Jump to content
IGNORED

Analog: Still Better?


Recommended Posts

So, my experiences up until now seems to clearly indicate that analog sounds better than digital. From experiences with my own system, my records produce MUCH more life-like sound, something which I characterize as a major difference in dynamic performance (note, not dynamic range). The suddenness, force, acceleration, etc, of dynamic swings. For example, someone shouting into a mic, or a strong movement of the orchestra. My digital, as resolving, as quiet, as clear as I have made it over years of tweaking, just doesn't compare; if one system sounds real and the other doesn't, the real-sounding system is superior no matter how you shake it.

 

What are others' experiences?

Link to post
Share on other sites

As I have said many, many times before, it's just harder with digital ... 😁. Reason being, that the listening mind finds it easier to forgive, compensate for the audible shortcomings of analog - a pretty good analogue will always beat a pretty good digital; a superb digital will always beat a superb analogue - the margins of 'error' that matter most for subjective satisfaction are far tighter with digital than with analogue; it requires more effort, usually on the part of the owner, to achieve the necessary 'precision', of everything.

 

Which leads to the phenomenon of the SQ snapping into focus, for digital - if one is a tiny, tiny bit off what's required, then the realness factor doesn't kick in - it's an epiphany 😜, when one nails it ... like finally hitting the bullseye of the dartboard, after hours of practicing, trying to score in the dead centre - "a miss is as good as a mile".

Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Over and out.

.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, GUTB said:

my records produce MUCH more life-like sound


I absolutely agree.  While my interest and listening is mainly digital these days, I had my first vinyl session for about 3 weeks recently and was blown away by just how much more lifelike it sounded.  Not sure I have the right words to describe it, but it’s to do with there being a “3D” shape and  depth to the notes and a sense of overall scale to the music that I don’t get to the same extent with digital and which makes vinyl a more immersive experience.

 

My best analogy is that digital is like a technical drawing, whereas vinyl is sculpture, with the  former  being clear, clean and super detailed but not really conveying a full sense of being  in the physical presence of what is being portrayed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The audio friend up the road has both vinyl and digital setups refined to a high order - which makes it easy to compare the experiences. Over the years there has been a seesawing of which has been "top dog" - currently the analogue setup is definitely ahead. The other times occurred when the LP side had some issues; and then digital won convincingly. When both mediums are firing at close to their best there is little to choose in the sense of creating an immersive presentation - digital is usually mastered to have a bolder presentation, and so wins in that sense.

 

Warmup time for vinyl is also a consideration - takes playing of at least 4 sides for all the mechanicals, and phono preamp circuitry to fully stabilise, and the SQ potential to be close to the maximum possible.

Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Over and out.

.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

As always we are at the mercy of the recording itself, especially in popular music, a regular crap shoot.  CD's can reproduce the master tapes very well, but when the master tapes contained hiss or other abberations, careless transfers will make the sound of the CD worse than vinyl. Careless can also be pressure due to $$$ and shortcuts made, rather than 'engineering' expertise or lack of. Repeated exceptions from the likes of Bernie Grundmann whose techniques are legendary, take this release as an example.

 

I bought the Technics 1200GR with an Orofon 2M blue some time ago now and gradually built up a collection of records. Each record, even the old ones from the 70's are great sounding, but the soundstage really opened up with an Ortofon 2M Black! Where digital exceeds vinyl is with SACD, the noise floor just vanishes, but these are exceptions. like Fleetwood Mac Rumours on SACD. With good cleaning, vinyl has no perceptible surface noise when playing. If I buy a new release, it is usually on LP.

 

When the Swing Out Sister Kaleidoscope World Fontana release from 1989 on LP and CD, the CD is DULL compared with the LP. LP has sparkle, the opening to Where in the World xylophone is background on CD, LP is right in front. The Japan 2010 SHM-CD release fares worse, nowhere near enough to the LP. If I hear the album on digital, I need to listen to the LP to 'kill the taste' of digital. 

 

Digital. when all the ducks in a row work, it can sound great, variability is a problem caused by insidious background/leakage noise, imperceptible on its own, but combined with signal just screws it up. Vinyl has the advantage of true analog signals, no aliasing errors. I read an article years ago on do we need such wide channel separation and it wasn't all that necessary, but can't seem to find it now.

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, One and a half said:

As always we are at the mercy of the recording itself, especially in popular music, a regular crap shoot.  CD's can reproduce the master tapes very well, but when the master tapes contained hiss or other abberations, careless transfers will make the sound of the CD worse than vinyl. Careless can also be pressure due to $$$ and shortcuts made, rather than 'engineering' expertise or lack of. Repeated exceptions from the likes of Bernie Grundmann whose techniques are legendary, take this release as an example.

 

I bought the Technics 1200GR with an Orofon 2M blue some time ago now and gradually built up a collection of records. Each record, even the old ones from the 70's are great sounding, but the soundstage really opened up with an Ortofon 2M Black! Where digital exceeds vinyl is with SACD, the noise floor just vanishes, but these are exceptions. like Fleetwood Mac Rumours on SACD. With good cleaning, vinyl has no perceptible surface noise when playing. If I buy a new release, it is usually on LP.

 

When the Swing Out Sister Kaleidoscope World Fontana release from 1989 on LP and CD, the CD is DULL compared with the LP. LP has sparkle, the opening to Where in the World xylophone is background on CD, LP is right in front. The Japan 2010 SHM-CD release fares worse, nowhere near enough to the LP. If I hear the album on digital, I need to listen to the LP to 'kill the taste' of digital. 

 

Digital. when all the ducks in a row work, it can sound great, variability is a problem caused by insidious background/leakage noise, imperceptible on its own, but combined with signal just screws it up. Vinyl has the advantage of true analog signals, no aliasing errors. I read an article years ago on do we need such wide channel separation and it wasn't all that necessary, but can't seem to find it now.

Can you list a few CD's and SACD's that match vinyl (glare free, alive, gripping) Cheers! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Kal Rubinson said:

Why do people bother doing this?  Why does either side care?

Doing what? 

If someone has found a way of getting satisfaction from digital and analog, I want to see if I can too. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

That Swing Out Sister, Where in the World, track would be as good as any to work with - the CD sounding dull is a giveaway that the playback chain is not up to scratch ... rather than bouncing around, trying to find music that sounds goods on say digital, stick with a certain track, and use that as a reference for how you're faring - keep trying things until that particular tracks starts to come good; matches how you know it can sound, on another medium.

 

The key point is, all digital tracks should sound as good as, or better than LP versions - if they don't, that means there's a weakness in the chain; the big trick is to track down the culprit(s).

Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Over and out.

.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rexp said:

Can you list a few CD's and SACD's that match vinyl (glare free, alive, gripping) Cheers! 

Here are some SACD.

 

Aimee Mann Lost In space [MFSL] [SACD]
Fleetwood Mac Rumours [SACD] WPCR-14171 2001
Donald Fagen Nightfly [SACD] WPCR-14170 2002
Linda Ronstadt Heart Like a Wheel [MFSL] [SACD] UDSACD2190 2017

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, One and a half said:

Hello, it's usually mastered with more compression and more loudness.

 

Well, if talking about recent, pop releases you're most likely right - but I have close to zero interest in any of the output of the 'artists' over the last decade or so; I'm essentially talking of material, as released, prior to 2000.

Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Over and out.

.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, One and a half said:

Hello, it's usually mastered with more compression and more loudness.

 

This must be from a Vinyl rip then ? 😋

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vqmvxf2ytaop9l2/06 - I Fall To Pieces.flac?dl=0

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, sandyk said:

That piece, scores a JRMC DR10 doesn't have a very good frequency range which tanks at 15kHz and over to the deep dark sea, which is the upper limit of FM broadcasts oddly enough I Fall to Pieces appears on Sausalito 73, similar frequency response.

The track could have come from the Sausalito CD or the LP from the same source, FM broadcast. considering its age, there's no crackles or surface noise unless it's being removed with this tool or something similar. 

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, One and a half said:

That piece, scores a JRMC DR10 doesn't have a very good frequency range which tanks at 15kHz and over to the deep dark sea, which is the upper limit of FM broadcasts oddly enough I Fall to Pieces appears on Sausalito 73, similar frequency response.

The track could have come from the Sausalito CD or the LP from the same source, FM broadcast. considering its age, there's no crackles or surface noise unless it's being removed with this tool or something similar. 

 Check out how young she looks ! This is from her self titled album

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, fas42 said:

That Swing Out Sister, Where in the World, track would be as good as any to work with - the CD sounding dull is a giveaway that the playback chain is not up to scratch ... rather than bouncing around, trying to find music that sounds goods on say digital, stick with a certain track, and use that as a reference for how you're faring - keep trying things until that particular tracks starts to come good; matches how you know it can sound, on another medium.

 

The key point is, all digital tracks should sound as good as, or better than LP versions - if they don't, that means there's a weakness in the chain; the big trick is to track down the culprit(s).

 

Well I ordered both LP and CD of Turn up the Quiet. I noticed that an MQA version is available on Tidal so I'll be able to do a full 3-way comparison between record, CD via CD transport and high-res digital via my audio PC.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/4/2020 at 5:10 AM, GUTB said:

So, my experiences up until now seems to clearly indicate that analog sounds better than digital.


I hope all that reads this tread take time to read Romaz post here. He has a quite good explanation why one format is superior to another.
He has other very well worth reading posts as well in that tread. Like this one. As well as first post in same tread. 
 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, One and a half said:

When the Swing Out Sister Kaleidoscope World Fontana release from 1989 on LP and CD, the CD is DULL compared with the LP. LP has sparkle, the opening to Where in the World xylophone is background on CD, LP is right in front. The Japan 2010 SHM-CD release fares worse, nowhere near enough to the LP. If I hear the album on digital, I need to listen to the LP to 'kill the taste' of digital. 

 

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dm69qn1s7667d33/Swing Out Sister - Where in the world (1989 Radical mix)-0x0002.wav?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wi4ep30eq3snld/The Kaleidoscope Affair-0x0002.wav?dl=0

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sandyk said:

The 'Where in the World mix' is rubbish, not going to comment further, analog or digital it's poor. What's the point here?

 

The Kaleidoscope Affair (Instrumental)

Drop Box version spectrum analysis

image.thumb.png.a704ce0ff42ade4a94e22a3a33eca152.png

 

CD Version Track 10 (1989) Fontana

 

image.thumb.png.09a3a9431bd66068c4b00bf4b569f08e.png

 

How to capture analog? It's at the mercy of the A/D converter's limitations.

 

 

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, One and a half said:

What's the point here?

 

Just to give those like myself, who haven't heard of this album a rough idea of it.

I left the 0x0002 in the names to indicate that it was only from a YouTube stream and not from the  the real CD

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Just to give those like myself, who haven't heard of this album a rough idea of it.

I left the 0x0002 in the names to indicate that it was only from a YouTube stream and not from the  the real CD

Well Youtube need to pick up their game, oh wait, you have to pay for that, will that give at least 20-20k bandwidth, probably not.

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, One and a half said:

Hello, it's usually mastered with more compression and more loudness.

No, that is Analog. Jeez - they have to compress the highs and lows and lower stereo separation......

Current:  JRiver 26 on Win 10 PC (AMD Ryzen 5 2600 with 32 GB RAM) or Daphile on an AMD A10-5700 with 8 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Amplification - Bow Technologies Wazoo Integrated (great amp - silly name)

Speakers: Wharfedale Linton Heritage - KEF LS50 - ELAC unifi UB5's - Linn Tukans - others......

Cables: Tara Labs RCS Reference speaker cables and DiMarzio Interconnects

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...