sandyk Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 You can SHOUT all you like , but the original requests from many members were for a Vinyl section in what was basically a Digital forum ( Computer Audiophile) How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Rexp Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Class D isn't Analog - end of discussion. opus101, R1200CL and sandyk 1 2 Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted September 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rexp said: Class D isn't Analog - end of discussion. All Amplifiers are Analogue, but Some Amplifiers are More Analogue than Others This paper intends to clarify the terms "digital" and "analogue" as applied to class-D audio power amplifiers. Since loudspeaker terminals require an analogue voltage, an audio power amplifier must have an analogue output. If its input is digital, digital-to-analogue conversion is executed at some point. Once a designer acknowledges the analogue output properties of a class-D power stage, amplifier quality can improve. The incorrect assumption that some amplifiers are supposedly digital, causes many designers to come up with twisted digital patches to ordinary analogue phenomena such as timing distortion or supply rejection. This irrational approach blocks the way to a rich world of well-established analogue techniques to avoid many of these problems and realize otherwise unattainable characteristics such as excellent THD+N and extremely low output impedance throughout the audio band. https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=13494 The Computer Audiophile and AudioDoctor 2 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
Popular Post R1200CL Posted September 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2020 AudioDoctor and PYP 2 Link to comment
Rexp Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 14 minutes ago, kumakuma said: All Amplifiers are Analogue, but Some Amplifiers are More Analogue than Others This paper intends to clarify the terms "digital" and "analogue" as applied to class-D audio power amplifiers. Since loudspeaker terminals require an analogue voltage, an audio power amplifier must have an analogue output. If its input is digital, digital-to-analogue conversion is executed at some point. Once a designer acknowledges the analogue output properties of a class-D power stage, amplifier quality can improve. The incorrect assumption that some amplifiers are supposedly digital, causes many designers to come up with twisted digital patches to ordinary analogue phenomena such as timing distortion or supply rejection. This irrational approach blocks the way to a rich world of well-established analogue techniques to avoid many of these problems and realize otherwise unattainable characteristics such as excellent THD+N and extremely low output impedance throughout the audio band. https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=13494 Sure it has an analog output, so what, so does a CD player. Analog in this context means analog in, analog out with no digital conversion in the middle. AudioDoctor, sandyk and kumakuma 1 2 Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 @The Computer Audiophile Chris, I need to apologize for causing this mini shite storm here. I honestly had no idea that a new Marantz amplifier and SACD/DAC would cause such controversy. The Computer Audiophile 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
Popular Post Miska Posted September 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2020 9 hours ago, GUTB said: Class D is useless trash. Possibly technology will progress to the point where class D will compete with linear amplification in terms of sound quality but we're not there yet. One thing with traditional class-D is that it uses very simple analog modulators. Also if you feed such from a DAC you need to take care that the DAC doesn't output any ultrasonic images or such, because those amplifiers have aliasing effects down to audio band. So just using any DAC won't lead to good results, because majority of DACs produce those images when running for example from RedBook sources. DAC and the used upsampling needs to be carefully selected to have a clean result from aliasing perspective. Instead of analog modulators, one can use much more advanced digital modulators. Amplifier essentially becomes a "power DAC". No intermediate low level analog signal at all. However making such from scratch is not very easy, both the software and hardware can be very tricky to get right... Disclaimer: I'm affiliated with one... AudioDoctor and PYP 2 Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Popular Post AudioDoctor Posted September 10, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2020 Amplifiers are right in the description of the forum, I'm not sure why anyone is arguing about the posting of an amplifier here unless they want to be ultra pedantic. R1200CL, The Computer Audiophile and PYP 2 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
R1200CL Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Miska said: have aliasing effects down to audio band Well, won’t using HQPlayer helping avoiding that ? I would also expect anti aliasing filters would be applied in most DAC’s. Or you add then on input of the amplifier. So I don’t expect this to be an issue today. Manufacturers must be aware of this. Still I’m not sure I understand why a Hypex vs a class A amplifier should act differently on input signal. But I probably won’t understand the answer either 😀 Link to comment
Audiophile Neuroscience Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 13 hours ago, GUTB said: Class D is useless trash. I object Sir ! Trash can and should be recycled !😁 sandyk 1 Sound Minds Mind Sound Link to comment
Audiophile Neuroscience Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 12 hours ago, AudioDoctor said: I'll reserve judgement until I actually hear the thing... I object Sir ! I have measurements ! sandyk 1 Sound Minds Mind Sound Link to comment
Audiophile Neuroscience Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 12 hours ago, 4est said: Good gear can be had in both, and the better either SS or tube examples sound, the more they sound alike. I object Sir ! I banish Ye to ASR Sound Minds Mind Sound Link to comment
Audiophile Neuroscience Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 9 hours ago, R1200CL said: I hope one day Chris will be able to listen to them. I know he’s skeptical about class D. D is a fail ! sandyk 1 Sound Minds Mind Sound Link to comment
sandyk Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 On 9/4/2020 at 1:35 PM, AudioDoctor said: The Integrated is using the Hypex Ncore class D amplifiers, meaning GUTB already hates it. The Network player does USB PCM up to 384khz and DSD to 11.2 Mhz. Both of these components use switching technology . This area was a result of numerous requests for an all analogue area, with mainly Vinyl playback to discuss non switching (digital ) components which were not covered originally in Computer Audiophile. Pure Analogue components are items such as Turntables , and their Cartridges, Vinyl playback in general,RIAA Phono Preamps, Reel to Reel and Cassette decks. AM and FM Tuners , Analogue Preamps and Analogue Power Amplifiers.. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted September 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 hours ago, AudioDoctor said: Amplifiers are right in the description of the forum, I'm not sure why anyone is arguing about the posting of an amplifier here unless they want to be ultra pedantic. Audiophiles, ultra pedantic? No way! Hang on, I’m being told this description will be in the updated DSM 6. Audiophile Neuroscience and AudioDoctor 2 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Miska Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 2 hours ago, R1200CL said: Well, won’t using HQPlayer helping avoiding that ? Yes, but you still need a bit of care with the DAC pairing. For example something like 352.8/384k PCM output is not sufficient. Which is what pretty much all on-chip digital filters output. 2 hours ago, R1200CL said: I would also expect anti aliasing filters would be applied in most DAC’s. Or you add then on input of the amplifier. So I don’t expect this to be an issue today. Reconstruction filters, anti-alias filters are at ADC side. Class-D amp's modulator is essentially like an ADC. They have a little bit, usually second order analog filter (12 dB/oct) with fc around 100 kHz. 3 hours ago, R1200CL said: Manufacturers must be aware of this. I think they are not, or alternatively conveniently ignored. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
mav52 Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 On 9/4/2020 at 12:47 PM, GUTB said: Class D? Embarrassing trash. I guess that's the state of Marantz. I guess you have heard all the class D amps made, good for you. The Truth Is Out There Link to comment
4est Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 9 hours ago, sandyk said: Both of these components use switching technology . This area was a result of numerous requests for an all analogue area, with mainly Vinyl playback to discuss non switching (digital ) components which were not covered originally in Computer Audiophile. Pure Analogue components are items such as Turntables , and their Cartridges, Vinyl playback in general,RIAA Phono Preamps, Reel to Reel and Cassette decks. AM and FM Tuners , Analogue Preamps and Analogue Power Amplifiers.. Perhaps you haven't noticed, this site is now Audiophile Style, and typically vinyl does have a lot of style to it. The Computer Audiophile 1 Forrest: Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP> Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz Link to comment
sandyk Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 1 hour ago, 4est said: Perhaps you haven't noticed, this site is now Audiophile Style, and typically vinyl does have a lot of style to it. I was simply pointing out that this section has been asked for many times previously, even well before the name change. Although I no longer have vinyl, due to the promises of immature Digital technology which >35 years later is still being refined, I believe that now that we are Audiophile Style forum , members should be entitled to an Analogue ONLY area, free of equipment with internal Digital processing where a purely analogue only version is available. Audiophile Neuroscience and kumakuma 1 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post AudioDoctor Posted September 10, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2020 Some of you are exactly why I never even considered becoming a psych Dr... R1200CL, The Computer Audiophile, PYP and 1 other 3 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
sandyk Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: Some of you are exactly why I never even considered becoming a psych Dr... Is it too much to ask that the many members who asked for this sub forum be permitted a Digital free area ? There are already several other areas where you could have posted this thread. kumakuma, AudioDoctor and Rexp 1 2 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 11, 2020 Author Share Posted September 11, 2020 32 minutes ago, sandyk said: Is it too much to ask that the many members who asked for this sub forum be permitted a Digital free area ? There are already several other areas where you could have posted this thread. Are you being fucking serious right now? No electron left behind. Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 11, 2020 Author Share Posted September 11, 2020 Hmmmmmm http://www.channld.com/purevinyl/ No electron left behind. Link to comment
Rexp Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: Are you being fucking serious right now? Are you!? sandyk 1 Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 11, 2020 Author Share Posted September 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rexp said: Are you!? 100% sandyk 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
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