Analog: Still Better?

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, One and a half said:

Hello, it's usually mastered with more compression and more loudness.

 

This must be from a Vinyl rip then ? 😋

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vqmvxf2ytaop9l2/06 - I Fall To Pieces.flac?dl=0

[sandyk]

20 minutes ago, One and a half said:

That piece, scores a JRMC DR10 doesn't have a very good frequency range which tanks at 15kHz and over to the deep dark sea, which is the upper limit of FM broadcasts oddly enough I Fall to Pieces appears on Sausalito 73, similar frequency response.

The track could have come from the Sausalito CD or the LP from the same source, FM broadcast. considering its age, there's no crackles or surface noise unless it's being removed with this tool or something similar. 

 Check out how young she looks ! This is from her self titled album

 

[sandyk]

8 hours ago, One and a half said:

When the Swing Out Sister Kaleidoscope World Fontana release from 1989 on LP and CD, the CD is DULL compared with the LP. LP has sparkle, the opening to Where in the World xylophone is background on CD, LP is right in front. The Japan 2010 SHM-CD release fares worse, nowhere near enough to the LP. If I hear the album on digital, I need to listen to the LP to 'kill the taste' of digital. 

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dm69qn1s7667d33/Swing Out Sister - Where in the world (1989 Radical mix)-0x0002.wav?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wi4ep30eq3snld/The Kaleidoscope Affair-0x0002.wav?dl=0

[sandyk]

18 minutes ago, One and a half said:

What's the point here?

 

Just to give those like myself, who haven't heard of this album a rough idea of it.

I left the 0x0002 in the names to indicate that it was only from a YouTube stream and not from the  the real CD

[sandyk]

9 hours ago, One and a half said:

Well Youtube need to pick up their game, oh wait, you have to pay for that, will that give at least 20-20k bandwidth, probably not.

Gary

 What you heard was from the 0x0002 529kb/s .aac Subscription audio stream that can be extracted after downloading the video with suitable Video S/W.

Compare that sound with the direct video that I posted. Would you rather  base a CD purchasing decision on the video alone , or from the 529kb/s stream to try and see if it sounds worthwhile ?

 

Alex

 

 

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

This question is meaningless as, in my experience, the masterings of CD and SACD releases of the same album are rarely the same.

 

Yeah. The SACD has a lot of out of band HF rubbish, with in quite a few cases no further HF detail than the CD version 😋

Quite a few members (and especially several ex members) appear to believe that the human ear isn't capable of hearing any further HF detail than available on CD anyway other than perhaps some young females 😄

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Big Hint: digital SQ suffers when static buildup occurs, and is not handled in some manner. Best solution is to carefully investigate every area of the rig, and use whatever treatments, adjustments, and organising that prevent, or control charging behaviours.

 

 Huh ??? 

Did you rub the CDs first with a polyester jumper ?  😁

Several years ago Silverlight (Geoff) from NYC did a series of tests with me including Cleaning fluids ,demagnetising ,deionising etc.

 yet we both preferred the uploaded version where the CD was cleaned with warm soapy water and rinsed  properly.

 BTW, many members spend only a fraction of the amount on the digital side compared with what they spend on TTs ,stand alone Low noise RIAA Preamps  and high quality cartridges etc. then blame the digital side.

[sandyk]

29 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Well, at one stage I worked out a whole ritual of how a CD was taken from its case, and placed in the player, and how play was started 😁 - to minimise chances of static being transferred to the disc. For example, I used a version of this in the NAD CDP, in the setup of a year or so ago. Did it make a difference? A couple of times it seemed to help - so I kept it up ... no rigorous testing, though.

 

From how the mains plugs are inserted in the wall socket, through to the mounting of the speakers, static might cause an issue - I assume that any and everything could play a role; until I convince myself that no change can be heard when I try varying something.

 

 How can any static electricity on a disc affect a Laser Diode or the mechanism unless the CD is poorly held in place ?

 

 Static from the above stated by you is unlikely to be generated unless there is a poor connection, and this would be even worse with low level analogue sources such as LP..

You can do better than that Frank !  😄

[sandyk]

27 minutes ago, Confused said:

 

Is there a way to extract the vinyl version from YouTube?

 

 The Vinyl version audio will have been digitised to both <128kb/s and normally as well as a 529kb/s hidden .aac audio.stream (0x0002)

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, kumakuma said:

 

Lose the spinning discs and static electricity is much less of an issue.

 That's if it EVER was an issue.  Extracting the contents and playing them from system memory, whether in an electrically  quiet PC or a dedicated CD player such as the P.W.T CD player will fix those issues .

 Where you WILL see far more evidence of static electricity is on a VINYL Record as the stylus collects detritus from even what appears to be a clean record !!!. 

[sandyk]

13 hours ago, One and a half said:

No, the original purchased CD or SACD with jewel box, glossy paper et al, played in an appropriate player like in my profile. when a DSD_DISC is created, the dsf sounds better on the SACD player than they do from digital chain from computer and IT network. By better I mean less annoying to listen to.

 

 Has this situation improved since your recent earthing improvements in your PC  ?

Playing DSD via the Network opens up another can of worms that you may need to further address.. 😉

[sandyk]

43 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Of course being a physical CD or DSD or SACD makes the bits none the less digital.

 

Jon 

Are you doubting that Gary is hearing the exact same bits whether played directly from the disc or over his network ?

Perhaps you are insinuating that his SACD player MUST have a higher quality Analogue output  stage ? 

 

BTW,  For those of you who insist that LP sounds better than Digital, and you have the LP of Norah Jones-Come Away With Me., compare the attached with your vinyl playback.
IF the LP sounds better, then you have REAL problems in your digital area !!! 

You will need to download the file and play using high quality S/W such as JRiver 26

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwmqtvh3wqflqbx/05.Come AwayWith Me.zip?dl=0

[sandyk]

19 minutes ago, Rexp said:

I did an lp v CD of this album a while back, lp won easily. Which version is this file sourced from? Some say the AP SACD matches the vinyl. 

 

This was sourced from the RBCD track of the Blue Note SACD 7243 5 41747 2 8 , and was a fresh rip after improving the earthing area of my PC as recommended by one and a half

 

If this doesn't crap all over the LP, then you either prefer colouration, or you need to spend almost as much on your digital area as you have on your vinyl gear. 😋

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

I don't doubt his preference, but my system and preferences are different. To each his own.

 

FWIW each DAC uses its own filters, and HQPlayer has its own  filters, so there is no reason to expect that the analogue output will ever be the same.

 I was under the impression that the goal was to achieve results that accurately reflected the intentions of the Mastering Engineer, not just something more pleasing to some.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Rexp said:

The question is, is this RBCD version ever going to sound good or is distortion baked into it. 

 

 That depends mainly on the Mastering Engineer and the intended market

 Try downloading my example as suggested, and if your Digital side is good enough it should outperform the Vinyl version with it's of necessity vastly inferior channel separation, much poorer S/N, Wow and Flutter, etc., etc. as well as modified low end to prevent groove width problems . The HF part will depend on how many times you have played it too.

[sandyk]

27 minutes ago, One and a half said:

One can also rip an SACD ISO or download DSF to create a DSD_DISC, brew your own playlist just as simple as a CD. It is not necessary or desirable to convert to PCM (Rebook) to do so.

 

 Unfortunately, not all hardware players will play those. I had to use unofficial S/W to enable my Oppo 103 to play them,

 I still preferred the RBCD of Love Over Gold though. I suspect that it was due to the out of band HF residual  of the SACD.

[sandyk]

39 minutes ago, One and a half said:

The LP is from Blue note EU 243-5-32088-1 2004, probably re-issued

 

 In which case it is probably derived from the same master as my Hybrid SACD that I uploaded the track from. 

 Unfortunately, the UL doesn't sound as good, even after downloading again, as the original source track. 

Norah Jones ‎– Come Away With Me

Label:

Blue Note ‎– 7243 5 41747 2 8

Format:

SACD, Album, Hybrid, Multichannel

Country:

US

Released:

2003

Genre:

Jazz

Style:

Contemporary Jazz

 

[sandyk]

20 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Apparently the Bluenote SACD came from the Redbook (shock horror), whereas the vinyl and AP SACD came from the Analog master. 

 The attached is VERY interesting !

 Where is the normal RBCD  HF roll off BEFORE 22kHz ???

[sandyk]

This is what I meant about the look of a typical CD.(Fleetwood Mac-Dreams)

Note the roll off well before 22kHz

( Click on my images a few times to get a full screen image)

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Rexp said:

Yes I got that, my plot says the same occurs with your file, doesn't it? 

 

Or have I lost the plot? 

Have you tried using the file that I uploaded ?

 Yours appears to have a premature HF roll off. Perhaps due to being processed, or a very different copy.

[sandyk]

Then perhaps our settings are calibrated differently ?

 I normally don't see anything past much more than 19kHz with most RBCD albums , just like Dreams that I showed.

 

G'night !

[sandyk]

4 hours ago, GUTB said:

Impressions of this album so far is Norah's voice is perhaps a little too hot / forward,

 How do you find the track that I uploaded  in that respect ?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwmqtvh3wqflqbx/05.Come AwayWith Me.zip?dl=0

 

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, Steve B said:

Is this from an 80s CD mastering? I’d be surprised if a 2000s remastering CD didn’t have more content above 20 K

 What I posted was typical of that era, Yes, they have markedly improved their anti- aliasing filters in more recent years, with Diana Krall-The Girl in the Other Room, for example  getting  close ro 22kHz.

Quote

Aliasing would be a big problem for digital audio, because it is usually not desired for frequencies to change in a signal. ... This component is called an anti-aliasing filter. Conceptually, the anti-aliasing filter blocks frequencies above the Nyquist frequency from being converted. (22.05kHz)

 

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

. Differences you hear are more likely due to actual differences in the DAC hardware e.g. modulators and filters. 

 No. Recently Gary asked me to check that the cases of my internal SSDs  had a VERY low resistance to the 0 volrs (Earth) of my PCs internal PSU as he had obtained a marked improvement in Soundstage and overall quality by doing so.

I duplicated Gary's results after markedly reducing the mV readings between the internal SSD/HDDs cases and the Earth of the PSU itself as he suggested . 

(The 0 Volts {Earth}  of SSDs/HDD  are internally connected to their cases)

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, hopkins said:

P. S. I use both digital and analog. The point is just to be realistic and informed (not delusional) about the limitations.

You appear to be a wee bit the other way as shown by the  choice of these components.

 

Quote

EAR 912 tube phono preamp

Mullard 6922 NOS phono-stage tubes

 They don't come even close to the S/N of a very good Solid State RIAA phono Preamp, and by this I don't mean a  typical  modern I.C. implementation.

As for heaps of valve "goodness" A.K.A. ,  Euphony or warmth as distinct from accuracy . . . . ..

If you want those qualities you could have used a F.E.T based Phono Preamp and achieved an even better S/N as well.

P.S. 

Unfortunately, many of our favourite recordings in Digital were created using an immature technology, compared with an existing mature technology