Melco S100 Ethernet Switch Measurements

[ASRMichael]

My view is....

 

Is it not fair to say currently the best method to analysis what's happening with digital audio (zeros and ones) is our ears?. Just because we don't have the technology yet to fully analysis this doesn't mean it's not happening.  I always hear the the argument there is no measurement so it's snake oil. If that was the case, we should take the word "Love" away, because it can't be measured with technology. It can be measured through emotion, and guess what music is emotion.  

[plissken]

2 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

Is it not fair to say currently the best method to analysis what's happening with digital audio (zeros and ones) is our ears?.

I totally agree. Now I've been offering $4,000 for anyone that will do this will ears only when it comes to audiophile network switches.

 

Can't give it away...

[ASRMichael]

14 minutes ago, plissken said:

I totally agree. Now I've been offering $4,000 for anyone that will do this will ears only when it comes to audiophile network switches.

 

Can't give it away...

Can you explain a bit further?

[plissken]

1 minute ago, ASRMichael said:

Can you explain a bit further?

If you watch the video it explains what I'm proposing.

[ASRMichael]

5 minutes ago, plissken said:

If you watch the video it explains what I'm proposing.

Is the video not only showing what you can see happening with the technology we have to measure? 

[plissken]

1 minute ago, ASRMichael said:

Is the video not only showing what you can see happening with the technology we have to measure? 

It's a short video. I encourage you to watch it and hopefully it will prompt you to re-evaluate some of the incorrectly held misconceptions about computer playback and non-realtime audio.

[ASRMichael]

Just now, plissken said:

It's a short video. I encourage you to watch it and hopefully it will prompt you to re-evaluate some of the incorrectly held misconceptions about computer playback and non-realtime audio.

I did watch it. I do appreciate what you are saying, and agree there might be misconceptions but that does not disprove there is no benefit in sounds quality. I ignore the technical jargon and use my ears. I also think the best way for testing if something is a benefit in SQ is to install new device and listen to it for a few months then take it back out. My brain might tell me there's something missing, but will help me decide if I want to keep it or not. 

[ASRMichael]

8 minutes ago, plissken said:

It's a short video. I encourage you to watch it and hopefully it will prompt you to re-evaluate some of the incorrectly held misconceptions about computer playback and non-realtime audio.

Maybe off Topic from switches but relevant to measurements is another area I have been testing lately is....if there is a difference in SQ copying a CD on my non audio server versus my audio server with same software. I cannot understand myself but the 10 tracks I've copied on my audio server sound better than non-audio server. Even though it's the same ones and zeros. Don't laugh just because I have no evidence but I am hearing a difference. Why? I ask?. Does this suggest each time files are created or data sent and reclocked does the quality of components matter? clocks? etc. I;m not that tech save to answer this, this is why I use my ears. 

[plissken]

14 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

 I;m not that tech save to answer this, this is why I use my ears. 

 

Which is why I have made a standing offer for years now to pay off anyone that can, ears only, when it comes to audiophile switches/patch cable, tell the difference when they don't know what is in play.

[mecani]

The only thing I can say from the sincerity is that the melco s100 makes a very obvious improvement, it is not subtle

[Superdad]

47 minutes ago, mecani said:

The only thing I can say from the sincerity is that the melco s100 makes a very obvious improvement, it is not subtle

Same for the more that 1,600 people who have purchased our EtherREGEN. It is the main target of @plissken’s relentless crusade—in which he seems to ignore the very real electrical effects that common-mode leakage currents, ground-plane noise, and clock-threshold jitter have when permitted to enter the DAC-attached endpoint.

 

We sell our tech-unique switch for a modest $640 (and I guarantee its circuit board bill-of-materials is more costly that switches 3x its retail price) with a 30-day money-back satisfaction guarantee. To-date only 5 people have returned theirs to us. Three did not find it to their taste, and only two (one of whom was Mark/@plissken himself) said they did not hear any difference.

So if Mark’s $4,000 prize is real (who knows what weird constraints he would put on it), then someone might earn some easy money. Personally, I have no time for what he wishes to drag this into.

[plissken]

27 minutes ago, Superdad said:

in which he sAnde are these as real as your eems to ignore the very real electrical effects that common-mode leakage currents, ground-plane noise, and clock-threshold jitter have when permitted to enter the DAC-attached endpoint.

 

Are these as real as the yet  un-released measurements that you've been promising?

 

My video shows how this could be done. The constraints are that the setup has to support LACP and streamer if used would have to support reconnecting to it's source automatically. That the participant wouldn't know what is in use.

 

As far as how it would be switched up I'm flexible to the point that we could select how many potential changes in a track and let the listener pick the times of potential change.

 

Although if the differences are that stark then you should  know when the change is made.

[firedog]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Same for the more that 1,600 people who have purchased our EtherREGEN. It is the main target of @plissken’s relentless crusade—in which he seems to ignore the very real electrical effects that common-mode leakage currents, ground-plane noise, and clock-threshold jitter have when permitted to enter the DAC-attached endpoint.

 

We sell our tech-unique switch for a modest $640 (and I guarantee its circuit board bill-of-materials is more costly that switches 3x its retail price) with a 30-day money-back satisfaction guarantee. To-date only 5 people have returned theirs to us. Three did not find it to their taste, and only two (one of whom was Mark/@plissken himself) said they did not hear any difference.

So if Mark’s $4,000 prize is real (who knows what weird constraints he would put on it), then someone might earn some easy money. Personally, I have no time for what he wishes to drag this into.

With fairness, we've been hearing basically the same argument going back to the original Regen, not just the ER. We keep hearing "white paper explanations" for why/how your devices work, but we've never seen a single measurement provided that show not theorectical improvements, but an actual improvement at the output of DACs. That's what's needed.  You've promised such measurements, but never provided them. 

 

I will note that the "USB detoxer" built into the Pro-ject S2 Ultra streamer box was measured to provide just such improvements: https://www.hifinews.com/content/pro-ject-stream-box-s2-ultra-network-bridge-lab-report

 

Since you can't seem to come up to with similar measurements, maybe you should submit the ER to Hifi News for review and measurement. 

 

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, firedog said:

With fairness, we've been hearing basically the same argument going back to the original Regen, not just the ER. We keep hearing "white paper explanations" for why/how your devices work, but we've never seen a single measurement provided that show not theorectical improvements, but an actual improvement at the output of DACs. That's what's needed.  You've promised such measurements, but never provided them. 

 

I will note that the "USB detoxer" built into the Pro-ject S2 Ultra streamer box was measured to provide just such improvements: https://www.hifinews.com/content/pro-ject-stream-box-s2-ultra-network-bridge-lab-report

 

Since you can't seem to come up to with similar measurements, maybe you should submit the ER to Hifi News for review and measurement. 

 

Looking at your system do you have measurements for all your kit? Or did you choose by ear? 

[plissken]

5 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Looking at your system do you have measurements for all your kit? Or did you choose by ear? 

 

That's only relevant to claims being made. 

 

If you say You can from a standstill jump straight up and clear a 10 foot high bar, I'm going to bring a bar and a tape measure. 

[ASRMichael]

9 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

That's only relevant to claims being made. 

 

If you say You can from a standstill jump straight up and clear a 10 foot high bar, I'm going to bring a bar and a tape measure. 

I’ll bring technology to make sure I’m measuring what you doing then! 👍! After all it needs to me measured! 

[plissken]

1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

I’ll bring technology to make sure I’m measuring what you doing then! 👍! After all it needs to me measured! 

 

You bring the finest measuring instruments in human history according to many at A/S: Your ears.

[firedog]

3 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

Looking at your system do you have measurements for all your kit? Or did you choose by ear? 

Your question is irrelevant. I'm not making marketing a device and claiming it improves the SQ of the output of a DAC if it is inserted in the chain before the DAC. If you make a claim you should be able to back it up.

But just so you know, I do have measurements of the output of my system. But again, that has zero relevance. I haven't challenged what anyone says they do or don't hear. I'm challenging claims made for a device and how it affects audio output. 

Anecdotal informal user reports - negative or positive - aren't proof or disproof of such claims. 

[ASRMichael]

I think it is relevant, you have strong views about marketing information. I was looking at your iFi AC iPurifiers, various marketing claims. Can you post on here the measurements to substantiate iFi’s claims? Which I presume you have them otherwise you wouldn’t have bought it right?

[pkane2001]

2 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

I think it is relevant, you have strong views about marketing information. I was looking at your iFi AC iPurifiers, various marketing claims. Can you post on here the measurements to substantiate iFi’s claims? Which I presume you have them otherwise you wouldn’t have bought it right?

 

Firedog isn't selling or promoting his system or components. He's not advertising it or making any claims about it. Maybe you should ask iFi to substantiate their claims, instead? 

[ASRMichael]

3 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Firedog isn't selling or promoting his system or components. He's not advertising it or making any claims about it. Maybe you should ask iFi to substantiate their claims, instead? 

The fact he hasn’t responded suggest he bought the iFi without any measurements for the claims they advertise. This suggests any inconsistency with being objective. Simple as! Explain to me a lot about this section of the forum. 

[pkane2001]

16 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

The fact he hasn’t responded suggest he bought the iFi without any measurements for the claims they advertise. This suggests any inconsistency with being objective. Simple as! Explain to me a lot about this section of the forum. 

 

@firedogis either curious, objective, subjective, or some combination of the above. That's his choice, and based on his posts here and elsewhere, I'd say he's leaning to the objective side, but that's just my impression.

 

He brought up a valid point about many years of promises of objective measurements from a vendor that are yet to be fulfilled. What does that have to do with how Firedog picks components for his personal system? Even more distressing is how you make the leap from what Firedog does for his personal enjoyment to a generalized explanation of this entire sub-forum. 

[firedog]

On 9/22/2020 at 3:22 PM, ASRMichael said:

I think it is relevant, you have strong views about marketing information. I was looking at your iFi AC iPurifiers, various marketing claims. Can you post on here the measurements to substantiate iFi’s claims? Which I presume you have them otherwise you wouldn’t have bought it right?

Again, you miss the point and think somehow if you look at my setup you can catch me being a hypocrite. Wrong both times. I don't make or manufacture any of the devices, and make no claims about them other than how they sound to me. I'm not the manufacturer, so I don't have to back up any claim I would make, as long as I present it as a personal impression and not a "fact" of audio reproduction that applies to others or generally to audio reproduction.

In general, I've measured how my Kiis perform in my room, so I can make claims about that.

 

As far as iFi or other devices, I have them in the chain for various type of protection they provide. I make no claims they improve SQ and don't care if they do or don't. I have lots of issues with power/voltage/DC offset where I live and the power devices are for that. Subjectively, I don't think they make a difference to SQ. If they do it is small. I've at times thought I heard a small difference, at others don't hear any. To me that means the don't change SQ in a meaningful way. If they did I'd hear it consistently. I don't care enough to test it rigorously, as that's not why I use them.

And a small piece of unsolicited advice: it's not a positive thing to look at peoples signatures on forums and make all sorts of assumptions about them based on the HW listed. Your assumptions about why they have something may be wrong: is for SQ, is it for lifestyle, is it because they like a type of euphonic distortion, is it because their significant other likes a piece,  is for space considerations, or maybe they were gifted a piece. Or maybe they own something and want to change it. You have no way of knowing.

 

 

[ASRMichael]

“and make no claims about them other than how they sound to me”

 

So I understand you correctly, you are saying if they sound good you’d be happy to have it in your system? That makes sense to me. Have you tried the EtherRegen or Melco switch in your system? 

[R1200CL]

On 9/21/2020 at 4:07 AM, plissken said:

 

You watched the video?

Yes, i watched the video. I can unplug here as well. It will play quite short. 
I suppose the point with that video is only to show that there is a buffer present ?
 

So that’s why I’m asking where is the buffer ?
I also have two Cisco here. One is SMG 300, and the other is 8 port 2960G which I haven’t been able to log into yet. (But I think I know why). 
 

Can either of those two switches be set to extend the buffers ?