AudioDoctor Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 The 30 series consisting of the Model 30 Integrated Amp and 30n SACD player/network player. The Integrated is using the Hypex Ncore class D amplifiers, meaning GUTB already hates it. The Network player does USB PCM up to 384khz and DSD to 11.2 Mhz. Specs and all related info can be found here: https://www.us.marantz.com/en-us/30-series No electron left behind. Link to comment
GUTB Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 13 hours ago, AudioDoctor said: The 30 series consisting of the Model 30 Integrated Amp and 30n SACD player/network player. The Integrated is using the Hypex Ncore class D amplifiers, meaning GUTB already hates it. The Network player does USB PCM up to 384khz and DSD to 11.2 Mhz. Specs and all related info can be found here: https://www.us.marantz.com/en-us/30-series Class D? Embarrassing trash. I guess that's the state of Marantz. Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 4 hours ago, GUTB said: Class D? Embarrassing trash. I guess that's the state of Marantz. Solid State amplifiers sucked at their inception as well... mav52 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
sandyk Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 On 9/5/2020 at 6:48 AM, AudioDoctor said: Solid State amplifiers sucked at their inception as well... Have you seen any other type of Class D amplifier ? A Vacuum tube type should make many of the Vinyl brigade happy too 😉 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 3 hours ago, sandyk said: Have you seen any other type of Class D amplifier ? Any other type? Are you also implying that they all suck? I actually haven't heard any of them, but I'm also not ready to dismiss an entire class of amplification. edit: yeah, I just got that. I know all class D is solid state. I guess I should have been more clear and said Class A/B and A solid state. No electron left behind. Link to comment
sandyk Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said: Are you also implying that they all suck? Many of the cheaper ones could be used for artificial Gravity on the Space Station. 😋 Audiophile Neuroscience 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post AudioDoctor Posted September 9, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2020 I am about to buy this Marantz just to spite you and GUTB and PM you both daily about how great it sounds. lucretius, semente, Solstice380 and 5 others 8 No electron left behind. Link to comment
sandyk Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: I am about to buy this Marantz just to spite you and GUTB and PM you both daily about how great it sounds. I was under the impression that you were a Vacuum Tube person ? In which case you may be disappointed with typical (NOT ALL) Class D offerings. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post 4est Posted September 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, sandyk said: I was under the impression that you were a Vacuum Tube person ? In which case you may be disappointed with typical (NOT ALL) Class D offerings. Does someone need to be one or the other? The Computer Audiophile, PYP and AudioDoctor 3 Forrest: Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP> Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz Link to comment
Popular Post Solstice380 Posted September 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2020 20 minutes ago, 4est said: Does someone need to be one or the other? I guess that means I have a split personality??? ☯️ PYP, 4est, AudioDoctor and 1 other 1 3 https://audiophilestyle.com/profile/21384-solstice380/?tab=field_core_pfield_3 Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 40 minutes ago, sandyk said: I was under the impression that you were a Vacuum Tube person ? In which case you may be disappointed with typical (NOT ALL) Class D offerings. If you look, you will notice I have both. No electron left behind. Link to comment
sandyk Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 57 minutes ago, 4est said: Does someone need to be one or the other? Judging by many of the replies in this forum, many have strong preferences for one or the other, just as many have strong preferences for Vinyl over Digital.. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post AudioDoctor Posted September 9, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2020 58 minutes ago, sandyk said: Judging by many of the replies in this forum, many have strong preferences for one or the other, just as many have strong preferences for Vinyl over Digital.. But, how do YOU feel about it? opus101 and mav52 2 No electron left behind. Link to comment
R1200CL Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 On 9/4/2020 at 5:35 AM, AudioDoctor said: The Integrated is using the Hypex Ncore class D amplifiers I think you’re wrong here. They use their old design HDAM amps (Latest version) with SMPS. https://www.marantz.com/-/media/files/document-master/marantzeu_product_documents/uk/marantz_model_30_info_sheet_eu.pdf Not even sure this can be called class D Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 9, 2020 Author Share Posted September 9, 2020 4 hours ago, R1200CL said: I think you’re wrong here. They use their old design HDAM amps (Latest version) with SMPS. https://www.marantz.com/-/media/files/document-master/marantzeu_product_documents/uk/marantz_model_30_info_sheet_eu.pdf Not even sure this can be called class D Every site that wrote it about on release day says you are wrong... https://darko.audio/2020/09/marantz-announces-model-30-integrated-sacd-30n-disc-network-player/ https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020/09/03/marantz-model-30-integrated-and-sacd-30n-network-audio-streamer-sacd-player/ https://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/marantz-model-30-and-30n No electron left behind. Link to comment
Popular Post GUTB Posted September 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2020 Class D is useless trash. Possibly technology will progress to the point where class D will compete with linear amplification in terms of sound quality but we're not there yet. The main problem is, what goes in isn't what comes out. The downside of linear amplification is that everything that goes in, including all the spurious junk, is what also comes out. The upside of class D is that the spurious junk that goes in mostly doesn't come out the other side. Class D provides lower noise, higher resolution. Driver control is much better in (high end) class D. But, the deadly flaw of class D, its deal-breaker, is that the output filter required for class D is very aggressive and destroys the euphonics of music. Some class D designers use proprietary systems like Technics' GaNFET transistors and Cherry's parallel modules to increase working audio bandwidth and lessening the impact of the output filter. Many lower-end designers add a class A input circuit in a failed attempt to add euphonics. Some use big linear power supplies instead of switching supplies, which, by accounts, does seem to improve things. The very best audiophile-grade class D modules use other forms of technical wizardly to reduce class D artifacts and improve quality. None of these efforts have produced a result that equals high-end linear (A and A/B) circuits. The ONLY class D I've heard which MAY warrant further listening are the Hypex 1200 modules, the tip-top ultra high-end class D from Hypex which are found almost entirely in amps well north of $10k. I was briefly excited for GaNFETs but after listening to an example after a 30+ day break in period I was left unsatisfied with the sound. I still have my Cherry and it was good enough for my main PC audio. Other amps I've listened to range from unlistenable to "great in some areas but ultimately unmusical and fatiguing". sandyk, PYP, opus101 and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment
sandyk Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 On 9/5/2020 at 2:47 AM, GUTB said: Class D? Embarrassing trash. I guess that's the state of Marantz. I doubt that Ken Ishiwata would be happy about it if he was still alive , but for companies to prosper these days they need to find a way to reduce costs and respond to customer demand, even if ill informed. Class D was mainly foisted on us by the energy reduction demands of the E.U. who we can probably also blame to a large extent for the proliferation of cheap and nasty SMPS wallwarts, even for L.E.D. lighting. It is however undeniable that many professional SMPS PSUs are very good, and don't pollute the A.C. mains supply either. I am surprised that they didn't find a way too, to completely BAN Class A S.S amplifiers and Vacuum Tube amplifiers while they were at it Audiophile Neuroscience 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post AudioDoctor Posted September 9, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2020 Unlike you two, I'll reserve judgement until I actually hear the thing... mav52, kumakuma, PYP and 2 others 2 3 No electron left behind. Link to comment
4est Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 11 hours ago, sandyk said: Judging by many of the replies in this forum, many have strong preferences for one or the other, just as many have strong preferences for Vinyl over Digital.. I do not see it as thus. Liking equipment doesn't mean you align towards their technology as much as their implementation. Good gear can be had in both, and the better either SS or tube examples sound, the more they sound alike. This is nothing like vinyl vs digital even though I agree all have some die hards. Forrest: Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP> Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz Link to comment
Rexp Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 Since Chris went to the trouble of adding a section for Analog components, I bet he was delighted to see this thread. The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
sandyk Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Rexp said: Since Chris went to the trouble of adding a section for Analog components, I bet he was delighted to see this thread. I am nor sure that these 2 products really fit in here though, as Class D amplifiers and the SACD player use Digital technology Many who have asked for this area would have been thinking more along the lines of Vinyl ,and analogue Tape Decks for example How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
R1200CL Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 3 hours ago, GUTB said: Class D is useless trash. Yes, Ice modules. Not so with Ncore. At least not my Hypex NC1200 into Theta Prometheus mono blocks. I hope one day Chris will be able to listen to them. I know he’s skeptical about class D. PYP 1 Link to comment
Popular Post R1200CL Posted September 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, sandyk said: Many who have asked for this area would have been thinking more along the lines of Vinyl ,and analogue Tape Decks for example Take one min and read second line in header of the forum 😀 For sure class D amps qualifies. sandyk, PYP and The Computer Audiophile 2 1 Link to comment
sandyk Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, R1200CL said: Take one min and read second line in header of the forum 😀 For sure class D amps qualifies. SACD Players also have an Analogue area but they aren't included. Besides which, Class D amplifiers have been well covered elsewhere for quite some time. I believe that the original intention was most likely purely Analogue devices without Digital conversions internally.. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
R1200CL Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 @sandyk Did you read the front page as requested ? Amps have analog signal in and out, including class D. AudioDoctor 1 Link to comment
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