Josh Mound Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 View full article 🔊 The Best Version Of... 🎧 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Thanks so much @JoshM. I can't believe you sold your Yggdrasil! Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post billg Posted September 30, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 30, 2020 After teaching modern politics I'd need 2 cats too. Josh Mound, mourip, PYP and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment
ted_b Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Great read, @JoshM I had a Forssell dac in my home back in 2010, and remember it's sound as wonderful and musical. I think I was put off by its limited inputs (for residential, of course), but don't remember that much from its visit 10 yrs ago. I assume Fred and co has gotten even more of the music captured now. BTW, DSD is not an "off-the beaten-path" format. 😀 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
bbosler Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Yes sir, pro audio hardware is a wonderful sounding, often ignored bargain in high end. Think about it,, the recordings you are listening to are created, mixed, mastered, using these devices. How can they make excellent sounding recordings if the hardware can't keep up. I've used various models over the past 10 years or so, switching more just to try something different than being displeased with any. Many (most?) pro audio interfaces have built in analog to digital too if you want to digitize your Vinyl. A few I can recommend in no particular order Linx Hilo Apogee Symphony RME various models and my current favorite.. Antelope Eclipse 384. Why -inputs and outputs up to 384K over USB, 192K other digital ins/outs -Accepts a 10 MHz reference clock -has very high quality clocks built in, something Antelope is known for -high quality relay controlled step attenuators for volume control on line level outputs so also a high quality preamp -same volume configuration on dual headphone amps with a low enough output impedance (.3 ohms) and a few watts of power that will drive my horns directly = no power amp needed -being a DIY guy .. it also has separate power supplies for digital and analog that I replaced with high quality external linear DC supplies, but sounds great with stock supply. -sounds FANTASTIC This was an $8K unit when new but last years model so goes for around a third of that. A real bargain,,, no DSD if that is important to you , or convert to PCM in software like HQplayer Josh Mound 1 see my system at Audiogon https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/768 Link to comment
Geoff13 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Hello, Lovely review. So which one did you end up buying or did I miss that? I have the Benchmark dac3b. Best regards Geoff Link to comment
Popular Post OldBigEars Posted October 2, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 2, 2020 6 hours ago, Geoff13 said: Hello, Lovely review. So which one did you end up buying or did I miss that? I have the Benchmark dac3b. Best regards Geoff I think he kept one for his left brain and the other for his right? :) Veri and Nikhil 2 Tidal / Qobuz--> Roon--> Fios Gigabit--> Netgear Prosafe GS105 --> Supra 8-->EtherRegen --> Fiber--> opticalRendu / CI Audio LPS --> Curious Evolved Link --> Chord Qutest--> AQ Water --> Belles Aria Integrated--> AQ Robin Hood--> Kudos Super 20's Link to comment
audiobomber Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Thanks Josh, great review. Comparison with a well known favourite like the Yggdrasil is highly informative. Too bad you won't be able to do so in the future. I looked at the Solaris when I was shopping for a DAC recently but I needed both XLR and RCA outputs. You should fix this sentence: > Those horns also sound slightly deeper (yet flatter) on the Crane Song and slightly closer (yet more 3D) on the Solaris. Josh Mound 1 Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
Josh Mound Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 On 9/30/2020 at 4:44 PM, billg said: After teaching modern politics I'd need 2 cats too. Given my stress level these days, I could use a few dozen more. On 10/1/2020 at 12:51 AM, bbosler said: Yes sir, pro audio hardware is a wonderful sounding, often ignored bargain in high end. Think about it,, the recordings you are listening to are created, mixed, mastered, using these devices. How can they make excellent sounding recordings if the hardware can't keep up. I've used various models over the past 10 years or so, switching more just to try something different than being displeased with any. Many (most?) pro audio interfaces have built in analog to digital too if you want to digitize your Vinyl. A few I can recommend in no particular order Linx Hilo Apogee Symphony RME various models and my current favorite.. Antelope Eclipse 384. Why -inputs and outputs up to 384K over USB, 192K other digital ins/outs -Accepts a 10 MHz reference clock -has very high quality clocks built in, something Antelope is known for -high quality relay controlled step attenuators for volume control on line level outputs so also a high quality preamp -same volume configuration on dual headphone amps with a low enough output impedance (.3 ohms) and a few watts of power that will drive my horns directly = no power amp needed -being a DIY guy .. it also has separate power supplies for digital and analog that I replaced with high quality external linear DC supplies, but sounds great with stock supply. -sounds FANTASTIC This was an $8K unit when new but last years model so goes for around a third of that. A real bargain,,, no DSD if that is important to you , or convert to PCM in software like HQplayer The Hilo will be an upcoming review! 7 hours ago, audiobomber said: Thanks Josh, great review. Comparison with a well known favourite like the Yggdrasil is highly informative. Too bad you won't be able to do so in the future. I looked at the Solaris when I was shopping for a DAC recently but I needed both XLR and RCA outputs. You should fix this sentence: > Those horns also sound slightly deeper (yet flatter) on the Crane Song and slightly closer (yet more 3D) on the Solaris. Thank you. I just fixed that sentence. Getting rid of the Yggy was a tough call. I'm debating picking up one of the "GS" Yggys at some point, particularly if I can find a used one. I suspect the A1 analog stage with the updated A2 firmware might be the best sounding model. But there are logical and financial limits to DAC hoarding. Haha. 🔊 The Best Version Of... 🎧 Link to comment
matthias Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 @JoshM Thanks for the review. The Solaris wrung more detail out of the recordings than the Yggy but lacked its slam. The Forssell was even smoother than the Yggy but didn’t have its front-to-back depth. Sorry , but it is not clear to me in which points the Yggdrasil lacked in comparison to both. Can you please shed some more light on this? And was your Yggdrasil equipped with Unison? Thanks Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Josh Mound Posted October 8, 2020 Author Share Posted October 8, 2020 16 hours ago, matthias said: @JoshM Thanks for the review. The Solaris wrung more detail out of the recordings than the Yggy but lacked its slam. The Forssell was even smoother than the Yggy but didn’t have its front-to-back depth. Sorry , but it is not clear to me in which points the Yggdrasil lacked in comparison to both. Can you please shed some more light on this? And was your Yggdrasil equipped with Unison? Thanks Matt Hi Matt, My Yggy had the Gen5 USB, though I often used it with various USB to SPDIF converters. The Yggy did front-to-back depth better than either DAC. Likewise with bass slam, though its edge over the Crane Song was relatively slight. However, I think both the Crane Song and Forssell out-resolved the Yggy, the former by a bigger margin. Being perhaps the most “analog”-like DAC I’ve heard, the Forssell is smoother than the Yggy. The Forssell also had a wider soundstage than the Yggy, though not by a lot. To be clear, each of those three DACs are excellent. I could be happy with any one of them as my only DAC. Comparing the Crane Song and Forssell to the Yggy was meant to convey just how good they are, in that I still preferred the Yggy to the previous DS DACs I reviewed. It wasn’t meant to be a criticism of the Yggdrasil. I’d never tell someone to throw out their Yggy in the expectation of the Crane Song or Forssell being a knockout upgrade. Differences between good DACs just aren’t that big. However, for someone shopping for a DAC, I’d advise checking out the Solaris and MDAC-2a, and I’d personally take either over the previous DACs I’ve reviewed here, such as the RME ADI-2 DAC, which I found to be substantially worse than either the Crane Song or Forssell. matthias 1 🔊 The Best Version Of... 🎧 Link to comment
matthias Posted October 8, 2020 Share Posted October 8, 2020 15 hours ago, JoshM said: My Yggy had the Gen5 USB, though I often used it with various USB to SPDIF converters. In the case you use an USB source I can imagine that an Yggy with Unison might play on par with both DACs under review. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
taipan254 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 Hi @JoshM - I really enjoyed this review. Up until this point, I had never heard of Crane Song and, since reading your piece, I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. In particular, I'm intrigued with Dave's focus on Jitter. Reading a review of another made-for-studio DAC (Weiss DAC 501 from Hi-Fi News): Quote There's a note buried in Weiss's technical white paper alluding to the DAC50x's use of an asymmetric/off-centre re-clocking frequency (195kHz) – a technique also employed by Hegel. In this instance the suppression of correlated jitter is also state-of-the-art at <10psec over all CD-192kHz sample rates, although a trace of some noise-like/uncorrelated jitter remains [see Graph 2]. PM Similarly, the Crane Song Manual says: Quote The jitter measured for the clock, between our auditory spectrum of 10Hz - 20kHz, is typically around 0.045ps (44fs, femtoseconds)! Assuming these jitter figures are apples-to-apples (who knows! jitter is a spectrum, after all), it would seem the Crane Song's attenuation of Jitter is FAR better than that provided by the Weiss. I feel like the upsampling to 211khz and implementation of ASRC for Crane Song vs. the 195khz for Weiss may have something to do with this. I know our forum isn't measurement focused, but I'd love any perspective you have on Dave's approach to Jitter versus others if you have them. Regardless, thanks for opening my eyes up to the potential value provided by professional gear! Link to comment
mForMusic Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Hi @JoshM Thanks for this very informative review. Did you compare the Solaris' own USB against SPDIF/AES via the Matrix or Mutec converter? Some people seem to hate the internal USB implementation while others actually prefer it over the other inputs. So I'm curious what your impression is. Link to comment
Josh Mound Posted November 27, 2020 Author Share Posted November 27, 2020 10 hours ago, mForMusic said: Hi @JoshM Thanks for this very informative review. Did you compare the Solaris' own USB against SPDIF/AES via the Matrix or Mutec converter? Some people seem to hate the internal USB implementation while others actually prefer it over the other inputs. So I'm curious what your impression is. I find the USB for the Solaris to be flat dynamically and slightly more “digital” than when the Solaris is fed through an external USB to SPDIF converter. Schiit’s now-defunct Eitr, which can often be had for around $100 used, sounds very good with the Solaris, IMHO. It gives it a somewhat rounder presentation without sacrificing detail. mForMusic 1 🔊 The Best Version Of... 🎧 Link to comment
mav52 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Has anyone compared these dacs to the Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Series 2 with the Alpha USB. I'm looking at adding the newer Yiggy or the Solaris or a used Berkeley. I've heard the newer Yiggy but never heard a Solaris and Ive only heard the Berkeley Ref dac., All are nice sounding and meet my needs. The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
Josh Mound Posted December 11, 2020 Author Share Posted December 11, 2020 On 12/9/2020 at 6:41 PM, mav52 said: Has anyone compared these dacs to the Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Series 2 with the Alpha USB. I'm looking at adding the newer Yiggy or the Solaris or a used Berkeley. I've heard the newer Yiggy but never heard a Solaris and Ive only heard the Berkeley Ref dac., All are nice sounding and meet my needs. I’m actually working on a review comparing the Alpha to these two DACs! mav52 1 🔊 The Best Version Of... 🎧 Link to comment
Josh Mound Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 I've posted an update to this DAC review (and several others) for those interested: 🔊 The Best Version Of... 🎧 Link to comment
nxrm Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Thanks for this extremely thor On 12/10/2020 at 10:13 PM, Josh Mound said: I’m actually working on a review comparing the Alpha to these two DACs! Thanks for your review on those Forrsell and Crane Song DACs. I've yet to decide on a stereo DAC for my main speakers. But as I have three Rythmik F12 subs, I thought instead of going with the Merging Hapi or Okto DAC 8 Pro 8 channels DACs. But how likely would either sound as good as these or other higher end stereo DACs? Simple economics impacting parts quality per DAC channel and the rest of the fabrication costs would say no. For example, the Hapi versus Merging's own NADAC. There was a likely very cost effective Forsell MDAC-4 four channel DAC. The four channels would do for my subs and I could get a separate stereo DAC for my mains. The MDAC-4 also had the 26dbu output I prefer for level matching in case of gain loss. But since Fred retired they are virtually impossible to find. Link to comment
Josh Mound Posted January 4 Author Share Posted January 4 On 12/31/2023 at 4:10 AM, nxrm said: Thanks for this extremely thor Thanks for your review on those Forrsell and Crane Song DACs. I've yet to decide on a stereo DAC for my main speakers. But as I have three Rythmik F12 subs, I thought instead of going with the Merging Hapi or Okto DAC 8 Pro 8 channels DACs. But how likely would either sound as good as these or other higher end stereo DACs? Simple economics impacting parts quality per DAC channel and the rest of the fabrication costs would say no. For example, the Hapi versus Merging's own NADAC. There was a likely very cost effective Forsell MDAC-4 four channel DAC. The four channels would do for my subs and I could get a separate stereo DAC for my mains. The MDAC-4 also had the 26dbu output I prefer for level matching in case of gain loss. But since Fred retired they are virtually impossible to find. Are you planning to use your DAC’s volume control as a preamp? If not, then a two-channel DAC could feed a preamp that has outputs for your subs, too. 🔊 The Best Version Of... 🎧 Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now