Red Underwear, Cheap Fiats and Other Moto Stuff

[sphinxsix]

Since the 'Best vocalist' thread seems to be in a serious danger of being heavily derailed (which wasn't my intention when I mentioned 'cheap Fiat', which i think had started the process), I will allow myself to start a new thread on which, according to the OP will, nothing which is connected with underwear, cheap Fiats or other cars will be OT  

 

 

11 hours ago, accwai said:

 

 So does it have color matched underwear to look cool from below as well?

 

 

 

What does the spoiler do to improve handling?

 

As for the red underwear - the later 20V version had standard Brembo brakes as far as I remember, but I don't know if this counts..

I'm sure you could find e.g. many red Bilstein dampers if you looked under these Fiats' skirts as well.. Very sexy IMO 

 

As for the spoiler - remember problem with the first generation of Audi TT and its lack of stability at high speeds (some car journalists had some accidents related to this issue)? To improve it Audi engineers had changed the car's ESP and ASR settings, modified the suspension and added this little thing: 

 

 

which was said to add I think (I may be wrong though) about 20kg at 200km/h.

You can probably check it here if you speak German:

ttforum

Is it much or not.? I really don't know, actually. What I know is that Fiat had no problems with stability, had a really good grip for a 2 wheels drive hence I said - 'an optical must' actually the spoiler in mine was even more discreet than the one on the photo I had posted, looked probably exactly like this one:

but if you compare the car having it with the one without it..

 

BTW Audi TT had become more stable after the above mentioned changes but AFAIK probably mainly due to  the new electronics settings the new version was safer of course but didn't handle that well.. 

 

 

[fas42]

I have always been fond of the Mazda 1800, to look at - the body, designed in Italy, has always struck me as being "just right".

 

[sphinxsix]

Moving somewhat towards the high end of the price spectrum - if there was an unlimited number of zeroes on my bank account, I would probably get this one, build a private race track (and funded a forest to compensate for CO2 emission) 

 

 

 

 

[GregWormald]

8 hours ago, fas42 said:

I have always been fond of the Mazda 1800, to look at - the body, designed in Italy, has always struck me as being "just right".

 

I drove a burgundy one of those for quite a few years. Not only did it look good to me, it was fun to drive, reliable, and served my family well. Years after they were available to the public they were manufactured for the taxi trade in Japan.

[accwai]

22 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

[...] As for the spoiler - remember problem with the first generation of Audi TT and its lack of stability at high speeds (some car journalists had some accidents related to this issue)? To improve it Audi engineers had changed the car's ESP and ASR settings, modified the suspension and added this little thing: 

 

 

which was said to add I think (I may be wrong though) about 20kg at 200km/h.

 

A quick internet lookup returns something like 60/40 weight distribution on the Audi TT across generations. What's the TT's dynamic tendency in general and how does adding 20kg at 200kph play into that?

 

Quote

[...] What I know is that Fiat had no problems with stability, had a really good grip for a 2 wheels drive

 

I heard this is 2 wheel drive as well. Is the grip on it any good?

 

 

13 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

Moving somewhat towards the high end of the price spectrum - if there was an unlimited number of zeroes on my bank account, I would probably get this one, build a private race track (and funded a forest to compensate for CO2 emission) 

 

Looks like something called 918 is in Assetto Corsa's Porsche Pack 1:

 

 

 

Is it anywhere near as good as the one in your post?

[sphinxsix]

@accwai You always ask interesting but often quite difficult questions. I apologize I hate the idea of slowing down this thread but I need some more time to answer your interesting questions. Will do it a little later.

 

[AudioDoctor]

On 9/4/2020 at 9:03 AM, accwai said:

I heard this is 2 wheel drive as well. Is the grip on it any good?

 

YES! 

[AudioDoctor]

I'll take an Alfa instead...

 

 

[sphinxsix]

1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

YES! 

I believe I can assume this question has already been answered with this radical 'YES'..

 

On 9/4/2020 at 4:03 PM, accwai said:

A quick internet lookup returns something like 60/40 weight distribution on the Audi TT across generations. What's the TT's dynamic tendency in general and how does adding 20kg at 200kph play into that?

First of all I would say that quite often the situation in which rear of the car becomes more dynamic/faster than its front isn't a good thing 

As for the role of the mentioned 20kg I actually asked myself this question but I don't think I can answer it (I also didn't try to google it). On one hand it doesn't seem a lot, on the other hand - its beauty as an addition to this (IMO) interesting looking car (IMO) is doubtful. So would Audi engineers add it if it wasn't really to some degree a helpful tool for solving the above mentioned high speed stability problems.? Is it possible that its main role was simply to shout - here's improved TT which is stable at high speeds.? 

I really wonder.

 

On 9/4/2020 at 4:03 PM, accwai said:

Looks like something called 918 is in Assetto Corsa's Porsche Pack 1:

Yeah, definitely 918's design was based on the Carrera GT which IMO isn't a bad thing. I've always used to say - the maker pays for a design only once - there is really no reason for any car to look bad, regardless of its price. 

As I haven't driven any of them - I can't tell you which one would I choose if I could afford and wanted to buy one them. I think it's quite possible it would be GT though  

I guess in such case I wouldn't be the only one - the very first Google result for 'GT vs 918':

Porsche Carrera GT Vs. Porsche 918 Spyder

 

One more remark - I used to be a (quite) fast driver in the past. The first month in which I got 4 tickets for speeding in the Netherlands (4-9 km/h over the limit) had convinced me I don't need a (quite) fast car anymore 

I also was (quite) interested in cars some time ago, nowadays this interest has mostly passed, I wouldn't say I'm an expert on any category of contemporary cars, I simply become one for a moment when I need to buy one 

 

[bluesman]

Nomex underwear doesn't come in red.  Neither do serious race cars - paint is weight!  Until sponsorship money caused FISA to change the rules in the late 1960s, Ferrari told his builders to put only enough paint on the cars to comply with the FISA rule that cars had to be painted the official color of their country of origin - so they stopped spraying as soon as it was sufficiently reddish. 

 

Colin Chapman used no paint at all except when racing rules required it.  This is the 16th Lotus 7 made.  Here I'm behind the wheel at a MidOhio vintage event in 1988 shortly after I restored it.  Keeping bare alloy clean and polished is like maintaining your vinyl collection - you have to be equal parts dedicated, enthusiastic, and crazy.  I ran him for 15 years with many class wins in SVRA and VSCCA events and only one mechanical DNF (my own fault - I let my parts supplier talk me into using a timing chain with a master link.......and it broke in the first lap).

 

[sphinxsix]

Being an ex(NL!) (amateur) mountain biker - I always used to ask myself a question - why would 0,05kg of a bike's weight matter in amateur mountain biking if e.g. my weight can change in at least 5kg range..? When I wanted a really good saddle I simply took 4 models from a dealer and went for a ride, changing them every 10km to see how they 'feel'. Not even once asked myself - which one is lighter and I think my lower back is still grateful for this approach 

A professional level is obviously a whole different story.

BTW do they already make driver shoes with carbon fiber laces.? 

 

[bluesman]

7 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

BTW do they already make driver shoes with carbon fiber laces.?

Laces??? Do you realize how much laces weigh???  We don’t need no stinkin’ laces!

But seriously, race cars are often limited by class to specified minimum weights.  Low powered cars can benefit greatly from optimal distribution of that weight. So every 5 pounds in the right places can cut a few hundredths from lap times.  Sprung vs unsprung weight can affect handling. Lighter wheels and tires can help acceleration, as can a lightened flywheel.  As a result, many well engineered cars need ballast added to remain above their minimum weight.  Adding it to increase strength or otherwise improve performance is as much of an art as finding and removing weight that contributes nothing to performance or reliability.

 

I raced Formula Vee for many years in SCCA. The cars had to weigh at least 800 pounds with fluids, as I recall. With only about 65 hp, 5 extra pounds in the wrong place (eg the driver) could cost enough thousandths of a second per lap to hand a win to someone else of otherwise equal skill. Most FV and FFord winners in my day were on the small side.

[sphinxsix]

8 hours ago, bluesman said:

Laces??? Do you realize how much laces weigh???

No, I really don't know  What I know is that if one is thinking about getting rid of fillings in one's teeth to be 0.oooo3 sec faster during an amateur non-competition ride, things have probably gone too far.. 

 

8 hours ago, bluesman said:

But seriously, race cars are often limited by class to specified minimum weights.  Low powered cars can benefit greatly from optimal distribution of that weight. So every 5 pounds in the right places can cut a few hundredths from lap times.

Sure, the fastest guy on a go-kart track I used to attend for fun a couple of times before they limited the karts power due to some accident and it stopped being fun, was my ex car mechanic but he was not only a serious rally driver but also weighted probably around 60kg..

 

 

[bluesman]

19 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

What I know is that if one is thinking about getting rid of fillings in one's teeth to be 0.oooo3 sec faster during an amateur non-competition ride, things have probably gone too far.. 

Yes indeed! It’s like spending $10k on an external power supply to save those pesky peaks from the demon’s clippers 😝

 

I started racing in 1967 (1275 Austin Cooper S). We drove to the track, took off the hub caps, removed the loose bits, raced, and drove home.  An open trailer was a rare luxury in the pits at solo events and regional races. 
 

Within a few years, closed trailers were becoming common and the first big rigs started showing up at amateur meets. I got so frustrated that I quit - guys were spending tens of thousands a year to win cheap trophies.  There was no way for a medical student to even be safe among them, let alone keep up with them.

 

Once we had a house with a garage and shop, I got back into it and have done quite well. There are a few in my clubs and race groups who’ll spend and do anything to win.  I just let them pass me - and they often take out those poor saps who resist.  But after so many years of it, I got good enough to build and maintain my own cars, stay in the top 5, and beat many in identical cars on which the owners spent 5+ times what I had in mine.  At my wife’s urging, I did buy an enclosed trailer in 1987. But I still have all my fillings.

 

And there’s a Raspberry Pi running JRiver and Roon Bridge in almost every room of our apartment.  Wow - I think I see a pattern developing here.....

[accwai]

20 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

I'll take an Alfa instead...

 

If a clean BMW Z4M Coupé appears on the market, I will probably snap it up.The one below is a E85 roadster instead of E86 coupé:

 

 

After this, the Z4 turns into E89 then G29 ← Toyota Supra V. Yikes!

 

19 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

First of all I would say that quite often the situation in which rear of the car becomes more dynamic/faster than its front isn't a good thing 

 

Hmm... See the video above starting 3:22.

 

11 hours ago, bluesman said:

[...] Lighter wheels and tires can help acceleration, as can a lightened flywheel. [...]

 

Carbon fiber driveshaft seems to be all the rage these days. Combining that with light flywheel, carbon ceramic rotors and forged magnesium wheels could have fairly significant effects. And speaking of carbon fiber, the Lambo Sesto Elemento is almost entirely made of that. The red shimmer on the body color is embedded in the weave of the panels. It is not painted outside or in.

 

The Sesto is in Assetto Corsa by the way. So it's possible to try it out in there.

 

1 hour ago, bluesman said:

[...] There are a few in my clubs and race groups who’ll spend and do anything to win. [...]

 

Somebody on the internet once said some are in there for perfection of form and some are in there for the competition. If one gets caught up in the competitive spirit, spending anything to win might not be that far off. Hardware on the car isn't the only thing to spend money on though. Somebody e-mail'd about this one recently:

 

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/690726

 

And simulators seem to be a rather integral part these days. Price on the high end stuff can be positively serious...

[accwai]

21 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

YES! 

 

21 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

I'll take an Alfa instead...

 

I see

 

46 minutes ago, accwai said:

If a clean BMW Z4M Coupé appears on the market, I will probably snap it up.

 

If you mean taking the Alfa over Radical, something like that BMW would probably be a good daily driver to complement to an Alfaholics, Radical, Caterham, whatever.

[bluesman]

2 hours ago, accwai said:

If a clean BMW Z4M Coupé appears on the market, I will probably snap it up.

I fully support that.
 

I was able to get one of the few Z3 coupes that came to the US.  A close friend had a ‘98 M Coupe, and I thought the body was gorgeous.  But I didn’t want the intensive maintenance the M required (like adjusting solid lifters and a host of other old school issues now long gone from Ms), and he had a few failures (brakes and electrical) in year 1.   So I set my sights on a Z3C.  

 

I happened to be passing a BMW dealer in ‘99 and spotted her parked against the wall. I made an immediate U turn across a 4 lane road, pulled up to confirm her identity, called my wife, and told her I’d be a few hours late because I was buying a new car.
 

I truly loved that car even though we came from different cultures.  I’m a 42 long and Gretel was a 40 regular at best.  She was rather high maintenance when we met, with 13 warranty visits in the 1st 18 months for serious stuff like a failed transmission, a rear sway bar mount that fell off rather loudly at speed in a turn, and 3 episodes in which every warning light on the dash came on at once.  I hate unreliability in my street cars.  But she was the sexiest car I ever had and true love won out for us both.  She softened her attitude and behaved perfectly for the rest of our years together.

 

Our relationships with cars could also support an objective vs subjective forum.  My main objective metric for how much I love a car is how many failures I’ll tolerate before replacing it.  Curiously enough, that seems dependent on the purely subjective and unmeasurable thrill I get when it’s running fine and whether I still love to see it in my garage when it’s not.  I still have a few pieces of audio gear that I never use but love having.

[Bill Brown]

Learning a lot about you in this thread @bluesman, it is nice.  Musician, auto racer, physician, an age estimate.  A renaissance man!  Pretty cool.

 

Not sure if the auto guys are familiar with this website:

 

https://bringatrailer.com/auctions/

 

It is fun.  The Alpha reference reminded me of it.  I saw an Alpha GT video a few weeks ago that was great- what a musical engine/exhaust note!  And they are quite valuable... Though the values of the cars on that site are probably inflated 5-10% as it has become more a collector's site rather than the original ethos of "Bring A Trailer" type vehicles.

 

I bought a '91 BMW 318is there a year or so ago.  My 15, now 16 y/o youngest and I spent weeks on it under the carport- all rubber underneath, axles, control arms, soft brake lines, rotors, wheel bearings, springs, struts, e-brake, etc.  Love that it can be worked on at home.  My son worked with me so hard that I let him drive it to school (no bus and it is still mine- we never give our boys cars!).

 

Bill

 

[Bill Brown]

Oh, and since that picture he (finally!) hit puberty.  Late bloomer like me.  Much taller and no chubby cheeks!

 

Just realized that other than the braided lines there isn't anything red under there

[bluesman]

18 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

I bought a '91 BMW 318is there a year or so ago.  My 15, now 16 y/o youngest and I spent weeks on it under the carport- all rubber underneath, axles, control arms, soft brake lines, rotors, wheel bearings, springs, struts, e-brake, etc.  Love that it can be worked on at home.  My son worked with me so hard that I let him drive it to school (no bus and it is still mine- we never give our boys cars!).

I got mine started a bit younger.  I bought a ratty MG Midget from one of our residents to do a frame-up restoration with them.  “We” spent about a year on it, with each learning to do a surprising amount and do it safely.
 

They grew up with a few race & vintage cars in the garage plus a full machine & welding shop, and it did take effect.  Now 38 & 41, they’re both enamored of cars.

 

 

Having grown up with serious audio stuff as well, they know their way around that too.  I even run one Raspberry Pi as a dedicated JRiver server so they can listen to our files wherever they are.  Before the Pi era, I streamed to them with Foobar2000 from a simple PC server.  And the younger one now has all my CDs.  He wants the vinyl & the Thorens too, but that’s all staying with my wife and me until I’m gone.  He can afford his own if he wants it 😁

[Bill Brown]

Wonderful stuff.  For me I suppose one out of three sons isn't bad.  He is my future aeronautical or mechanical engineer pilot.

 

Your picture reminds me of working with my father when I was that age.  Guessing your age, I think one of those could have been me!

 

I saw a recent quote:

 

"You think you can hurt my feelings?  I used to hold a flashlight for my Dad."   

 

I tried to resist that phenomenon (and think I did better than mine), but I can't say I was perfect.....!

 

[Bill Brown]

Oh- and "slow cars fast."  That is the way to go!

 

Bill

[bluesman]

2 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

For me I suppose one out of three sons isn't bad.

It’s relative.  I hoped for a musician, but we only got a drummer......

 

[PYP]

9 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

"You think you can hurt my feelings?  I used to hold a flashlight for my Dad."   

 

That took me back, way back    My older brother always had homework (he did, he just didn't do it).   Think this is why I never got interested in cars.  But there was an upside:  my Dad also assembled/built his own stereo and it was my introduction to great sound.  

[Bill Brown]

 

Our oldest is a musician.  Much more difficult path than college, graduate school, life.

 

Note the Duane Allman memorial chops (worships him)....should have shown a picture of him playing slide.

 

One of my most gratifying projects was drawing out the schematic of the lead channel of the Fender Bassman "blackface" amp and building it as a head, point to point.

 

 

Uh-oh.  Just realized this is supposed to be a car thread!  Sorry!