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Analog: Still Better?


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55 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Far superior, to what that vinyl YT clip conveys - string backing sings; depth, ambience, imaging of the parts in the mix very nicely defined; couldn't ask more from the soundstaging ... who needs vinyl? 😀

IF the title track for example, didn't have such an overblown wide soundstage and extra sibilance to her voice as many CDs of that era have, and ideally have the Dolby-A artifacts or added HF EQ removed  as John Dyson keeps reporting,

it MAY then have the potential to totally blow away the Vinyl version. 😉

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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3 hours ago, firedog said:

Then you are doing it poorly.

 

Well done needle drops are indistinguishable from the original. They sound just like vinyl. 

I suggest you read JA's review of the Ayre ADC from a few years ago: he said, "but there was no doubt that with a 192kHz sample rate I could not distinguish between the LP and the digital rip. And believe me, I tried. I A/B'd the two versions until blood came out of my ears". 

You get all the sound of vinyl, even the surface noise, tonearm induced distortion, etc. 

Thing is he had to use 24/192. Many ADC's seem to need higher rates to work properly, then the mastering engineer butchers it to get to 16/44.1 which can sound bad, then they distribute it on a CD which sounds even worse. 

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11 minutes ago, sandyk said:

IF the title track for example, didn't have such an overblown wide soundstage and extra sibilance to her voice as many CDs of that era have, and ideally have the Dolby-A artifacts or added HF EQ removed  as John Dyson keeps reporting,

it MAY then have the potential to totally blow away the Vinyl version. 😉

 

Sibilance? ... What's that? - I don't have any CDs with sibilance problems ... 🤪

 

But seriously, disturbing sibilance in vocals is a giveaway that the playback is faulty - it's a form of replay distortion, and can be completely eliminated if the right efforts are made. A sign that the latest active speakers are far better engineered than setups using older components, is that my latest, value for money rig has never even hinted at such in voices - without me having to do a single thing on the inside of them, so far 🙂.

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3 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Thing is he had to use 24/192. Many ADC's seem to need higher rates to work properly, then the mastering engineer butchers it to get to 16/44.1 which can sound bad, then they distribute it on a CD which sounds even worse. 

 

Barry Diament reports that 24/192 sounds like his microphone feed.

The recordings on CD do not normally start out in anywhere near 24/192 resolution, with many these days starting out as 24/44.1. 

High Res releases from HD Tracks etc. in 24/192 are usually sourced from Tape, with rarely much more than 30kHZ HF information due to the limitations of both the microphones and Tape medium.

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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I have plenty of CDs which are needledrops - one, a cheapy, ripoff collection of classic C&W tracks, which I regularly use for checking playback quality - depending on the status of the latter, you can be almost oblivious to the vinyl noise captured - or, be fully aware of the constant tiny ticks and pops through the tracks ...

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12 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Sibilance? ... What's that? - I don't have any CDs with sibilance problems ... 🤪

 Absolute Bulldust ! 🤣

Your digital setup is presently obviously incapable of the needed resolution to highlight these niggling problems just as you used to claim that Abba etc. didn't need much of that added HF EQ removed.

Kenny Rogers-The Gambler (and others) have annoying sibilance as do some from Simon and Garfunkel , for starters .

https://www.dropbox.com/s/27zix27xhm9k9g0/01 Simon %26 Garfunkel.wav?dl=0

 

BTW, how do you normally play your " sibilance free" CDs ? 😊

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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15 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Barry Diament reports that 24/192 sounds like his microphone feed.

The recordings on CD do not normally start out in anywhere near 24/192 resolution, with many these days starting out as 24/44.1. 

High Res releases from HD Tracks etc. in 24/192 are usually sourced from Tape, with rarely much more than 30kHZ HF information due to the limitations of both the microphones and Tape medium.

 

24/192 is no guarantee of quality though, Linn Records changed their ADC and got much better sound:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/philip-hobbs-linn-records-recording-dunedin-consort

 

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2 hours ago, fas42 said:

Just checked out the Shelby Lynne version ... umm, I think I'll put up with Dusty, if you don't mind ... 😁.

 

 

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

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3 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

 

 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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11 minutes ago, Rexp said:

24/192 is no guarantee of quality though, Linn Records changed their ADC and got much better sound:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/philip-hobbs-linn-records-recording-dunedin-consort

 

 Barry upgraded the clocking of his Metric Halo ULN8 to ULN-8 3D specification and from Firewire to Ethernet with markedly improved results . 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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4 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Unfortunately, "Video unavailable", from here ...

 

Something to Be Said About Airstreams

 

The longer I live the more I'm amazed
How folks get hooked on the latest craze
I want to get away from all the hassles
But I'm a little burned out on castles
Guess it's that time again
Time to be free again.

There's something to be said about Airstreams
A rolling home made out of silver
There's something to be said about Airstreams
Aww who'da thought art, was a trailer.

Over the hill, a paper sack
I want me a big ol' Cadillac
To haul all my demons and dreams and
Listen to silence
Maybe I'll stop in Needles
Say hello to my people.

There's something to be said about Airstreams
A rolling home made out of silver
There's something to be said about Airstreams
Aww who'da thought art, was a trailer.

When the sun hits her right,
She'll blind you with her light
A beacon of royalty, ooooh
Yeah she's like a Van Gogh
Or an old Picasso
Oh what a sight to see

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

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14 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Comments ...?

 It sounds a little lacklustre compared with the CD version, HOWEVER, the added sibilance with her voice of the CD version isn't there.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Sibilance? ... What's that? - I don't have any CDs with sibilance problems ... 🤪

 

But seriously, disturbing sibilance in vocals is a giveaway that the playback is faulty - it's a form of replay distortion, and can be completely eliminated if the right efforts are made. A sign that the latest active speakers are far better engineered than setups using older components, is that my latest, value for money rig has never even hinted at such in voices - without me having to do a single thing on the inside of them, so far 🙂.

 

Some people have sibilance naturally in their voices. My speaking and singing voice has very bad sibilance, especially when I pronounce the letter "S", it's even worse at the end of a word.

 

If a singer has natural sibilance in their voice I want that reproduced correctly, it's unnatural sibilance I don't want. If the sibilance is too strong some frequencies are emphasized more than others. Unless I see the singer live it's hard to tell if the sibilance is natural or not. If you hear no sibilance from anyone you are not reproducing the upper midrange correctly.

I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

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25 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Tidal version is unlistenable, suspect CD would be the same. 

 

The CD version has qualities in the mastering, which can create disturbing listening - this occurs because the signature distortion of the replay is 'in conflict' with those of the mastering - "they rub each other the wrong way". My rig two rounds ago, based on a Philips HT box, was highly marginal with this CD - it had to be on its best behaviour to not show issues when playing the tracks from this album.

 

By comparison, the Edifiers were a walk in the park ... why? Well, the current setup has a different collection of weaknesses, which just happen to balance with the characteristics of that recording - no unpleasantness, at all. ... Call it "synergy", if you like, 🙂.

 

The end goal is to have zero signature of the reproduction chain - it's evenhanded with everything; and thereby every recording 'works' ...

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11 minutes ago, Teresa said:

 

 

 

Some people have sibilance naturally in their voices. My speaking and singing voice has very bad sibilance, especially when I pronounce the letter "S", it's even worse at the end of a word.

 

If a singer has natural sibilance in their voice I want that reproduced correctly, it's unnatural sibilance I don't want. If the sibilance is too strong some frequencies are emphasized more than others. Unless I see the singer live it's hard to tell if the sibilance is natural or not. If you hear no sibilance from anyone you are not reproducing the upper midrange correctly.

 

Agree. Which is why I used the term "disturbing sibilance" - another way of saying, "unnatural sibilance"; or Alex's, "extra sibilance".

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16 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Tidal version is unlistenable, suspect CD would be the same. 

 Except perhaps to Frank ? 😉

 

7 minutes ago, Teresa said:

 

 

 

Some people have sibilance naturally in their voices. My speaking and singing voice has very bad sibilance, especially when I pronounce the letter "S", it's even worse at the end of a word.

 

If a singer has natural sibilance in their voice I want that reproduced correctly, it's unnatural sibilance I don't want. If the sibilance is too strong some frequencies are emphasized more than others. Unless I see the singer live it's hard to tell if the sibilance is natural or not. If you hear no sibilance from anyone you are not reproducing the upper midrange correctly.

Teresa

Many of the Carpenters CD releases have excessive sibilance, which is evident if you compare it with some of their stuff from Quad tape . Some of Kenny Rogers tracks sound like he is spitting through false teeth, but poor mic technique may be also contributing, with poor CD mastering highlighting it .

If you were able to listen to the Simon and Garfunkel track that I posted I am sure that you would agree that they would never have become famous if they really sounded like that. 

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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7 minutes ago, sandyk said:

If you were able to listen to the Simon and Garfunkel track that I posted I am sure that you would agree that they would never have become famous if they really sounded like that. 

 

This posting editor behaves in bizarre ways at time ... clicked Submit Reply - and it spat the dummy; claimed "This field is required." ... whatever that means.

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15 minutes ago, Rexp said:

No, the distortion is baked into the recording, you just can't hear lt. 

 

Of course distortion is baked into the recording - no set of equipment is perfect, and can never be so. What you're missing is that the ear/brain can compensate, if its ability to do so is not overloaded. Adding a heavy layer of distortion via the weaknesses in the playback chain is guaranteed to trigger overload - and it sounds awful!

 

Which means, you attenuate the distortion you can control, in the replay equipment, as much as possible. Which is why people have magic listening sessions with recordings that are technically pretty awful - the listening mind "fills the gaps"; and you enjoy what you're hearing.

 

Analogy: get a beautiful girl, and shine a powerful light on her face; and move in really, really close to her skin - yuck !!! Looks awful! - where's the beauty gone, now?

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25 minutes ago, sandyk said:

If you were able to listen to the Simon and Garfunkel track that I posted I am sure that you would agree that they would never have become famous if they really sounded like that. 

 

Just to say, Simon and Garfunkel tracks are some of my all time favourites - this stuff is brilliant to listen to, on a capable setup.

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Some masters are in very bad shape - this is on a compilation I have, of local hits - and it stands out as being of severely degraded quality, in comparison to all the other tracks on the CD. It is almost impossible to get it to sound any better than how it comes across here,

 

 

 

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