Analog: Still Better?

[EvilTed]

I guess it depends upon what you call "better"?

 

If you are like me and you enjoy the tone from Koetsu cartridges and tube phono stages more than you enjoy removing the preamp and playing digital straight, then yes.

 

In my system, with a good recording that has been spotlessly cleaned it engages at an emotional level that digital does not.

It shouldn't (in theory) but it does.

 

Maybe it's being brought up on analog sound and never liking CDs when they came out?

Others will say it's all the distortion that the tubes and cartridges etc add.

I'm sorry, but it's much more than the some of its parts.

When analog is right it is so much better.

 

Analog

SME 30/2 + SME V (custom static balance only + mono crystal internal cable) + Koetsu Onyx Platinum + Audio Sensibility Statement OCC silver cable.

 

EAR 912 tube phono preamp

Mullard 6922 NOS phono-stage tubes

Amperex 6922 PQ pinched waist line-stage tubes

 

Digital

Lumin X1 + Audio Sensibility Statement OCC Silver DC cable + Roon (Tidal, Qoboz, Spotify Premium).

 

 

 

 

[EvilTed]

6 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 They don't come even close to the S/N of a very good Solid State RIAA phono Preamp, and by this I don't mean a  typical  modern I.C. implementation.

As for heaps of valve "goodness" A.K.A. ,  Euphony or warmth as distinct from accuracy . . . . ..

If you want those qualities you could have used a F.E.T based Phono Preamp and achieved an even better S/N as well.

P.S. 

Unfortunately, many of our favourite recordings in Digital were created using an immature technology, compared with an existing mature technology 

 

@sandyk

 

Description: Tubed stereo preamplifier. Tube complement: five 7DJ8/PCC88. Phono inputs: 2. Line inputs: 2 balanced, 3 unbalanced. Tape loops: 1. Outputs: 1 balanced, 1 unbalanced. Input impedances, phono: 47k ohms, moving-magnet; 3, 6, 12, or 40 ohms, moving-coil. Output impedance: 600 ohms. Line-stage gain: 14dB. Phono-stage gain: 50–80dB. Signal/noise ratio: 68dB phono (ref. 2.4mV), 90dB line (ref. 1V). Frequency response: 20Hz–20kHz, –0.3dB. Distortion: <0.1% at 1kHz, 3V output. Phase-inverting: No. No, no, no.

 

The EAR 912 is famous for being one of the best, class A phono preamps available.

It is transformer coupled from phono stage to line stage and from line stage to output.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By comparison, the moving coil S/N of 7 Stereophile A and A+ phono preamps are reviewed here:

 

http://lkvresearch.blogspot.com/2015/02/updated-comparison-of-sn-ratio-in-7.html

 

2 are slightly better than the EAR 912 and 5 are worse.

However, since EAR use SUTs internally there is no noise background noise, even with very high gain. 

EAR amplifiers are not euphonic or warm sounding. They are very clean and more akin to solid state than a traditional warm tube sound.

 

From Stereophile's review, even better measurements that use the same 0.5mV input volume as the tests above.

With these measurements, the EAR 912 is the quietest.

 

"The 912’s phono-stage signal/noise ratios were excellent. In MM mode, the Aweighted ratio was 81dB (ref. 1kHz at 5mV), this decreasing to a still good 67.7dB, wideband, unweighted. Due to the 912’s use of a transformer to provide the additional gain required, the MC mode’s S/N ratios were not appreciably different, at 79.7dB and 66.7dB, respectively (both figures referred to 1kHz at 500µV). This is a superbly quiet preamp."

 

http://www.evalitec.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/912-Stereophile.pdf

 

 

Wash that foot before you put it in your mouth :)

[EvilTed]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

 

As mentioned in several posts now, I have an audio friend nearby, who does both vinyl and digital. And I've been tracking how his systems have performed over many years. His vinyl at its best is as good as I have ever heard vinyl - meaning, effectively convincing sound. And his digital, especially lately, is working at the same levels.

 

A standard thing we did, was that when I arrived, we would do a run around of all the potential setups he could demonstrate - and the one that showed the best potential would be that which "would be worked on"; forget about the others, for the rest of the day. Quite often it was vinyl; and the other times it would be a digital combo that showed the greatest promise.

 

 

That means, there are no simple answers - the best SQ comes from the setup which is best sorted - at that moment. Which could be analog - or digital.

 

Frank,

 

Let's get this right.

Your frame of reference for high end vinyl playback is your home made phono preamp that you figure to be better than many state of the art references and your mate up the road that has a vinyl rig?

Forgive me for not believing any of the perls of wisdom that you seem to want everyone else to swallow.

 

If you get hours of fun tweaking each others gear, more power to you m8.

I guess it gives you something to do on a weekend.

I just listen to music :)

[EvilTed]

4 hours ago, Confused said:

So an open question to anyone.  What would be the expected result here if I made a "needle drop" digital copy of the subject vinyl recording and played this back via the digital side of the system?

It will sound like digital

[EvilTed]

4 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Have never got the Linn thing ... I recall going to an ambitious hifi show in Sydney in the 80's - and it had the typical full of attitude Linn demonstrator in the room with all the 'correct' associated gear ... it sounded truly, truly awful - ummm, give me back the little HMV all-in-one valve unit from my childhood, please 😉.

That's because Linn was garbage in the 80s.
I bought a Pink Triangle in preference and took it to a Linn dealer.

I came away with a Rega RB300 and a Linn Asak MC cartridge.

The dealer started stocking Pink Triangle after hearing my turntable :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EvilTed]

Are you guys still arguing over this?

I've been buying up rare records on Discogs and reliving my youth :)

[EvilTed]

You guys are getting way too analytical over something that is more emotional.

It either sounds better or it does not.

 

We use the same judgement call when we buy any equipment, be they speakers, amps, cables, whatever.

 

I have an Lumin X1 and I have a great turntable.

The turntable sounds better.

I also do not care at all for LeedH or any form of straight digital into my amps.

It sounds flat, 2D and boring to me.
Yes, I've tried it straight for 2 weeks and went back to the preamp.

So to the original poster.

Does analog sound better?
It depends... :)

 

Which one moves you?
Which one do you use for serious listening?
Does it make you tap your foot and have a shit eating grin on your face?
If so, then that one is better.

[EvilTed]

20 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Even the rare birds that are recorded to tape are usually transferred to digital before creating the LP. 

Not true. Coldplay's first album had a whole side that was taken from analog tape direct. That was 2002.

I buy first pressing from the days when digital wasn't even in the studio.
You need to compare apples to apples.
Maybe some of you have never heard good analog and that's the problem :)

[EvilTed]

41 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Note that "flat, 2D and boring" is standard issue digital distortion artifacts - it's a perfect parallel to people not liking vinyl, because of "pops, crackles, tracking error, vinyl roar" ... very different, but come as part of the package for the medium - unless one goes to the effort of doing enough tweaking to remove the audible symptoms of each type of misbehaviour.

Surprisingly, when you use a good high end turntable + arm + cartridge + cable + phono stage + preamp + mint condition records, there are no pops, crackles, tracking error, vinyl roar or anything else. Just inky black silence...

[EvilTed]

27 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Best sound I ever heard live: Spiritualized at a medium size club here in Seattle, 1995. I'd never really heard a high end stereo at that point, and this show was exactly what I would imagine one to sound like. Truly amazing and set a baseline for all sound to  come for me in the future.

 

Worst: Lily Allen at the Paramount Theater. I swear the sandman must have been near deaf, on something, didn't care, or all three. Spent the whole show with my fingers in my ears. 

Someone just gave me a new mastered pressing of Spiritualized's "Ladies and Gentlemen we are floating in Space" and it is breathtaking. A real journey! Fabulous vinyl.

 

https://www.vinylmeplease.com/products/spiritualized-ladies-and-gentlemen-we-are-floating-in-space

 

Lacquers Cut From Original Tapes By Barry Grint At Alchemy Mastering

[EvilTed]

34 minutes ago, March Audio said:

So what did the analogue master tape sound like?

Analog