Thoughts on keeping it all on all the time vs using standby / off?

[PeterSt]

Of course totally depending on your specific situation, we at Phasure are highly convinced of (many things, but alas) the necessity to once in a while shutting off a certain device which I myself dedicate to capacitance build-up. Just switching it off for a short while, and on again, is sufficient.

 

In the very end such build-up can even cause ground loops.  Just wait till it "pops" (if you don't understand what I am talking about, too bad).

 

Btw, all such issues could be avoided by getting yourself better equipment, right ?

Yea, right. But I won't.

[PeterSt]

Although I leave everything On 24/7, it still is so that the DAC requires 20 minutes of real music playing. You can almost set the clock on it.

Obviously people think that this is about heat, but this is rubbish IME (I use the infrared meter more than my car). Here too it is about a "flow" as such and this flow needs to establish. Especially when it is about repetitive "data" (like the USB protocol is that), this "forms" in the current flow. It needs to find its way. Compare with water leaking, which at first (all surfaces dry) has a path, but the water itself will change that path here and there, until it is settled. Btw, the settling may not happen at all, and this can be compared to capacitance loading and unloading (I coincidentally could show you this phenomenon by means of our NOS1 and its servo control of DC-Offset (apply that wrongly, and it never stabilizes).

 

After thinking about this "20 minute" heat up for a year, I decided to make a provision in the (XXHE) software that allows for silently playing music. USB is now active all thee time (though at a fairly low level) and the DAC is actively performing its D/A task continuously. And yes, even the amplifiers and everything is just On (IOW you won't hear a thing of this).

And then something happened I could not predict ...

 

With this feature, you actually play music 24/7 and the difference - at least in my situation - is crazy. The sound is so so much more clean (more crispy, more responsive). And of course right from the first tones of music for the day. 😉

I never knew that this could make such a difference, and obviously when you play music continuously for say 8 hours, you won't notice either because it will go gradually (better).

 

Of course we could try to tell all the NOS1 customers to switch to an other DAC which doesn't have this "issue" (??), but ... be real.

 

I hope others can show similar stories. We can only learn from it.

Peter

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Hmm, I notice that an originally possibly interesting thread, was turned into a "you should buy better equipment next time".

Alex, although you could be correct, what in heaven's sake is the use of mentioning this again and again. Do you really seriously think that I - or anyone for that matter - would consider buying new gear for this reason ?

 

 

OK ?

Peter

 In case you didn't notice, those replies were aimed squarely at Frank who seems to think that everything needs protection by some undoubtedly S/W controlled ,complicated singing and dancing  hardware monitor with leads going everywhere like an ECG monitor.

BTW, in many countries these days, the increasing summer temperatures, as well as in some cases decreasing winter temperatures also, have caused Electricity Grid supply problems , even resulting in load shedding. The last thing we need is electronic gear that needs to be on 24/7 just to sound good for a couple of hours.

 

Alex

[MarkusBarkus]

2 hours ago, PeterSt said:

With this feature, you actually play music 24/7 and the difference - at least in my situation - is crazy. The sound is so so much more clean (more crispy, more responsive). And of course right from the first tones of music for the day. 😉

...I hope others can show similar stories. We can only learn from it.

Peter

@PeterSt I agree that music "flowing" through the system end-to-end for a while seems to make the system sound "smoother."

I leave everything on 24/7 and I very often have music playing through my headphones, sometimes for days on end, overnight, etc.

 

I especially do this if I know Sweetie will be going to the gym, etc. and I plan a more attentive listening session.
 

I recognize playing through the speakers, probably the most "mechanical" piece of the puzzle, would be better, but it's not always practical...although I have been known to pass music through the speakers/system overnight at very low volume for an early morning listen.
 

Regarding your ideas on turning gear off occasionally, would, say, once per month be sufficient? Have you "tracked" and of those reset cycles for performance of the gear or the sound, by any chance?

 

Please keep your reply brief and continue working on my Lush ^3s 😉 

[PeterSt]

14 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Please keep your reply brief and continue working on my Lush ^3s 😉 

 

Ah, that is You ! haha, nice to know.

 

15 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Regarding your ideas on turning gear off occasionally, would, say, once per month be sufficient?

 

This is impossible to tell because it depends on the specific situation, and maybe in your situation it doesn't happen at all.

 

If one is a keen observer, he/she might notice that the sound degrades. Or, that he is not satisfied with the sound "today" without clear reason (mood is still OK etc.). That could be a time to reboot the device(s) of concern and the least what will happen is the placebo working. 😁

 

Back in those days with the Denson CD, I recall that each and every time I got unsatisfied, and as many times I saw myself sitting back and jumping up because it "had to be time" for the Denson CD.

So the degradation sneaks in but at some stage you will notice it. That you didn't play quite on par the last couple of days ... who cares, as long as you didn't notice it.

 

I didn't mention it because it is too specific for the "XXHighEnd" gang, but certainly a PC requires a reboot once in the x days. In our case this is the OS running from RAM (not even any disks etc. connected) but at some stage all gets too mixed up in memory for the OS itself in order to behave well - and this is audible.

My PC's too are always On. And oh, such a required reboot when running from RAM really is merely about months rather than days.

 

15 days in this case.

But this too depends on the situation, knowing that USB is the big pain because it (via the PC) connects to Protective Earth (and from there interferes with up to your power amps).

But hey, you'll have nice USB cables against that. 🤪

[PeterSt]

Many years ago someone (IIRC from France) tried to teach us that a downloaded file had to break in. Thus, play that file for a long time (like 24 hours) and the music from it would sound better. Everybody including me declared the guy crazy.

 

I think since a year ago or so, I started to grasp what this would be about (again the "flowing" thing) and I'd believe in such a phenomenon today. Not that the file needs breaking in, but you know what I mean.

 

If anyone happens to know who he was, we could try to find that thread of concern and I can make a nice apology to him.

[fas42]

14 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Of course totally depending on your specific situation, we at Phasure are highly convinced of (many things, but alas) the necessity to once in a while shutting off a certain device which I myself dedicate to capacitance build-up. Just switching it off for a short while, and on again, is sufficient.

 

 Very interesting that you've had this scenario, Peter. The first good rig, over 30 years ago, had this issue - and drove me crazy - stopped me getting "special" SQ for more than a short period of time. Trial and error gave me the workaround, and the ritual of switching off, and back on again, was a pattern that lasted until I gave up on trying to keep the sound in the good zone - because I didn't know enough, back then, to understand what was going on ...

 

Over the years, some combos had a propensity more than others to suffer this - each situation is unique.

 

 

 

[fas42]

14 hours ago, PeterSt said:

With this feature, you actually play music 24/7 and the difference - at least in my situation - is crazy. The sound is so so much more clean (more crispy, more responsive). And of course right from the first tones of music for the day. 😉

I never knew that this could make such a difference, and obviously when you play music continuously for say 8 hours, you won't notice either because it will go gradually (better).

 

Of course we could try to tell all the NOS1 customers to switch to an other DAC which doesn't have this "issue" (??), but ... be real.

 

I hope others can show similar stories. We can only learn from it.

Peter

 

My original Yamaha CDP was very responsive to the "playing music constantly" - from cold, it always was 'smooth', but transient impact was MIA ... so, I got in the habit of feeding it CD after CD; throughout the day it was always running some music - so, conditioning was ongoing. Full oomph in the sound developed after 3 days of this ... making it ready to spit out "special" sound, when conditions were ready elsewhere for this to happen, 😉.

[fas42]

11 hours ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Regarding your ideas on turning gear off occasionally, would, say, once per month be sufficient? Have you "tracked" and of those reset cycles for performance of the gear or the sound, by any chance?

 

Please keep your reply brief and continue working on my Lush ^3s 😉 

 

Let your ears be a guide ... if an "offness" seems to be in the sound, on a particular track, immediately switch everything off - and back on again, after a short wait to allow voltages to drain away. Straightaway, play that same track again - is the unpleasant edge to the sound now gone? If so, then there is some static, or voltage buildup going on ...

[photonman]

If you are not actively using an electrically powered piece of equipment, my opinion is it should be turned off.  That is whey they come equipped with on/off buttons.  Is audiophile-itus more important then clean air and clean water.  Every little bit does help.  Eat meat one less day a week, turn off your equipment when not being used, it adds up when we are talking about 7.8 billion people on this planet and about 10 billion by 2050.

[lucretius]

delete

[Allan F]

22 hours ago, photonman said:

Every little bit does help.  Eat meat one less day a week, turn off your equipment when not being used, it adds up when we are talking about 7.8 billion people on this planet and about 10 billion by 2050.

7.8 billion people leave their electrically powered equipment on when not actively using it? I sincerely doubt that. BTW, speaking of conserving water, do you flush the toilet every time you pee? 🙂

[sandyk]

9 hours ago, Allan F said:

BTW, speaking of conserving water, do you flush the toilet every time you pee? 🙂

 

We had an official  saying here some time back during a water shortage :

 "If it's Yellow, let it mellow. If it's Brown , flush it down .

[MarkusBarkus]

Las Vegas, Times Square, Ginza Strip, <add your favorite light display here> vs. my few watts leaving my gear on? 

[PeterSt]

 

On 9/26/2020 at 1:10 AM, sandyk said:

With my 15W/Ch. Class A amplifier for example, the Bias is set for a continuous 1A power draw from each supply rail and both channels dissipate a total of > 80W of heat.(+ and - 20V supply rails )

 

Hey, Mr Fake News ... Saw that ...

😆

 

(mentioned with fun/pun in mind)

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, PeterSt said:

 

 

Hey, Mr Fake News ... Saw that ...

😆

 

(mentioned with fun/pun in mind)

Is it Fake News that some manufacturers DACs actually dissipate more heat than my Class A amplifier ? 😉

[PeterSt]

17 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Is it Fake News that some manufacturers DACs actually dissipate more heat than my Class A amplifier ? 😉

 

OffTopic, I suppose:

 

I considered to add in that other thread that most unnecessary heat = waste, comes from voltage regulation which does not "match" well. I (by now) also know what a sport it is to make that matching in each and every occasion in a device (start with our LPSU in a Xeon-beast PC) ... so Alex, Yes ...

Once I saw how to do these things, our NOS1 at first was 45C on the heatsinks of the Shunt PSU (btw coincidentally also 1A). After modification it is now only 25C (and still 1A !!) - ambient is 21 or so.

 

Around me I see it happening that the most crazy voltage regulations are applied. Take Hypex for example.

Nice, that Class D. But useless for being "cold" as such.

 

I never was educated in power supplies (maybe I wasn't educated at all) but today I find it a great hobby. Actually it is rewarding. Saves you on capacitors as well. Haha.

 

[audiobomber]

I don't think anyone has mentioned startup transients, which can contribute to amp failure? I've heard that startup transient spikes are more likely to cause damage than leaving gear constantly powered, which I find credible. 

 

I always leave front-end gear powered up. The streamer and DAC in my main system go into power save mode, which is a great feature. 

 

I sometimes shut down the power amps in my main system, but they sound off for the first 15-20 minutes. I turn off the Asgard 2 in my headphone system because it runs super hot.

[MarkusBarkus]

16 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

...startup transient spikes are more likely to cause damage than leaving gear constantly powered, which I find credible. 

That is what we "learned" '70s era, so I follow that thinking still. Like the '70s vintage video game Tempest: "avoid spikes!"

It "seems" like steady-state is easier on the gear. If more modern thinking refutes these old ideas, I would gladly update my paradigm.

[MarkusBarkus]

...OK I just looked up Tempest: 1981. Don't bust me on that. Felt like the '70s from memory.