Lush^3 - Share your configuration experiences

[matthias]

6 hours ago, frederick184 said:

No, I’m saying I think A: W-Y & R-G B: B-Y-R is better.

 

With this configuration I hear all the things you said about the opposite configuration.  I checked to make sure I didn’t have it the wrong way around, and I didn’t.  With A: B-Y-R B:W-Y & R-G it sounds dull in my system.

 

Strange, but true 😊

 

 

Colin,

just out of curiosity do you use the Lush^3 with your JCAT XE USB card or with your Signature Rendu into your DAC?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

[frederick184]

2 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Colin,

just out of curiosity do you use the Lush^3 with your JCAT XE USB card or with your Signature Rendu into your DAC?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

Matt,

 

I use the Lush^3 from Signature Rendu into my DAC.

 

Colin

[FileMakerDev]

On 10/11/2020 at 8:33 AM, frederick184 said:

No, I’m saying I think A: W-Y & R-G B: B-Y-R is better.

 

I spent about half an hour enjoying this configuration last night... I agree it's preferable to the reverse, but on my system I still find A:B-Y-R, B: to be the best -- the high end is a bit more open. But I could live with either.

 

I've been trying to come up with words to describe the improvement over the Lush^2, and I think "immersive" and "holographic" come closest to doing justice to what I'm hearing. At any rate, my ears are very, very happy... and their owner is grateful for the opportunity to learn from the collective wisdom here.

[PeterSt]

For two days (from of Oct 11) I have  been listening to 

A: B-W-G, B: B-W-G

 

I liked this config, maybe better than the ones listed prior to Oct. 9 because nothing was annoying me. But spoiled as I am by now, I also did not find it really special (compared to Lush^2 sure Yes).

 

Then :

 

 

Oct 13, 2020

A: W-Y-R-G, B: W-Y-R
Please notice that this config was handed to me off-line by someone who apparently knows what he is doing. Let the man step forward so he can receive the credits. 🙂
 

 

This configuration shows an unsurpassed clarity in the highs. It is almost unbelievable that it can happen. Together with it, all the color is there (cymbals).
 

My initial description as written in the document I maintain for this:

----

I think it is a WOW. Highs (cymbals) are the best with colors. Also a mighty interesting sound. So realistic.
Skins of drums … also a WOW. So soft, so nicely developed. So colorful.

----

Yesterday I was intrigued by those "firm" highs; Earlier on, I think I told about the 6dB louder I play since the Lush^3, but this is "technically" by observing the digital attenuation I use. Yesterday I also measured and was shocked to read 95dBSPL on the meter, especially on the splashing of cymbals (A Weighed, Fast Response).

Regarding this, notice that my normal "loud level" is 90dBSPL, which is on peaks, but which is not on the sound of cymbals, that I recall. So this is really something.

Real cymbals, show 110dBSPL (measured as always at 1m / ~3ft distance). This, while a grand plays at 90dBSPL; I don't know where the limits are these days, but I start to feel lucky that the cymbals now seem to play at 95dBSPL only, because 110dBSPL would really be too loud (combined with a realistic level of piano).

 

Outside of the above, the bass is also I-don't-know how many steps forward. Here it is clear that this is all about less distortion again, referring to my earlier remark (possibly this was over at Phasure) that I had to tweak playback (XXHE) settings somewhat in order to tame somewhat higher frequency (like low mid-bass) buzzing; It is immediately clear that this now has all gone.

Looking forward to tonight's session and the 4th day into this config ...

 

Shipments from of Monday (Oct 19) will go with this configuration.

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

[John A]

Going to try this one tonight.  Can't wait!!

[FileMakerDev]

11 hours ago, PeterSt said:

I think it is a WOW. Highs (cymbals) are the best with colors. Also a mighty interesting sound. So realistic.
Skins of drums … also a WOW. So soft, so nicely developed. So colorful.

Sounds beautiful on my system -- my new favorite. Thank you! Open, clear and very musical.  Yes yes yes.

[John A]

This new config is my new favorite.  It's got all the elements to make a great sounding cable.  

[frederick184]

On 10/17/2020 at 7:24 AM, John A said:

This new config is my new favorite.  It's got all the elements to make a great sounding cable.  

Agreed.  This is my new favorite as well.  There is this urge to turn it up, as Peter said.  A lot less distortion.

 

So, @PeterSt, who gave you this configuration?  My guess is @lmitche 😊

 

Colin

[PeterSt]

7 hours ago, frederick184 said:

So, @PeterSt, who gave you this configuration?  My guess is @lmitche 😊

 

I guess your guess is right. 🙂

[magnuska]

@PeterSt thanks, I took delivery a few hours ago. Really fast delivery to Sweden. Its sounding really good at this early stage. Running the default configuration as delivered.

 

Regards Magnus🙂

[dmccombs]

On 10/20/2020 at 10:39 AM, magnuska said:

@PeterSt thanks, I took delivery a few hours ago. Really fast delivery to Sweden. Its sounding really good at this early stage. Running the default configuration as delivered.

 

Regards Magnus🙂

+1   I just got mine today.  Super fast build and shipping.  I ordered Sunday night in the US, and it was at my door Wednesday morning.

 

I am running it in the default configuration (as posted above by Peter on 10/16/2020).  I am hearing some good things already but I won't comment further until it gets 48 hours of playtime.

[PeterSt]

On 10/16/2020 at 5:55 PM, PeterSt said:

A: W-Y-R-G, B: W-Y-R

 

So for 9 days I have been playing with this configuration, and yesterday I finally decided to take notes during the listening session. The goal of this is, to see whether there's consensus about this configuration indeed. So please respond either way.

Anyway, I have no feedback of the contrary yet, from over here or over at Phasure, with actually more offline response than I'd like (it's better to have it public).

 

Note that the below is always relative to the Lush^2 I have been used to for so long. So for those not owning the Lush^2 it may not really tell much.

 

One thing always recurring is how you can easily envision the drummer sweeping a single drumstick from one cymbal to the other. Mind you, with "sweeping" I mean that it's from forehand to backhand and the other way around (the stick hits the cymbal differently for either situation).

Quite similar will be the running down the different toms the drummer possesses. This in itself will be related to the so much more colorful sound of the (tension of ! the) skins. I told about this before - this is now the most life-like when compared to the drum kit we have over here (for the purpose of comparing - believe it or not).

 

An also ever and ever recurring notice is how much variation there is in an originally perceived straight tone. There's now an unbelievable nuance-difference in about everything.

I can't explain what I am talking about, except for that it makes the longest "tracks" interesting, because of these variations. Maybe when I refer to Klaus Schulze, people can imagine how dull a 20+ minute track can be (can come across), but with my now promise that this just as well can be 20+ minutes of sheer interest. And oh, I already knew about this difference (when a long track loses my interest within a few minutes, something has to be amiss), but with the Lush^3 this has become "crazy". Anyway, take Bill Frisell and albums like Gone, just like a Train

 

and there you'd hear the effect I am talking about, although very extreme (it's just his way of doing things).

It is not vibrato as such, but the very deep and long sweeping effect of changing pitch. For effects there can even be noise-like tones, which may change an octave or two over the period of maybe 15 seconds, which "noise" just wasn't there before. Thus, via this means I try to explain how a 20+ minute track can become interesting, just because of these things may be in there too.

 

For flanger I have the very same remark, but yesterday I couldn't find an example quickly. I thought about a Rhodes (keyboard), tried a few quick Doors tracks, but the Rhodes would be too much of it. So here too, what I am talking about is the most slight nuance difference which comes forward. If I run into an example I will post it (with the idea that you can't hear it, but with the Lush^3 you will - so think of a teaser).

 

In my internal notes I added that the slight frequency changes as well as the flanger just described, must be related (or very similar) to the exponential dynamic range the Lush^3 seems to "provide". And really, I hope that someone can at least confirm this aspect (because it really seems odd to me that/how it can happen).

 

At times (depending on the track) the spaciousness regarding left/right interaction, is huge (yes, why all these superlatives ?). Elsewhere I already talked about a vastly improved stereo phase response (all comes really together when listening in the middle of the speakers, and this was not so (much) so). ... But now this also seems to imply additional stereo separation.

 

What also keeps occurring is the sheer analogues sound. I think I am referring to the drum kit's behavior(s) again, but mind you, my very very first initial response to the Lush^3 (now a month or so ago) was about the snare drum and how it was *not* profound any more (by now I would call the profoundness annoying ?). Just try to hear the color of a snare drum with snare on. This now works; previously it did not at all.

My last line in my internal comment's document refers to again Klaus Schulze, but me referring to his Synthesizer being analog. Don't ask me whether this can bring extra beauty, but somehow I made the association after playing Global Midication on this one (Wahnfried Trance 4 Motion) :

 

What I noticed before and yesterday again, is the richness of chords of an electric guitar. Of course this requires the right tracks or artist, but yesterday it was Bugs Henderson doing this so nicely. As if the stroke strings now play separately, while previously they blended (too much).

Btw, I think it was John A who talked about the same on a Lyle Lovett track.

 

[John A]

Peter I am a picture guy.  Can you shoot us a picture of this new config you like?  I think you are saying that on the A connector it's A: W-Y-R-G all in a row?  And then on the B connector it's B: W-Y-R all in a row from the red dot?  Can you please confirm?  

[PeterSt]

John, see my post a bit up, from Oct 16, 2020. The config is labeled "Oct 13, 2020" (same green text).

[John A]

Great.  This is the configuration I have been running since you posted that picture.  I agree this is the best config I have heard so far.   I am been anxiously awaiting a new post that betters this one.   😀

[lmitche]

On 10/16/2020 at 11:55 AM, PeterSt said:

Oct 13, 2020

A: W-Y-R-G, B: W-Y-R
Please notice that this config was handed to me off-line by someone who apparently knows what he is doing. Let the man step forward so he can receive the credits. 🙂

Thanks Peter. It was me. I first wrote about this Lush^2 configuration on February 25th, 2020:

 

"Yesterday a MuMetal braid was added to my .4 meter Lush 2 cable. It was initially configured as two jssg360s. That was an improvement, but something was missing. Tying all 4 ends together fixed that, and the results is more image weight and clarity across the spectrum."

 

Later on the comb on the DAC end tying the fourth shield to the others accidentally became disconnected. This wasn't noticed for a while. Later without thinking, I reconnected it and noticed a loss of SQ.  Here is a picture of the Lush ^2 cable with the modification.

 

 

Notice that the left comb is connected to the shield. And the comb on the right has sprung up in the air.

 

Realizing that the Lush^3 added a fourth layer of shielding, I got one and tried the same configuration. There is a deeper, richer image across the spectrum, especially at the top and bottom ends.

 

At first, I thought of sharing this with Peter privately to learn if he could duplicate the SQ impact. It's great to see that Peter agreed with the benefits of this configuration and has shared it with the community.

 

The mechanism at work here is a mystery to me. Is it: RFI/EMI elimination?, greater capacitance?, lower impedance? Who knows?

 

Anyway, I am open to improved configurations. Hmmm, perhaps I should try a fifth layer?

 

Enjoy,

 

Larry

 

 

[fas42]

6 hours ago, lmitche said:

 

The mechanism at work here is a mystery to me. Is it: RFI/EMI elimination?, greater capacitance?, lower impedance? Who knows?

 

Anyway, I am open to improved configurations. Hmmm, perhaps I should try a fifth layer?

 

Enjoy,

 

Larry

 

 

 

Almost certainly RFI/EMI attenuation. Most audio systems need sorting in this area, and the more one addresses every possible cause of this, the better the subjective SQ. Unfortunately, very hard to measure, and hence largely ignored ...

[PeterSt]

17 hours ago, lmitche said:

Anyway, I am open to improved configurations. Hmmm, perhaps I should try a fifth layer?

 

Haha, Larry, please no. In itself easy to do for us of course, but we must see through the coincidence of you finding this now "with consensus" configuration, while not ore than 10 configurations passed our hands in the first place (or people keep them a secret ?). So 1013 more to go ... but I myself am reluctant because it is too G-D good to waste even an hour of listening joy. I more and more am impressed by the robustness of the cymbals and I should try to play more known music expressing that.

 

17 hours ago, lmitche said:

 

The mechanism at work here is a mystery to me. Is it: RFI/EMI elimination?, greater capacitance?, lower impedance?

 

From the analog point of view (and in the end all is "analog signal" as such) it will be all of it. But what I hear - and this was in my very first post about the Lush^3 (somewhere) - is that there's more signal preserved. This is how the "Eco" designation came into play. Same power, way more output. The Eco thing is a gag of course, but this is literally how all music "feels". And because of the law of energy can not be created or destroyed, something seems to be in order like:

what was first emitted into the air (and illegally captured elsewhere on top of it) now is preserved in the signal itself, which makes the signal way more robust and this is exactly hat we hear all over.

Weren't it that ...

 

Weren't it that this is a protocol signal and I see no way of how my description above can apply.

It really is about time that I start measuring a few things, knowing that I still have that analyzer for this sitting new in an unopened box (I know, crazy, but time time time ...).

 

Great thanks, Larry !

Peter

 

 

 

 

[lmitche]

4 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

Haha, Larry, please no. In itself easy to do for us of course, but we must see through the coincidence of you finding this now "with consensus" configuration, while not ore than 10 configurations passed our hands in the first place (or people keep them a secret ?). So 1013 more to go ... but I myself am reluctant because it is too G-D good to waste even an hour of listening joy. I more and more am impressed by the robustness of the cymbals and I should try to play more known music expressing that.

 

 

From the analog point of view (and in the end all is "analog signal" as such) it will be all of it. But what I hear - and this was in my very first post about the Lush^3 (somewhere) - is that there's more signal preserved. This is how the "Eco" designation came into play. Same power, way more output. The Eco thing is a gag of course, but this is literally how all music "feels". And because of the law of energy can not be created or destroyed, something seems to be in order like:

what was first emitted into the air (and illegally captured elsewhere on top of it) now is preserved in the signal itself, which makes the signal way more robust and this is exactly hat we hear all over.

Weren't it that ...

 

Weren't it that this is a protocol signal and I see no way of how my description above can apply.

It really is about time that I start measuring a few things, knowing that I still have that analyzer for this sitting new in an unopened box (I know, crazy, but time time time ...).

 

Great thanks, Larry !

Peter

Gee Peter, I thought this cable was all about experimentation! What am I missing?

 

Yes, brush off that analyzer please.

[fds]

Any experiences from comparisons of the Lush^3 to the Sablon 2020 USB cable? Or has anyone found a configuration at which it sound similar? (I am aware that I would get three Lush^3 for the price of one Sablon 2020.)

[matthias]

4 hours ago, fds said:

Any experiences from comparisons of the Lush^3 to the Sablon 2020 USB cable? Or has anyone found a configuration at which it sound similar? (I am aware that I would get three Lush^3 for the price of one Sablon 2020.)

 

From @frederick184

 

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/sablon-usb-cable-2020-model.29912/page-6#post-682731

 

Matt

[frederick184]

Nothing like stirring the pot, dude

 

I did use the Sablon and found that I preferred it in my system.  As we know, that Lush is infinitely configurable so that may change.  

 

Colin

[matthias]

4 minutes ago, frederick184 said:

Nothing like stirring the pot, dude

 

I did use the Sablon and found that I preferred it in my system.  As we know, that Lush is infinitely configurable so that may change.  

 

Colin

 

Thanks for sharing, please keep us updated. 😃

 

Matt

[PeterSt]

15 minutes ago, frederick184 said:

As we know, that Lush is infinitely configurable so that may change.  

 

Thank you Colin.

And since you were of of the early birds, you were also sent one of the early configurations. The currently official "best one" is much better already, but since 3 days I have found a way better one myself again (this is still an official secret - haha).

After a final judgment tonight and carefully observing the properties, I will put up this config and and properties.

 

Regards,

Peter

[PeterSt]

Meanwhile I have some other kind of "sad" news ...

 

From how the Lush^2's number of configurations was calculated, I extrapolated to 1023 possibilities for the Lush^3. But I'm afraid that the number of the Lush^2 ad 255 was wrong to begin with, as it did not take into account the "&" situations, like

A: B-W, B: B-W&Y-R

 

So the past week I have been working on a program that can enumerate all the unique possibilities and this comes to 2304 different configurations. Here's an example of the last part of the output:

 

 

To me it is obvious that this is too hard to deal with, especially because we have no real logic to apply. This, while each other configuration I try myself, sounds different than the previous one (and in general discernibly different from all of the others tried to far).

 

I am now working on some kind of (web based ?) document/spreadsheet in which we can all contribute and share our attempts and findings.

I will also try to work on some automated graphical representation of what we are shield-wise actually applying. From there I hope to see "lines" of what next to attempt and what apparently never works out well (I already have a few ideas about the latter). From there we should be able to "filter" to the better solutions sooner.

 

 

Meanwhile I had made this for myself:

 

 

Which is an in itself shielded extension of the Lush^3 wires, at a length which is sufficient to reach from the back of my DAC to where I can control those switches.

 

(A: W-Y-R)

 

I have the same extension on the PC side, so I can flip the dip switches without disconnecting the cable. The connection will also stay stable, from what I have noticed so far.

The sound seems not to be influenced by these extensions, so what I do should still be representative for you out there.

 

Peter