sandyk Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 55 minutes ago, fas42 said: Far superior, to what that vinyl YT clip conveys - string backing sings; depth, ambience, imaging of the parts in the mix very nicely defined; couldn't ask more from the soundstaging ... who needs vinyl? 😀 IF the title track for example, didn't have such an overblown wide soundstage and extra sibilance to her voice as many CDs of that era have, and ideally have the Dolby-A artifacts or added HF EQ removed as John Dyson keeps reporting, it MAY then have the potential to totally blow away the Vinyl version. 😉 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Rexp Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 3 hours ago, firedog said: Then you are doing it poorly. Well done needle drops are indistinguishable from the original. They sound just like vinyl. I suggest you read JA's review of the Ayre ADC from a few years ago: he said, "but there was no doubt that with a 192kHz sample rate I could not distinguish between the LP and the digital rip. And believe me, I tried. I A/B'd the two versions until blood came out of my ears". You get all the sound of vinyl, even the surface noise, tonearm induced distortion, etc. Thing is he had to use 24/192. Many ADC's seem to need higher rates to work properly, then the mastering engineer butchers it to get to 16/44.1 which can sound bad, then they distribute it on a CD which sounds even worse. Teresa 1 Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, sandyk said: IF the title track for example, didn't have such an overblown wide soundstage and extra sibilance to her voice as many CDs of that era have, and ideally have the Dolby-A artifacts or added HF EQ removed as John Dyson keeps reporting, it MAY then have the potential to totally blow away the Vinyl version. 😉 Sibilance? ... What's that? - I don't have any CDs with sibilance problems ... 🤪 But seriously, disturbing sibilance in vocals is a giveaway that the playback is faulty - it's a form of replay distortion, and can be completely eliminated if the right efforts are made. A sign that the latest active speakers are far better engineered than setups using older components, is that my latest, value for money rig has never even hinted at such in voices - without me having to do a single thing on the inside of them, so far 🙂. Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Rexp said: Thing is he had to use 24/192. Many ADC's seem to need higher rates to work properly, then the mastering engineer butchers it to get to 16/44.1 which can sound bad, then they distribute it on a CD which sounds even worse. Barry Diament reports that 24/192 sounds like his microphone feed. The recordings on CD do not normally start out in anywhere near 24/192 resolution, with many these days starting out as 24/44.1. High Res releases from HD Tracks etc. in 24/192 are usually sourced from Tape, with rarely much more than 30kHZ HF information due to the limitations of both the microphones and Tape medium. Teresa 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 I have plenty of CDs which are needledrops - one, a cheapy, ripoff collection of classic C&W tracks, which I regularly use for checking playback quality - depending on the status of the latter, you can be almost oblivious to the vinyl noise captured - or, be fully aware of the constant tiny ticks and pops through the tracks ... Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, fas42 said: Sibilance? ... What's that? - I don't have any CDs with sibilance problems ... 🤪 Absolute Bulldust ! 🤣 Your digital setup is presently obviously incapable of the needed resolution to highlight these niggling problems just as you used to claim that Abba etc. didn't need much of that added HF EQ removed. Kenny Rogers-The Gambler (and others) have annoying sibilance as do some from Simon and Garfunkel , for starters . https://www.dropbox.com/s/27zix27xhm9k9g0/01 Simon %26 Garfunkel.wav?dl=0 BTW, how do you normally play your " sibilance free" CDs ? 😊 Teresa 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Rexp Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, sandyk said: Barry Diament reports that 24/192 sounds like his microphone feed. The recordings on CD do not normally start out in anywhere near 24/192 resolution, with many these days starting out as 24/44.1. High Res releases from HD Tracks etc. in 24/192 are usually sourced from Tape, with rarely much more than 30kHZ HF information due to the limitations of both the microphones and Tape medium. 24/192 is no guarantee of quality though, Linn Records changed their ADC and got much better sound: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/philip-hobbs-linn-records-recording-dunedin-consort sandyk 1 Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, fas42 said: Just checked out the Shelby Lynne version ... umm, I think I'll put up with Dusty, if you don't mind ... 😁. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, kumakuma said: How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, Rexp said: 24/192 is no guarantee of quality though, Linn Records changed their ADC and got much better sound: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/philip-hobbs-linn-records-recording-dunedin-consort Barry upgraded the clocking of his Metric Halo ULN8 to ULN-8 3D specification and from Firewire to Ethernet with markedly improved results . How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, kumakuma said: Unfortunately, "Video unavailable", from here ... Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Completely OT, I just had YT recommend to me, I likee ... 😉 kumakuma 1 Link to comment
kumakuma Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, fas42 said: Unfortunately, "Video unavailable", from here ... Something to Be Said About Airstreams The longer I live the more I'm amazed How folks get hooked on the latest craze I want to get away from all the hassles But I'm a little burned out on castles Guess it's that time again Time to be free again. There's something to be said about Airstreams A rolling home made out of silver There's something to be said about Airstreams Aww who'da thought art, was a trailer. Over the hill, a paper sack I want me a big ol' Cadillac To haul all my demons and dreams and Listen to silence Maybe I'll stop in Needles Say hello to my people. There's something to be said about Airstreams A rolling home made out of silver There's something to be said about Airstreams Aww who'da thought art, was a trailer. When the sun hits her right, She'll blind you with her light A beacon of royalty, ooooh Yeah she's like a Van Gogh Or an old Picasso Oh what a sight to see fas42 1 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 14 hours ago, fas42 said: Comments ...? It sounds a little lacklustre compared with the CD version, HOWEVER, the added sibilance with her voice of the CD version isn't there. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Rexp Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, sandyk said: It sounds a little lacklustre compared with the CD version, HOWEVER, the added sibilance with her voice of the CD version isn't there. Tidal version is unlistenable, suspect CD would be the same. Link to comment
Teresa Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 hour ago, fas42 said: Sibilance? ... What's that? - I don't have any CDs with sibilance problems ... 🤪 But seriously, disturbing sibilance in vocals is a giveaway that the playback is faulty - it's a form of replay distortion, and can be completely eliminated if the right efforts are made. A sign that the latest active speakers are far better engineered than setups using older components, is that my latest, value for money rig has never even hinted at such in voices - without me having to do a single thing on the inside of them, so far 🙂. Some people have sibilance naturally in their voices. My speaking and singing voice has very bad sibilance, especially when I pronounce the letter "S", it's even worse at the end of a word. If a singer has natural sibilance in their voice I want that reproduced correctly, it's unnatural sibilance I don't want. If the sibilance is too strong some frequencies are emphasized more than others. Unless I see the singer live it's hard to tell if the sibilance is natural or not. If you hear no sibilance from anyone you are not reproducing the upper midrange correctly. I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, Rexp said: Tidal version is unlistenable, suspect CD would be the same. The CD version has qualities in the mastering, which can create disturbing listening - this occurs because the signature distortion of the replay is 'in conflict' with those of the mastering - "they rub each other the wrong way". My rig two rounds ago, based on a Philips HT box, was highly marginal with this CD - it had to be on its best behaviour to not show issues when playing the tracks from this album. By comparison, the Edifiers were a walk in the park ... why? Well, the current setup has a different collection of weaknesses, which just happen to balance with the characteristics of that recording - no unpleasantness, at all. ... Call it "synergy", if you like, 🙂. The end goal is to have zero signature of the reproduction chain - it's evenhanded with everything; and thereby every recording 'works' ... Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, Teresa said: Some people have sibilance naturally in their voices. My speaking and singing voice has very bad sibilance, especially when I pronounce the letter "S", it's even worse at the end of a word. If a singer has natural sibilance in their voice I want that reproduced correctly, it's unnatural sibilance I don't want. If the sibilance is too strong some frequencies are emphasized more than others. Unless I see the singer live it's hard to tell if the sibilance is natural or not. If you hear no sibilance from anyone you are not reproducing the upper midrange correctly. Agree. Which is why I used the term "disturbing sibilance" - another way of saying, "unnatural sibilance"; or Alex's, "extra sibilance". Teresa 1 Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, Rexp said: Tidal version is unlistenable, suspect CD would be the same. Except perhaps to Frank ? 😉 7 minutes ago, Teresa said: Some people have sibilance naturally in their voices. My speaking and singing voice has very bad sibilance, especially when I pronounce the letter "S", it's even worse at the end of a word. If a singer has natural sibilance in their voice I want that reproduced correctly, it's unnatural sibilance I don't want. If the sibilance is too strong some frequencies are emphasized more than others. Unless I see the singer live it's hard to tell if the sibilance is natural or not. If you hear no sibilance from anyone you are not reproducing the upper midrange correctly. Teresa Many of the Carpenters CD releases have excessive sibilance, which is evident if you compare it with some of their stuff from Quad tape . Some of Kenny Rogers tracks sound like he is spitting through false teeth, but poor mic technique may be also contributing, with poor CD mastering highlighting it . If you were able to listen to the Simon and Garfunkel track that I posted I am sure that you would agree that they would never have become famous if they really sounded like that. Teresa 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post Rexp Posted January 17, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, fas42 said: The CD version has qualities in the mastering, which can create disturbing listening - this occurs because the signature distortion of the replay is 'in conflict' with those of the mastering - "they rub each other the wrong way". My rig two rounds ago, based on a Philips HT box, was highly marginal with this CD - it has to be on its best behaviour to not show issues when playing the tracks from this album. By comparison, the Edifiers were a walk in the park ... why? Well, the current setup has a different collection of weaknesses, which just happen to balance with the characteristics of that recording - no unpleasantness, at all. ... Call it "synergy", if you like, 🙂. The end goal is to have zero signature of the reproduction chain - it's evenhanded with everything; and thereby every recording 'works' ... No, the distortion is baked into the recording, you just can't hear lt. Teresa and sandyk 2 Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, sandyk said: If you were able to listen to the Simon and Garfunkel track that I posted I am sure that you would agree that they would never have become famous if they really sounded like that. This posting editor behaves in bizarre ways at time ... clicked Submit Reply - and it spat the dummy; claimed "This field is required." ... whatever that means. Link to comment
Popular Post EvilTed Posted January 17, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 17, 2021 4 hours ago, fas42 said: Have never got the Linn thing ... I recall going to an ambitious hifi show in Sydney in the 80's - and it had the typical full of attitude Linn demonstrator in the room with all the 'correct' associated gear ... it sounded truly, truly awful - ummm, give me back the little HMV all-in-one valve unit from my childhood, please 😉. That's because Linn was garbage in the 80s. I bought a Pink Triangle in preference and took it to a Linn dealer. I came away with a Rega RB300 and a Linn Asak MC cartridge. The dealer started stocking Pink Triangle after hearing my turntable :) Rexp and fas42 1 1 Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, Rexp said: No, the distortion is baked into the recording, you just can't hear lt. Of course distortion is baked into the recording - no set of equipment is perfect, and can never be so. What you're missing is that the ear/brain can compensate, if its ability to do so is not overloaded. Adding a heavy layer of distortion via the weaknesses in the playback chain is guaranteed to trigger overload - and it sounds awful! Which means, you attenuate the distortion you can control, in the replay equipment, as much as possible. Which is why people have magic listening sessions with recordings that are technically pretty awful - the listening mind "fills the gaps"; and you enjoy what you're hearing. Analogy: get a beautiful girl, and shine a powerful light on her face; and move in really, really close to her skin - yuck !!! Looks awful! - where's the beauty gone, now? Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, sandyk said: If you were able to listen to the Simon and Garfunkel track that I posted I am sure that you would agree that they would never have become famous if they really sounded like that. Just to say, Simon and Garfunkel tracks are some of my all time favourites - this stuff is brilliant to listen to, on a capable setup. Link to comment
fas42 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Some masters are in very bad shape - this is on a compilation I have, of local hits - and it stands out as being of severely degraded quality, in comparison to all the other tracks on the CD. It is almost impossible to get it to sound any better than how it comes across here, Link to comment
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