alice Cooper albums, I have the metadata tags Artist, Artist Sort, Album Artist, and Album Artist Sort all populated as "Alice Cooper" and yet Audirvana files them under Cooper.

 

Audirvana should (but doesn't) first look at the "Artist Sort" field for sorting Artist and the "Album Artist Sort" field for sorting Album Artist.  If the "Artist Sort" field and the "Album Artist Sort" field are blank, then Audirvana should sort the Artist and Album Artist fields as they are written.

 

I have posted this issue on the Audirvana forum here:  https://community.audirvana.com/t/sorting-artists-and-album-artists/18384.  Should @damien78read this -- please look into this issue.

 

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9 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Nobody would every write Pearl Jam as Jam, Pearl. Yet, in Audirvana it's there for "Sort As."

Aurirvana user here.

Audirvana do not write anything in the SortArtist tag, thus someone else wrote it there .... try to check the original file.

I can say that metadata from Qobuz, PrestoClassical, HDTracks and other are mostly a real mess

I use Yate to edit metadata and I built a macro that erase everything from metadata (except tracks titles) .... to stay safe ...

Stefano

 

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.... if you find that SortArtist is wrong it’s easy to change the value all over your db without the need to find every album.

Just search for the Artist, in the search result panel click on the Artist, then open the metadata editing area on the right, only Artist Name and “sort as”  will be shown, change the value for “sort as”.

This will change the “sort as” value for the Artist all over your db.

... very easy

Stefano

 

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2 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

Aurirvana user here.

Audirvana do not write anything in the SortArtist tag, thus someone else wrote it there .... try to check the original file.

I can say that metadata from Qobuz, PrestoClassical, HDTracks and other are mostly a real mess

I use Yate to edit metadata and I built a macro that erase everything from metadata (except tracks titles) .... to stay safe ...

This is interesting. 
 

I looked at the tags through JRiver and found no Artist Sort tag. 
 

Given that I’ve had nearly ever HiFi platform scan these files, it’s possible one of them added such a tag. However, Audirvana is the only one to use this tag because Pearl Jam is always under the Ps. 
 

Are you 100% sure Audirvana didn’t write this tag?

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12 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

However, Audirvana is the only one to use this tag

To better explain ....

in flac files the ArtistSort tag exists

if it is filled then Audirvana will consider it and use it.

it is sufficient that only one album has this characteristic, then the value in the Audirvana db will be changed and will have value for all the albums of that Artist (even if the other albums do not have that value)

this is because in the Audirvana db that Artist is one (and only one) index

 

 

Stefano

 

My audio system

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13 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

To better explain ....

in flac files the ArtistSort tag exists

if it is filled then Audirvana will consider it and use it.

it is sufficient that only one album has this characteristic, then the value in the Audirvana db will be changed and will have value for all the albums of that Artist (even if the other albums do not have that value)

this is because in the Audirvana db that Artist is one (and only one) index

 

 

Thanks!

 

Now I need to look through 100+ Pearl Jam albums for the tag, and 20,000 other albums 😫

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.... a hint to speed up this “terrific” task ...

maybe you have MinimServer installed somewhere.

Minimserver has a nice feature to analyze which tags are filled with.

Go to Properties menu of Minimserver, go to Advanced tab.

At the bottom of that tab you’ll find the writeAllTags property,

fill it with the path/name of a .txt file,

save and launch the rescan of the library.

At the end of the rescan you’ll find the .txt file filled with all the tags used in your archive.

Search for ArtistSort tag and you’ll find which ArtistSort-Artist is affected by the issue ....

 

 

DAC1B118-B02A-46B7-981C-8F5101892654.jpeg

Stefano

 

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7 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I looked at the tags through JRiver and found no Artist Sort tag. 

 

You need a better tagger.  I use MP3tag -- it has "Artist Sort" and "Album Artist Sort".  If using a Mac, you'll need to find something else -- Kid3?  Musicbrainz Picard?

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

To better explain ....

in flac files the ArtistSort tag exists

if it is filled then Audirvana will consider it and use it.

it is sufficient that only one album has this characteristic, then the value in the Audirvana db will be changed and will have value for all the albums of that Artist (even if the other albums do not have that value)

this is because in the Audirvana db that Artist is one (and only one) index

 

 

 

I use Audirvana for Windows.  Audirvana does not use the Artist Sort metadata tag within the file. If ii had, the sort order would be correct.  Instead, Audirvana keeps it's own database.  By default, the "sort as" in Audirvana is sometimes wrong. Yes, it can be changed from within Audirvana but if you have to do this for a lot of Artists, it is simply monotonous.  The default "sort as" in Audirvana should be corrected and Audirvana should be programmed to read the Artist Sort file tag (as well as the Album Artist Sort file tag).

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3 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

You need a better tagger.  I use MP3tag -- it has "Artist Sort" and "Album Artist Sort".  If using a Mac, you'll need to find something else -- Kid3?  Musicbrainz Picard?

 

 

 

 

@The Computer Audiophile, I just realized the tags you are looking for are not in the file.  The "sort as" field exists only in the Audirvana database.  The Artist Sort and Album Artist Sort file tags are ignored by Audirvana.

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1 hour ago, lucretius said:

 

@The Computer Audiophile, I just realized the tags you are looking for are not in the file.  The "sort as" field exists only in the Audirvana database.  The Artist Sort and Album Artist Sort file tags are ignored by Audirvana.

This sounds right. 
 

@damien78 How can I get Audirvana to work properly without going through 300,000 tracks manually?

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9 hours ago, lucretius said:

The Artist Sort

the tag name is ArtistSort and not Artist Sort ..... no spaces between the two words

The ArtistSort tag is a Vorbis standard for flac (and other formats), "Artist Sort" is a custom tag, a space make the difference ....

Here the structure of Vorbis standard tags (among others)

https://2manyrobots.com/YateResources/InAppHelp/TagMappingTable.html

(find Sort Artist on the left column "Field", for that row you'll find in the fifth column "Vorbis"  the tag name ARTISTSORT)

As already said: if ArtistSort tag exist (ie is filled) then Audirvana will copy it in sort_name (displayed in the UI as "sort as") db field (attribute of Audirvana db index Artist).

As Artist is an index then the attribute sort_name can be only one ... of course

here attached the two views of the Audirvana db (sqlite)

Artist index structure

Artist index conent (in my db)

 

Would you like to go deep in the Audirvana db you can download the SQLITE Browser (end editor) here

https://sqlitebrowser.org/dl/

... be careful, open the db in read only mode if you are not used to this tool

 

A-db-structure.jpeg

A-db-content.jpeg

Stefano

 

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2 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

the tag name is ArtistSort and not Artist Sort ..... no spaces between the two words

The ArtistSort tag is a Vorbis standard for flac (and other formats), "Artist Sort" is a custom tag, a space make the difference ....

 

I know this.  Mp3tag, like other taggers, displays a common name like Artist Sort rather than the technical name ARTISTSORT (for track artist sort order in Vorbis Comments) or TSOP (for track artist sort order in ID3).

 

 

2 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

As already said: if ArtistSort tag exist (ie is filled) then Audirvana will copy it in sort_name (displayed in the UI as "sort as") db field (attribute of Audirvana db index Artist).

As Artist is an index then the attribute sort_name can be only one ...

 

It is possible that Audirvana does copy the ARTISTSORT file tag and populate the "sort as" field in the Audirvana database the first time it encounters a new artist.  However, thereafter, Audirvana ignores the ARTISTSORT file tag.

 

 

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