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Thought on speaker cable length and (coiling the extra length)?


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So my dealer is insisting that I need a 10' (3 meters) minimum speaker cable length (Naim cables) to make sure they work correctly... and furthermore telling me that I should not coil the extra length, but rather fold it back and forth (in an S pattern) if need be... Can I get away with 1 meter or maybe 1.25 meter length? or do I need to go all the way to 3 meters?  Seems a bit extreme, or is it "sound" advice?

 

 

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What amp? If it's older Naim gear, 3.5m and right capacitance and inductance is a requirement as it acts as the Zobel and will keep your amp from overheating (and no Litz cable!). Many say the newer amps you can get away with shorter, but I wouldn't go under 2m personally. The longer you go the better it will sound - I think 5-7m is the sweet spot. I have 25' of Chord Rumor 2 with my Naim 160; one side I need all of that in order to go around some French doors, and the other the speaker is literally a foot and half away from the amp. I have the extra all taped up underneath the media cabinet. I think the fold thing is a bit of Naim myth - in fact one very knowledgeable member on the forum says it's bunk, and it's perfectly fine to coil. If going with NACA5 a heat gun or hair dryer is great at getting it to bend. 

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LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: 10Gtek FMC>Naim Unitiqute V1>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. 

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Just now, charlesphoto said:

What amp? If it's older Naim gear, 3.5m and right capacitance and inductance is a requirement as it acts as the Zobel and will keep your amp from overheating (and no Litz cable!). Many say the newer amps you can get away with shorter, but I wouldn't go under 2m personally. The longer you go the better it will sound - I think 5-7m is the sweet spot. I have 25' of Chord Rumor 2 with my Naim 160; one side I need all of that and the other the speaker is literally a foot and half away from the amp. I have it all taped up underneath the media cabinet. I think the fold thing is a bit of Naim myth - in fact one very knowledgeable member on the forum says it's bunk, and it's perfectly fine to coil. If going with NACA5 a heat gun or hair dryer is great at getting it to bend. 

 

the one in my signature block... McIntosh mc462..   I had assumed this was an issue with Naim's own amps...  

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1 minute ago, 992Sam said:

 

the one in my signature block... McIntosh mc462..   I had assumed this was an issue with Naim's own amps...  

Oh sorry. Yeah, no idea about Mc's. One piece of advice - you can always make a cable shorter but you can't make it longer! I've run into this before where I got something short and then my setup changes and need longer. Just food for thought. Why NACA5? Is it a known partner to McIntosh? 

SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)>

LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: 10Gtek FMC>Naim Unitiqute V1>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. 

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42 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Oh sorry. Yeah, no idea about Mc's. One piece of advice - you can always make a cable shorter but you can't make it longer! I've run into this before where I got something short and then my setup changes and need longer. Just food for thought. Why NACA5? Is it a known partner to McIntosh? 

 

my dealer is both a Mc and Naim dealer, and must have a ton of it laying around, so when I bought my XR50 speakers, he threw 20 feet of speaker cable into the deal and two spade connections on each end...  I don't argue with free..   Think I'll regret going with that? Should I be looking at a Mc Friendly cable? 

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2 hours ago, 992Sam said:

 

my dealer is both a Mc and Naim dealer, and must have a ton of it laying around, so when I bought my XR50 speakers, he threw 20 feet of speaker cable into the deal and two spade connections on each end...  I don't argue with free..   Think I'll regret going with that? Should I be looking at a Mc Friendly cable? 

 

No, I'd try the NACA5 first and see what you think. It's a good cable, and not inexpensive new. I would prefer it on my 160, but I needed something in white I could easily run around trim and NACA wasn't it (plus 50' new would have been probably over a grand) and my dealer had a 25' pari of the Rumor 2 for $175 and its always sounded fine to me. Yeah, you might want to poke about on some other forums to find out the minimum length of cable you can get away with on the McIntosh. 

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LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: 10Gtek FMC>Naim Unitiqute V1>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. 

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9 hours ago, 992Sam said:

So my dealer is insisting that I need a 10' (3 meters) minimum speaker cable length (Naim cables) to make sure they work correctly... and furthermore telling me that I should not coil the extra length, but rather fold it back and forth (in an S pattern) if need be... Can I get away with 1 meter or maybe 1.25 meter length? or do I need to go all the way to 3 meters?  Seems a bit extreme, or is it "sound" advice?

 

 

 

Not coiling is a good advice as far as I know.

 

Buying more cable is just him getting better value for money from his sale.

 

 

If you want more resistance for that same 1 meter just buy a low capacitance cable with a smaller diameter like the DNM:

 

http://www.dnm.co.uk/cablesdetail.html

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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5 hours ago, semente said:

 

Not coiling is a good advice as far as I know.

 

Buying more cable is just him getting better value for money from his sale.

 

 

If you want more resistance for that same 1 meter just buy a low capacitance cable with a smaller diameter like the DNM:

 

http://www.dnm.co.uk/cablesdetail.html

 

I don't think it's about him selling, as he's throwing it into the deal...  I actually asked him to give me less cable and he said, "Naim Recommends a certain length" 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, 992Sam said:

 

I don't think it's about him selling, as he's throwing it into the deal...  I actually asked him to give me less cable and he said, "Naim Recommends a certain length" 

 

 

 

I see. It's naim pushing a certain length.

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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6 minutes ago, semente said:

 

I see. It's naim pushing a certain length.

 

right, so you think it's still an economic issue...  there is no benefit to longer than needed?  I just need 6' or so.

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Vintage Naim amps don’t have a Zobel network, so the speaker cable acts as one, so therefore needs to be a certain spec and minimum length. Not so sure if this is an issue with newer amps and integrateds, but most dealers play it safe. At least on vintage amps, the longer the length the better the sound. Anyway, at $25/ft I would take it and try it! Again, best to consult other McIntosh owners in regard to cable choices and length. 

SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)>

LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: 10Gtek FMC>Naim Unitiqute V1>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. 

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59 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Vintage Naim amps don’t have a Zobel network, so the speaker cable acts as one, so therefore needs to be a certain spec and minimum length. Not so sure if this is an issue with newer amps and integrateds, but most dealers play it safe. At least on vintage amps, the longer the length the better the sound. Anyway, at $25/ft I would take it and try it! Again, best to consult other McIntosh owners in regard to cable choices and length. 

 

So the amplifier is not even a Naim and thus has a zobel network?

Then why worry about cable length?

@992Sam just buy what you need...and take your partner out for dinner.

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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Just now, semente said:

 

So the amplifier is not even a Naim and thus has a zobel network?

Then why worry about cable length?

@992Sam just buy what you need...and take your partner out for dinner.

 

well, now that we know the reason behind the length issue (a rare thing in audiophile land), I am going to do just that...  I will have it cut to 6'.. 

 

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This is taken from the NAIT 5 manual:

 

Naim loudspeaker cable is correct for your system and your dealer will make up leads to suit your equipment installation. The leads should each be at least 3.5 metres long and of equal length. The recommended maximum is 20 metres. Loudspeaker leads are, like interconnect leads, directional, and should be connected so that the printed arrow points towards the speakers.

 

The bit in red is dung.

Yes, Naim can write dung too.

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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4 minutes ago, semente said:

This is taken from the NAIT 5 manual:

 

Naim loudspeaker cable is correct for your system and your dealer will make up leads to suit your equipment installation. The leads should each be at least 3.5 metres long and of equal length. The recommended maximum is 20 metres. Loudspeaker leads are, like interconnect leads, directional, and should be connected so that the printed arrow points towards the speakers.

 

The bit in red is dung.

Yes, Naim can write dung too.

 

A very controversial topic, and one which I wish there was some measurement science for so we can put it to rest....  that said, I've instructed my dealer to cut the chord to 2 meters...  I really don't need all that stiff cable laying around my room... 

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I wouldn't worry about direction. My NACA is so old that there's no arrows, or they all wore off. The dealer put straight bananas on one end and 45 degree ones on the other, so I use the straight into the amp. Looking at the solders though just now, I see a bit of corrosion, so time to redo I guess(picked up used for $125 from my dealer about twelve years ago) . Here are the NACA 5 specs. And modern Naim amps do have a Zobel, but still a good idea to use low cap and low inductance for sound reasons. Again, McIntosh might be a whole different beast. 

 

NACA5 specifications are as follows:

Capacitance: 16pF per metre
Resistance: 9 milliohms per metre
Inductance: 1uH per metre

Minimum length: 3.5 metres per channel
Maximum length: 20 metres per channel (note that longer lengths can be used up to around 25 m but then some small signal loss must be expected)
 

 

SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)>

LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: 10Gtek FMC>Naim Unitiqute V1>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. 

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