Beethoven was black!

[sphinxsix]

 

I bet you didn't know! An interesting read:

 

Beethoven was black

 

Beethoven's death mask.

 

 

Beethoven may have been black

 

[AudioDoctor]

Nothing but pure, 100% conjecture...

 

 

[AudioDoctor]

https://graphicarts.princeton.edu/2015/04/17/will-the-real-beethoven-please-stand-up/

[AudioDoctor]

We have to go the the University of Michigan for a good answer, again...  😉

 

"Thurman, a professor at the University of Michigan, hopped onto Twitter to share her perspective on the conversation in a thread, which went viral last week. She says she can’t speak to the question of Beethoven’s race. However, she suggested that those who focused on whether or not the composer was black are missing an important part of the picture: the number of black composers, including Bridgetower, Beethoven’s contemporary and friend, who have received relatively little attention in history and popular culture up to this point."

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/was-beethoven-black-and-why-might-be-wrong-question-ask-180975159/

[Norton]

6 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

who have received relatively little attention in history and popular culture up to this point.

Lesser known composers are an interest of mine, and relatively well served in recordings these days, but to be honest, regardless of race, the reason they are lesser  known is simply because they weren’t that good, especially if  Beethoven is your standard.  I honestly doubt that an obscure composer will ever emerge who was truly in the Beethoven, Bach, Mozart league 

 

Samuel Coleridge Taylor is a case in point; I enjoy his music (and he was quite famous for Hiawatha in days gone by)  but he’s no Beethoven or Bach, any more than Bax, Alwyn or Rubbra  were 

[astrotoy]

I would say that we have to be a little careful in choosing who are the great composers.   It partly depends on the era.  Bach was known in the era of Mozart and Beethoven, but not generally considered one of the greats, until Mendelssohn rediscovered him.  Same with Schubert, where many of what we now consider greatest compositions weren't even played until many years after his death.  During a composer's lifetime, it is particularly hard to judge what is great about them.  For example, during his lifetime, Beethoven's first symphony was his most popular symphony and his most popular piece was his Septet.  Other composers have been rediscovered or gained in popularity after decades of obscurity. Mahler is a good example.  Still others had great fame for an extended period and then faded into relative obscurity, for example both Telemann and Graupner were more highly ranked than Bach for the position of Leipzig's Kapellmeister.   

 

Larry

[wdw]

4 hours ago, astrotoy said:

...... for example both Telemann and Graupner were more highly ranked than Bach for the position of Leipzig's Kapellmeister.   

 

Larry

...am reminded of that humorous story of the rank and file from the Philharmonic, on a lunch break, looking to make a few dollars and renting an empty noon day picture theatre just down the street to play some concert music ..... sign said

 

“All the Telemann you can take, Five Bucks,”

[firedog]

On 9/8/2020 at 2:11 AM, sphinxsix said:

 

I bet you didn't know! An interesting read:

 

Beethoven was black

 

Beethoven's death mask.

 

 

Beethoven may have been black

 

So was the original St. Nicolas (or at least brown-Mediterranean):https://www.stnicholascenter.org/who-is-st-nicholas/real-face

 

Black Santa?

 

[sphinxsix]

6 hours ago, firedog said:

So was the original St. Nicolas (or at least brown-Mediterranean):https://www.stnicholascenter.org/who-is-st-nicholas/real-face

 

Black Santa?

 

 

There are some more rumors on the internet.. 

 

 

 

On 9/8/2020 at 3:03 AM, AudioDoctor said:

We have to go the the University of Michigan for a good answer, again...  😉

 

"Thurman, a professor at the University of Michigan, hopped onto Twitter to share her perspective on the conversation in a thread, which went viral last week. She says she can’t speak to the question of Beethoven’s race. However, she suggested that those who focused on whether or not the composer was black are missing an important part of the picture: the number of black composers, including Bridgetower, Beethoven’s contemporary and friend, who have received relatively little attention in history and popular culture up to this point."

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/was-beethoven-black-and-why-might-be-wrong-question-ask-180975159/

 

I had actually checked out the relatively unknown composer who was mentioned in the Guardian article:

and I will probably get this album. IMO quite interesting music, for sure - an original one!

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 hours ago, astrotoy said:

I would say that we have to be a little careful in choosing who are the great composers.   It partly depends on the era.  Bach was known in the era of Mozart and Beethoven, but not generally considered one of the greats, until Mendelssohn rediscovered him.  Same with Schubert, where many of what we now consider greatest compositions weren't even played until many years after his death.  During a composer's lifetime, it is particularly hard to judge what is great about them.  For example, during his lifetime, Beethoven's first symphony was his most popular symphony and his most popular piece was his Septet.  Other composers have been rediscovered or gained in popularity after decades of obscurity. Mahler is a good example.  Still others had great fame for an extended period and then faded into relative obscurity, for example both Telemann and Graupner were more highly ranked than Bach for the position of Leipzig's Kapellmeister.   

 

Larry

This reminds me of Babe Ruth, for all the sports fans :~)

 

In his day the sports writers didn't regard him nearly as high as the writers do today. Perhaps he wasn't that good and the myth has been built up or perhaps his greatness can only be seen later when compared to decades of other greats. Who knows. 

[jcbenten]

3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This reminds me of Babe Ruth, for all the sports fans :~)

 

In his day the sports writers didn't regard him nearly as high as the writers do today. Perhaps he wasn't that good and the myth has been built up or perhaps his greatness can only be seen later when compared to decades of other greats. Who knows. 

Are those the same sports writers who refused to investigate steroids in baseball because they were all so giddy over the homeruns and now refuse to elect those same players, admitted and suspected, to the HOF because of "cheating"?  Does anyone still read them?  Personally I do not think I have picked up a paper in 10+ years and I am not interested in subscribing for the online experience.

 

Sorry for the off topic