PYP Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 1 hour ago, audiobomber said: IMO, Picasso's work was a joke perpetrated on the art world. They still haven't gotten it, but in the future I believe it will be revealed as a hoax. 😶 Do you mean the stuff that followed his more "realistic art" (that is, primitivism and then cubism)? Grimm Audio MU1 > Mola Mola Tambaqui > Mola Mola Kaluga > B&W 803 D3 Cables: Kubala-Sosna Power management: Shunyata Room: Vicoustics “Nature is pleased with simplicity.” Isaac Newton "As neither the enjoyment nor the capacity of producing musical notes are faculties of the least use to man...they must be ranked among the most mysterious with which he is endowed." Charles Darwin - The Descent of Man Link to comment
Popular Post gmgraves Posted September 1, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 1, 2020 On 8/30/2020 at 7:53 PM, fas42 said: There are Fiats ... and then there are Fiats ... Indeed there are... fas42 and sphinxsix 1 1 George Link to comment
gmgraves Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 3 hours ago, audiobomber said: IMO, Picasso's work was a joke perpetrated on the art world. They still haven't gotten it, but in the future I believe it will be revealed as a hoax. 😶 I have always thought that Picasso was a bit of a charlatan. I’ve often wondered if his work wasn’t a joke perpetrated on the art world on purpose by him. Of course we can but wonder. Because there’s no way to know. George Link to comment
Cazzesman Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Devin Townsend with a 5 Octave Range. Not many come close to what he can do. Bonnie Raitt in her younger days was pretty pure. Regards Cazzesman Link to comment
Ropet Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 26 minutes ago, Cazzesman said: Devin Townsend with a 5 Octave Range. Not many come close to what he can do. In my view this is a more engineering way to analyse voices, like an amplifier with a frequency 1 - 100,000 Hz. It does not say anything about emotions, how a voice grab you etc. Lucinda Williams, Bod Dylan and Tom Waits do not have the purest voices around. Still it put many in trance, not all but quite a few. Are they then great voices? Against what meassure? For whom? Why? What's "wrong" with them who like it or those who don't? How much is the tune and arrangement and what part is the voice? audiobomber 1 Link to comment
Audiophile Neuroscience Posted September 1, 2020 Author Share Posted September 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Ropet said: Bod Dylan and Tom Waits do not have the purest voices around. Still it put many in trance Yes 1 hour ago, Ropet said: Are they then great voices? Yes 1 hour ago, Ropet said: Against what meassure? Any measure of a trance. Let me know when you find it ! Sound Minds Mind Sound Link to comment
Bill Brown Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 12 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Is the Sistine Chapel better than Dark Side of the Moon? Sounds ridiculous to even consider the question. I was going to resist reading/commenting further, but can't! The answer to your first question in my mind is that yes, it is. Audiophile Neuroscience 1 Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant Link to comment
Popular Post sphinxsix Posted September 1, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 1, 2020 13 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: It’s still the case and I’m arguing the other side on this one because nobody else seems willing to admit that aren’t can’t be judged with a straight face and in good conscience. The bottom line for me is that no art is better than other art. Some has more cultural impact, longer staying power, is more copied, etc... but that doesn’t make it better. Better in your eyes is fine, but that doesn’t make it better objectively. I will still argue that art can be judged objectively Just some examples of possible criteria: uniqueness/originality, professional quality (neatness and craft), aesthetic quality (design, composition, color/tones), concept, selection and application of materials, and complexity/level of technology used. Chris, would you be ready to compromise if I added the word 'quite' to 'objectively', eventually the expression 'with some subjectivist margin'.? Just asking.. (something tells me it's not a good thing to be at war with the site founder ) As for Picasso, discussed here (I quite like his early blue and rose periods) - like I said he copied a number of Braque's ideas but OTOH in a way he was the inventor of a card payment. In his later years before leaving a restaurant he often asked if they prefer cash or his quick drawing and guess what was the answer he usually heard.. As for Fiats - the only one that I had - Coupe Turbo is among the best handling ones that I owned, I really have lots of good memories connected with it.. oh, those winding roads in Alps.. Audiophile Neuroscience and daverich4 1 1 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, sphinxsix said: I will still argue that art can be judged objectively Just some examples of possible criteria: uniqueness/originality, professional quality (neatness and craft), aesthetic quality (design, composition, color/tones), concept, selection and application of materials, and complexity/level of technology used. Chris, would you be ready to compromise if I added the word 'quite' to 'objectively', eventually the expression 'with some subjectivist margin'.? Just asking.. (something tells me it's not a good thing to be at war with the site founder ) As for Picasso, discussed here (I quite like his early blue and rose periods) - like I said he copied a number of Braque's ideas but OTOH in a way he was the inventor of a card payment. In his later years before leaving a restaurant he often asked if they prefer cash or his quick drawing and guess what was the answer he usually heard.. No worries sphinx. I enjoy lively respectful discussions. It's how we learn about both sides of an issue. I'll always respect you and those who put forth their honest opinions in a kind way. I still don't see how we can judge art on those categories given that the artist had no clue about them and wasn't even striving for them. It's like me judging your stride on the way to the bathroom this morning. You had no clue you'd be judged and likely don't care. Many artists don't care what others think about their work and don't strive for those goals. Thus, it's crazy to judge them. How can you judge something on selection and application of materials? An artist selects something based on whatever s/he wants, not what some minister of art information thinks is good or should be used. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post sphinxsix Posted September 1, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: No worries sphinx. I enjoy lively respectful discussions. It's how we learn about both sides of an issue. I'll always respect you and those who put forth their honest opinions in a kind way. I still don't see how we can judge art on those categories given that the artist had no clue about them and wasn't even striving for them. It's like me judging your stride on the way to the bathroom this morning. You had no clue you'd be judged and likely don't care. Many artists don't care what others think about their work and don't strive for those goals. Thus, it's crazy to judge them. How can you judge something on selection and application of materials? An artist selects something based on whatever s/he wants, not what some minister of art information thinks is good or should be used. Let me ask you - how can you explain that so many people, both ordinary art lovers / listeners and critics, regard e.g. Rembrandt a good painter or let's say Hendrix - a good guitarist.? If so many (probably with few exceptions in these cases) people agree on that, do you think we can say that such judgments are at least to some degree objective.? daverich4 and Audiophile Neuroscience 2 Link to comment
PYP Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 7 hours ago, gmgraves said: I have always thought that Picasso was a bit of a charlatan. I’ve often wondered if his work wasn’t a joke perpetrated on the art world on purpose by him. Of course we can but wonder. Because there’s no way to know. One of his sculptures in particular made me wonder if he was "messing about" since it used stuff he found laying around and turned that into "art." But, I had an uncle who did the same thing in later life (his second career) and he wasn't trying to perpetrate anything -- he didn't really care about anyone's reaction, just how it made him feel to express himself. He knew if it meant something to him, it would mean something to someone else, even only one person. Was he an artist? I don't know what the best definition is, but I do know that I was deeply affected by some of my uncle's pieces. My uncle made seemingly simple stuff, but he wasn't a simple man. I do think Picasso was a bit of s showman. In the art world, the artist's personal story is important too. Grimm Audio MU1 > Mola Mola Tambaqui > Mola Mola Kaluga > B&W 803 D3 Cables: Kubala-Sosna Power management: Shunyata Room: Vicoustics “Nature is pleased with simplicity.” Isaac Newton "As neither the enjoyment nor the capacity of producing musical notes are faculties of the least use to man...they must be ranked among the most mysterious with which he is endowed." Charles Darwin - The Descent of Man Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, sphinxsix said: Let me ask you - how can you explain that so many people, both listeners and critics, regard e.g. Rembrandt a good painter or let's say Hendrix - a good guitarist.? If so many (probably with few exceptions in these cases) people agree on that, do you think we can say that such judgments are at least to some degree objective.? The Earth has 7.5 billion people. The percentage that think Rembrandt and Hendrix are good, is probably tiny. That said, humans of certain cultures or ancestral origins tend to like those artists. I don't think numbers are equivalent to objectivity. I also don't see how you can judge someone on something that he didn't know he would be judged at the time he created the art. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, PYP said: I do tink Picasso was a bit of s showman. In the art world, the artist's personal story is important too. I would agree with that. The biggest one was probably Dali. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Just now, sphinxsix said: I would agree with that. The biggest one was probably Dali. Should art then be judged blindly :~) Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said: The Earth has 7.5 billion people. The percentage that think Rembrandt and Hendrix are good, is probably tiny. Ok, do you think that the percentage of the ones who think they were bad artists is higher.? 2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: That said, humans of certain cultures or ancestral origins tend to like those artists. I know an art historian who lives here in Leiden, NL who was born in Japan and is mainly fascinated with late 19th centurey Western art, I OTOH have always been fascinated be art of Japan and China 5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I also don't see how you can judge someone on something that he didn't know he would be judged at the time he created the art. E.g.? Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 1 minute ago, sphinxsix said: Ok, do you think that the percentage of the ones who think they were bad artists is higher.? I know an art historian who lives here in Leiden, NL who was born in Japan and is mainly fascinated with late 19th centurey Western art, I OTOH have always been fascinated be art of Japan and China E.g.? Judging a Rembrandt on the use of materials is crazy. He used what he wanted, not what some judge a few hundred years later would think is best. If he was going for top rating he may have used something different. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Should art then be judged blindly :~) At the same time he had an amazing imagination and technique! BTW I used to live almost next to the house of his ex muse - Amanda Lear in St Remy - the village I mentioned earlier. Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Judging a Rembrandt on the use of materials is crazy. He used what he wanted, not what some judge a few hundred years later would think is best. If he was going for top rating he may have used something different. You didn't answer any of my questions I'm going to smoke a cigarette (outside) now so you have some time though.. Audiophile Neuroscience 1 Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Judging a Rembrandt on the use of materials is crazy. Yes but e.g. in some art competition the harder to 'tame' materials can deserve a higher rating not necessarily being a decisive factor of the final judgment of course. Audiophile Neuroscience 1 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, sphinxsix said: Ok, do you think that the percentage of the ones who think they were bad artists is higher.? Not sure. 11 minutes ago, sphinxsix said: E.g.? This was my Rembrandt example. He painted and had no clue what the criteria for judgement would be a few hundred years later. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Just now, The Computer Audiophile said: Not sure. I would say I'd be ready to bet my money on my answer to this question. 1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said: This was my Rembrandt example. He painted and had no clue what the criteria for judgement would be a few hundred years later. I think I have already replied to it in my previous post. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 1 minute ago, sphinxsix said: Yes but e.g. in some art competition the harder to 'tame' materials can deserve a higher rating not necessarily being a decisive factor of the final judgment of course. That's crazy. An artist uses the material that suits the piece of art, not what is hardest to tame. Using something that's hard to tame just for that reason is dumb. Deducting points off a piece of art because an artist used easy to tame materials is also dumb. If the contest is to judge who can best tame materials then by all means use that metric. But, creating art is about creating art, not objective measurements used by the ministers of art information. If there were no art judges, just think about all the people in those positions who'd be out of work and couldn't give grades in school. There's a reason for judging art and it doesn't have anything to do wit the art. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post JoeWhip Posted September 1, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 1, 2020 Having had the privilege of seeing the restored and cleaned up Sistine Chapel, it gets my vote over The Dark Side of the Moon. The advantage the latter has though is accessibility. I do have to go to Rome to see the Sistine Chapel in all of its stick it in the eye of the Pope beauty where as the former, just need to go to Qobuz. As for Picasso, I have been to the Picasso Museums in Barcelona and Paris. Saw quite a few of his paintings at the Hermitage also. The cubist art doesn’t move me at all and most of it is too duplicative. However, his work as a young painter that I have seen, mostly portrait work, is spectacular, not to mention, the pencil porn drawings on yellow legal pad paper on display in Barcelona, which leave nothing to the imagination. He had the talent, even if I don’t care for the cubist stuff. Bill Brown, gmgraves, Audiophile Neuroscience and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: That's crazy. An artist uses the material that suits the piece of art, not what is hardest to tame. Yes, but if in a real world art competition two best works have according to judges similar artistic value and one of them has been done using much more difficult materials or techniques.. 7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: There's a reason for judging art and it doesn't have anything to do wit the art. If it wasn't for some art critics and historians some names in art which have really deserved a wide recognition might have passed unnoticed.. Link to comment
sphinxsix Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 This is really an interesting and inspiring discussion. Chris seems to be gone for now and I think I need my frutti di mare with vegetables fix Audiophile Neuroscience 1 Link to comment
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