HD800 - where to go next?

[jamesjames]

Thanks for the report. I can understand your decision to hang on to the Sennheiser combo.  Whatever it's deficiencies, it seems to have something that's hard to find elsewhere.  I've had the interesting experience lately of coming back to the HD800S and finding it somewhat muffled (!) after the uber-detailed MySphere - which always requires me to reassess all my references.  Even my HD800 seems slightly veiled by comparison.  On the other hand, the MySphere often fails to produce a convincingly natural sound.  Playback often does mirror concerts and recitals in that regard, with an inappropriate or unsatisfactory acoustic result.  A string quartet in a vast hall; an orchestra which overpowers a small room. Other experiences - live and recorded - seem just right.  I'm coming around to the understanding that I'm destined to share my home with an increasingly large family of headphones ...

[jamesjames]

I felt I had to add this note in view of my earlier comments to the effect that I preferred the HD800/S to the Utopia.  Well, I've changed my mind.  It happened in a roundabout way - partly as a result of my notes here.  In short, it occurred to me that my thoughts about the Utopia were based on my experience some years ago - I bought a pair not long after they were released - before I had any experience with crossfeed.  I'd returned to my Senns by the time I discovered crossfeed.  So I retrieved my old Utopias from long-term loan to test my own suggestions about possible combinations with the Moon and the Phonitor (both of which have crossfeed).   The result is that I find the Utopias to be transformed!  Particularly with the Phonitor.  My only earlier complaint about the Utopia (but a big one) had been my sense of flatness, a deficiency in terms of depth perspective.  And, to my surprise, some judicious tweaking of the crossfeed settings fixed that.  I still prefer the Senns without crossfeed, but with it I think the Utopias are the best I've heard.  The clear, particularly linear character of the Phonitor also seems a great fit.  My reading of the reviews of the new Utopia suggests I might find them less good, with a less incisive top end and boosted lower end.  So perhaps I've landed on my feet with the old ones and the Phonitor!

[austinpop]

I heard the new, "improved," Utopia 2022 at CanJam SoCal, and definitely felt they are an improvement over the original. In particular, they have improved areas of the OG Utopia that I found troublesome. They soundstage is larger, the treble is smoother, but without losing the clarity and transparency that was one of the Utopia's great strengths.

[jamesjames]

That's very interesting.  Do you think it would appeal even to someone like me, who likes free field/diffuse field tuning?  I find the bottom end a little exaggerated on occasion even with the old Utopia - I prefer the HD800 balance to the 800S.

[jamesjames]

And I think I need to add by way of further postscript that, on re-reading my note above, I should have written that I now think that with crossfeed the Utopia is 'among' the best I've heard.  The wider my experience with phones, the less inclined I am to think there is any 'best'.  I seem to have collected a small group of 'keeper' phones, all of which I enjoy - the Utopia is now in the set!  But the HD800 and 800S are both still there, as is the MySphere 3.2.  Each of them seems to offer something of value not offered by the others.  I'd now be sorry to be w/o any of them.  Perhaps the only exception to this is that I do seem to prefer dynamic drivers.  None of the SR-009S, HE1000se, Susvara or Elite has had any particular appeal.

[jamesjames]

I've now heard the new Utopia.  I haven't had it had home, but did have some peace and quiet, and my own music, and a decent system. It does seem darker than the old, but with very similar character I think (although the difference is quite marked).  I don't find it any improvement - a bit polite I think. Of more interest to me, in fact, was how it caused me to focus once again on the general Utopia sound.  Without crossfeed it remains flat and unnatural to me.  With crossfeed, as I've mentioned, I find it very good (both old and new).  But going back to the HD800S, I'm struck once again how much better it seems - by which I mean natural with acoustic instruments (even without crossfeed!). I came across an interview some years ago with Alex G of Sennheiser, who explained his aim with the HD800 was to engineer a sense of distance from the performance space, in an effort to recreate the experience of the listener at a concert or recital. I'm more convinced than ever that he was on the right track.  I know some are skeptical of the legendary scale of the HD800/S image, but it does seem to me to be at the heart of the HD800/S sound.  For my money, phones which don't create that sense of distance (or can't be made to create it with crossfeed) simply sound 'wrong'.  They can be spectacular, serving up super-stereo and tonal richness that's generally available only to the piano tuner with his (or her) head actually in the piano.  But that's not really what I'm after with headphones.

[jamesjames]

I hadn't intended to add anything here - I know I've already gone on at some length about my own preferences ... But I felt compelled to mention briefly that a recent acquisition has caused me to re-evaluate all my earlier experience with phones.  The Audio Technica ATH-ADX5000 was something I had read about with some interest. I recently purchased a pair (they're considerably less frightening in terms of price than other 'totl' phones). They're astoundingly good. In my opinion they're significantly better than any other phones I've owned (and I've owned and enjoyed the Stax SR-009S, Hifiman HE1000SE, Sennheiser HD800/S, Meze Empyrean/Elite, MySphere 3.2, Focal Utopia and other dynamics, planars and estats). They give away nothing in speed or detail to any estat or planar; they deliver more detail than the Utopia or MySphere.  They deliver more texture and dynamic life than the HD800/S. They're simply stunning.  If you have ever enjoyed the sophistication of the 'audiophile style' of the HD800/S, you really should try the ADX5000.

[Kelly]

Thanks for the heads up about the Audio Technica, I am considering getting back into headphones and this one is very appealing. It’s hard to believe that $2k has become reasonable sounding but I suppose time marches on…

[jamesjames]

Yes, I know what you mean ... I did say 'less frightening' ...

[davide256]

On 3/3/2023 at 6:09 PM, Kelly said:

Thanks for the heads up about the Audio Technica, I am considering getting back into headphones and this one is very appealing. It’s hard to believe that $2k has become reasonable sounding but I suppose time marches on…

Kind of more unreasonable when you need to buy a separate ($$$) headphone amplifier to get the most out of a headphone choice. Miss headphones like the Stax SR5 that can be driven  with an adaptor off your existing main system amp investment, RAAL SR1A at $3k is far easier to justify for me to justify as future purchase because you can do so.

[jamesjames]

I think the AT can be had for less than the RAAL and many Stax phones.  It runs single ended from a good integrated very nicely (particularly as it has high load impedance).  So it doesn't seem a bad deal in context ...

[jamesjames]

Just a short note to correct my post above.  I wrote that the Meze Elite didn't hold any particular appeal.  That should have been a reference to the Empyrean.  In fact, I think the Elite is very good indeed - as outlined in my response to austinpop's review on this site.