So many options so little answers

Bliman · August 22, 2020

Hi all,

This place is recommended to me by someone on youtube.

First a little background. My system consists of a lyngdorf sda 2175 power amplifier, a nad c542 cd player, an rme adi-2 dac/pre, Dynaudio 52 Se speakers and a q acoustics 2070s subwoofer.

I am getting less and less room for storing my cd's.

This is what I want : I want to store all my music and play them with a streamer or server or something like that (it is all so confusing). In the future I will also likely want to play Tidal.

I want to replace my cd player so it has to be very very good quality. And my budget is around 1000 €/$.

I have seen so many things that I just don't know it anymore.

I have heard about a nuc, raspberry pi, Innuos Zen mini, Cambridge Audio CXV(V2), etc...

So I have a very good dac with the RME, and I can rip cd's on my computer with dB Poweramp.

Now the question is what do you guys recommend for me?

I have seen many glowing reviews for the Innuos , but I don't think I really need the feature of ripping because it can be done with the computer.

I also read that the Innuos is very good because it has a very good power supply.

I am looking for something that is some sort of giant killer or that is very very good price/quality.

My audio dealer said to go for the Cambridge Audio, but I rather not because I was not convinced by one of their products and it has a dac which I don't need.

So I would need some help here.

R1200CL · August 27, 2020

2 hours ago, Bliman said:

or use (https://www.vandenborre.be/powerline-adapter/devolo-magic-2-wifi-starterkit?type=reviews ).

That’s an expensive option.

Have a look at TP-Link AV2000 Powerline adapter and the reasonable TP-LINK AV600 Wi-Fi Powerline Adapter Kit.

Bliman · August 28, 2020

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

Your 1000 CD’s won’t take more than 500GB. Transfer that from ripping computer to somewhere else isn’t an issue. It’s very easy.

You can’t change SW in a NAS. You’re depending on what apps is supported. Unless you purchase a powerful one that allows you to run virtual machines. And since you haven’t used RDT (remot desktop), you probably won’t go that route. Docker may help, as you can install Linux. Still not recommended.

You can change SW in a NUC. A NUC is very flexible. (Or even a new laptop).

A NUC (if the correct one) can be used as an endpoint and is reported to sound better than a Rendu or SOtM. It can also be converted into a Roon ROCK server. And of cause a Linux computer. (That’s what those NAS run).

Both NUC and NAS need to either be accessed by another computer (iPad as well), that’s why I’m talking about RDT (or VLC) for PC, or an attached display and keyboard. A NAS has web interface, or can be accessed directly. (I‘m only familial with Qnap).

I understand your planning to have NUC or NAS downstairs. Good choice.
Powerline should be fine. Wireless may not be better in your case. Your fritzbox 7360 V2 doesn’t support WiFi 5GHz.
As that fritzbox 7360 V2 isn’t the hottest product of today, you may test out how easy you can control a player installed on that present stationery PC. I don’t expect a problem, but it may be an area of concern.

I suppose you’re using that fritzbox 7360 V2, cause you’re getting internet delivered by ASDL ?

Powerline normally works best on same circuit breaker. You may verify internal power wiring as well. Otherwise the option is to purchase an used Asus (RT-AC66U is OK) router (and put it in AP mode. You must also be familiar how to access that fritzbox 7360 V2, as you most likely need to access it’s DHCP server in order to locate ip addresses. The Asus will in any case be very helpful with displaying what’s on the network.

When starting to understand your situation a bit better, you should probably start with a used NUC. This gives you more flexibility to start with and you will easier find out what SW to use.
Also even though NUC > USB > DAC isn’t normally the preferred way to go, you at least can test out how you can control music with your phone using different SW.

When you have tested things out, you can find out if like to switch to a NAS. And if your preferred sw and control is available for that NAS selected. If you go direct to a NAS, you may have limited options. You can as an example try to figure out how Tidal will play from NAS. (I have mentioned Plex).

If you could accept present computer downstairs online 24/7, things would be easier. Install Roon there, add that powerline to a SOtM or a Rendu and enjoy. That’s how simple it can be done 😀

Thank you.

I rather not dabble in the matter first but try to make the right decision from the first time.

My fear with a NUC is that the sound will not be great.

So a NAS only allows there apps on it. I see why a solution like an Innuos zen mini is starting to make sense. All this information,oof.

To be honest my head is a bit screwed now with all the information.

Also you say a NUC>USB>Dac isn't a preferred way. That also doesn't give much promise.

This is all becoming to complicated for me.

I have installed the driver for the RME on the laptop. So I guess I have to do the same on the NUC. Then put my music files on the NUC and connect it by USB to the DAC. That also means I need a very quite NUC and hard drive if it is in my room.Then everytime I want new music on it I need to drag the NUC downstairs to put the files on it and also to have a screen and keyboard and mouse.

I see now why most streamers and such are so expensive. It is so confusing .

I just want the best sound quality and ergonomics for around 1000€.

Bliman · August 28, 2020

6 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

Hi Bliman,

Let me paint you a picture.

Calculate how much storage space you need, double it, buy an Innuos server with the appropriate storage and place it next to your DAC. Buy a Chord C USB cable of appropriate length and connect the Innuos to your DAC and to your network. Buy a simple USB disc drive for back-up and plug it in to the Innuos’s back-up USB port

Got a Tablet or Smartphone? Good, then that’s your GUI taken care of. Buy and download iPeng....its about $19 or thereabouts

Switch on your Innuos, open MyInnuos on the web and it’ll find your server. Answer a few simple questions to set up your server, enter your Tidal or Qobuz account ID and PW and you’re ready to play music

Open iPeng, select the Innuos and open either Radio or My Apps. Under Radio you’ll find all the radio stations and under My Apps you’ll find Qobuz or Tidal, with all your favorites and purchases. Select an album, hit play and listen to some sublime music.

While you’re doing that, take a handful of CDs, and place them one after another into the CD slot. The Innuos will rip each CD according to how you’ve set up ripping, obtain all the Meta data via the Internet, check that the copy is bit perfect then place it into your library, qualified by artist, music type, resolution etc.

Every 30 or so CDs click on tools, click back-up and the Innuos will make a back-up copy of all your CDs to the back-up disc. Continue to push CDs into the slot until they’re all done. You’ll now have a library with all meta data that you can play in any number of different ways...random tracks, artists, genres, single albums, play lists, whatever you like.

Bought some new CDs? Simply place them into the CD slot and they’ll be added, fully sorted with meta data to your library. Click back-up when you’re done, the back-up disc is updated and the job’s a good-un as they say. CD is a duplicate or has a faulty track? Innuos places it in the quarantine file, let’s you know exactly what the problem is, then places it in the library once resolved.

In terms of SQ, what you’re actually listening to is the finely modulated output of your server’s power supply, so the better your power supply, the better your sound quality. The system is super simple, easy to set-up and operate and according to all the reviews I’ve read, offers state of the art sound quality for the money right out of the starting gate. Am I Innuos fan? Yes. Why? Because it does exactly what its supposed to ie sound great with minimum complexity and maximum efficiency.

It looks like a good solution. It would be so good if they got rid of the ripper and spend it on a better power supply. Because I don't need the ripper. But yes it is getting tempting.

I only heard good stuff about Innuos.

R1200CL · August 28, 2020

1 hour ago, Bliman said:

My fear with a NUC is that the sound will not be great.

https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2020/07/04/roon-nucleus-review-as-a-streamer-vs-innuos-zen-mini-mkiii/

And a nucleus is a NUC. (Install ROCK)

1 hour ago, Bliman said:

Also you say a NUC>USB>Dac isn't a preferred way. That also doesn't give much promise

Well, yes, but if so you can add an endpoint later if I’m right. It may not be so in your system.

Also you can experiment with an ISOregen later.

1 hour ago, Bliman said:

Then everytime I want new music on it I need to drag the NUC downstairs to put the files on it and also to have a screen and keyboard and mouse.

Nope, your on net with your NUC. (Your argument would be same for the Innous, which is a Linux PC).
You add the NUC SSD as a network share. Or even use a flash drive.

1 hour ago, Bliman said:

That also means I need a very quite NUC and hard drive if it is in my room.

NUC’s are quiet. You can get fanless versions.

1 hour ago, Bliman said:

I just want the best sound quality and ergonomics for around 1000€.

NUC + Roon 😀

You may start to look at SGC’s SonicTransporter also.

audiobomber · August 28, 2020

10 hours ago, bluesman said:

Thanks! We really don't know what makes the "audio" USB port special, other than a label. It carries power, so that's not a difference. And you've proven that the standard USB ports also send audio to a DAC. So this remains a mystery!

Second reply from May Park, Worldwide Sales Manager for SOtM, and consulted with the designer to confirm.

Kamal is the North American distributor, not a direct SOtM employee. This question is settled AFAIC, there are two busses:

Hi Dan,

No, Kamal may misunderstood it, there are two USB buses in the sMS-200, and it is the answer from the designer of the sMS-200

Best regards, May

Blackmorec · August 28, 2020

5 hours ago, Bliman said:

It looks like a good solution. It would be so good if they got rid of the ripper and spend it on a better power supply. Because I don't need the ripper. But yes it is getting tempting.

I only heard good stuff about Innuos.

Hey there,

What you’d find if you went this route is just how well integrated the ripping drive is with the rest of the process. It not only rips CDs quietly while you’re listening to music (have you ever sat in front of a PC ripping CD’s? Its one of THE most boring activities, right up there with watching paint dry), but it also collects then files all the meta data, checks the integrity of the file and identifies and quarantines any problem files, all in background, automatically. Using a PC, all those steps are manual, clunky and require constant user intervention.

bluesman · August 28, 2020

10 hours ago, audiobomber said:

Second reply from May Park, Worldwide Sales Manager for SOtM, and consulted with the designer to confirm.

Kamal is the North American distributor, not a direct SOtM employee. This question is settled AFAIC, there are two busses:

Hi Dan,

No, Kamal may misunderstood it, there are two USB buses in the sMS-200, and it is the answer from the designer of the sMS-200

Best regards, May

Good to know - thanks!

Blackmorec · August 28, 2020

2 hours ago, audiobomber said:

I rip CD's on a laptop, using Windows Media Player with file checking active. File folders for artists and albums are created automatically, with metadata. I can listen to music while files are being ripped, using any of my other programs (PowerDVD, Music Station, Foobar2000). So what exactly is the advantage of the above?

I press a button, insert a CD, 5 minutes later put it back in its case. Job done. And that’s the long version.

For the next CD I simply insert it into the drive then pop it back in its cover when it reappears. The drive is almost silent so doesn’t interfere with listening to the music. The file is placed on my internal drive, in the correct directory, ready to be played with a single mouse click via iPeng. There’s no PC with its noisy drive, noisy power supply and constant unrelated CPU activity. I can isolate the Server so it only sees network traffic related to actually playing a file and then only while the file loads into RAM. But most important is the SQ I obtain. With a single click I can play a Radio Station, stream a favorite album from Quboz or Tidal, or play one of the Albums i ripped and find the results entirely satisfying.

I spent several years ripping CDs with dB Poweramp and all the associated bits and pieces. The results were OK for the car or my Cowon Plenue but for serious listening on a revealing system it really wasn’t that great. Innuos set out to design a system that sounds great and at the same time fully integrates all the other associated processes required to load and play music from all the regular local and remote sources.

Let me finish my contribution by saying that it makes no difference to me personally whether someone buys an Innuos or not. I just like to offer what I consider to be good advice.

The OP is looking for an excellent solution and in my admittedly limited experience Innuos is one of the very best you can get for the $$$, based solely on sound quality. Not buying an Innuos because you can rip CDs elsewhere is kinda missing the point of an Innuos. Its designed to be a complete solution for downloading storing and playing music and in my opinion it does that job extremely well, starting with but not limited to its outstanding SQ.

audiobomber · August 28, 2020

10 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

I press a button, insert a CD, 5 minutes later put it back in its case. Job done. And that’s the long version.

For the next CD I simply insert it into the drive then pop it back in its cover when it reappears. The drive is almost silent so doesn’t interfere with listening to the music. The file is placed on my internal drive, in the correct directory, ready to be played with a single mouse click via iPeng. There’s no PC with its noisy drive, noisy power supply and constant unrelated CPU activity. I can isolate the Server so it only sees network traffic related to actually playing a file and then only while the file loads into RAM. But most important is the SQ I obtain. With a single click I can play a Radio Station, stream a favorite album from Quboz or Tidal, or play one of the Albums i ripped.

I spent several years ripping CDs with dB Poweramp and all the associated bits and pieces. The results were OK for the car or my Cowon Plenue but for serious listening on a revealing system it really wasn’t that great. Innuos set out to design a system that sounds great and at the same time fully integrates all the other associated processes required to load and play music from all the regular local and remote sources.

Ripping on a laptop is nowhere near as inconvenient as you make it out to be. WMP copies the file straight into a folder, on my NAS or laptop, whichever I specify, with no further action required. A file ripped on a laptop with WMP and file checking will sound identical to an Innuos rip when played back through the same replay chain.

The Innuos sounds like a good option for the OP to consider. Another option is an outboard hard drive with an sMS-200, which also plays stored content, Roon, Tidal, Qobuz and radio stations. Ripping would need to be done elsewhere. Using a server instead of a hard drive provides other benefits (file-sharing, remote access, safer storage, play photo slideshows and video).

R1200CL · August 29, 2020

27 minutes ago, Bliman said:

Isn't it good that I set an Intel NUC downstairs besides my main computer put it in my router and then go by a network cable go upstairs connect a SOtM 200 Neo on it and connect that to the DAC.

Yes, but may I suggest you start with the NUC next to your DAC 😀

Bliman · August 29, 2020

4 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Yes, but may I suggest you start with the NUC next to your DAC 😀

Why is it important to set the NUC besides the DAC?

What difference does it make if I put my NUC in the router and put a network cable from the router to the SOtM above? Or put a network cable in the router and put it in the NUC above and from there a network cable to the SOtM?

Wouldn't it be better to have the NUC downstairs where I don't have problems with noise in my room and have access to a keyboard, mouse, and screen.

R1200CL · August 30, 2020

3 hours ago, Bliman said:

Wouldn't it be better to have the NUC downstairs where I don't have problems with noise in my room and have access to a keyboard, mouse, and screen.

Yes. You’re right.

Bliman · August 30, 2020

6 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Yes. You’re right.

So there is no problem if I set the NUC downstairs? Or am I missing something?

R1200CL · August 30, 2020

9 hours ago, Bliman said:

So there is no problem if I set the NUC downstairs? Or am I missing something?

There is absolutely no problem with that. I was only trying to save you the cost of SOtM in the start. And if your plan is to install new network cable, then why not use fiber ?

Hope you learn to use RDT, so you don’t have to switch keyboard and screen every time.

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-remove-desktop-app-connect-pc-windows-10-0

Get a W10 pro license for that NUC. As you have enterprise on present computer, it should already support RDT.

You can test this out trying to install RDT for android on your phone even today.
(Unless you’re willing to take a chance on W10 Pro on your laptop)

R1200CL · August 30, 2020

@Bliman

i hope I’m not confusing you, but if you like to learn more about different NUC’s and very creative use of them. Even as endpoints, you can use links in this tread first post to explore things that goes beyond my interest and what I have tested. (I’m using a Sonore Rendu).

You may also try out advanced search function here in AS.

To learn what others have done, takes a lot of time reading. So it’s up tp you how much you like to investigate in time to understand more.
You will hopefully learn a lot when you have your NUC up an running.

Maybe you let us know what model you purchased later.

audiobomber · August 30, 2020

14 hours ago, Bliman said:

Why is it important to set the NUC besides the DAC?

What difference does it make if I put my NUC in the router and put a network cable from the router to the SOtM above? Or put a network cable in the router and put it in the NUC above and from there a network cable to the SOtM?

Wouldn't it be better to have the NUC downstairs where I don't have problems with noise in my room and have access to a keyboard, mouse, and screen.

You don't need both an sMS-200 and a NUC. They are both small-board computers, you only need one, working on wi-fi, and connected to your DAC via USB. I would suggest the sMS-200 as an easier plug & play solution. The hard drive can be connected to your router, or to the sms.

R1200CL · August 30, 2020

1 hour ago, audiobomber said:

You don't need both an sMS-200 and a NUC. They are both small-board computers, you only need one, working on wi-fi, and connected to your DAC via USB. I would suggest the sMS-200 as an easier plug & play solution. The hard drive can be connected to your router, or to the sms.

How will the OP be able to play music with this solution ? (Only SMS-200)

(He only has a android phone in addition, which only can access a 2.4 GHz WiFi).

Edit:

@sedest

Was your intention to answer this with that post below ?

(If so, please elaborate).

sedest · August 30, 2020

audiobomber · August 30, 2020

31 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

How will the OP be able to play music with this solution ? (Only SMS-200)

(He only has a android phone in addition, which only can access a 2.4 GHz WiFi).

Edit:

@sedest

Was your intention to answer this with that post below ?

(If so, please elaborate).

sMS-200 now supports USB Wi Fi , f/w ver.0.3.0. and you are able to use USB Wi Fi feature.

The USB Wifi dongle should use RTL8812AU chipset to work with sMS-200 WiFi feature.

The sMS operating system comes with MinimServer and DLNA/MPD pre-installed, connects to the router via wi-fi, control with his Android phone through UPnP/DLNA/MPD (foobar2000, Linn Kazoo, BubbleUPnP, etc).

R1200CL · August 30, 2020

14 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

The sMS operating system comes with MinimServer

The OP likes to use Tidal as well. (Maybe Qobuz? or other streaming services). Does the MinimServer support that ?

So he’s restricted to use MinimServer old version only then ?

audiobomber · August 30, 2020

12 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

The OP likes to use Tidal as well. (Maybe Qobuz? or other streaming services). Does the MinimServer support that ?

So he’s restricted to use MinimServer old version only then ?

The sMS supports Qobuz and Tidal streaming and is a Roon end-point. Minimserver can be updated from the Minimserver site, so it is always the current version. From the sMS-200 (Eunhasa) DLNA page:

Tidal streaming config

ID or Email

Password

Quality Select quality low high lossless

Enter your TIDAL ID & Password. And select TIDAL streaming quality according to your account type, 'Low' or 'High' are for Premium account and 'Lossless' is for HiFi account.

Qobuz streaming config

ID or Email

Password

Format Select format normal lossless

Enter your Qobuz ID & Password. And select Qobuz streaming format, 'Normal' is for MP3 and 'Lossless' is for FLAC.

Save changes Cancel

stefano_mbp · August 30, 2020

@audiobomber Qobuz is broken on SOtM sms200 (and in every MPD based system as you can read here https://www.lesbonscomptes.com/upmpdcli/upmpdcli-manual.html#upmpdcli.qobuznotes ), I did verify it with May from SOtM when they released the last firmware update (4.91)

To have access to Qobuz you need to use a control point like Bubbleupnp or MConnect and do not enter Qobuz credential in eunhasu, just enter them in Bubbleupnp or MConnect

Bliman · August 30, 2020

Will you look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw762D_rseI&t=83s

Setup 1 but with a SOtM and only with the main computer with a harddrive attached or with a NUC.

I would like to do something similar. I would like to go from a NUC (or my main computer) to a central switch and from there to maybe the uptone ether regen by optical fiber then to the router and from there to the SOtM 200 and from there to the DAC.

But it depends if I would use the main computer because for this to work the computer must always must be on. But I don't see much difference because a NUC must also be always on.

If I still go for the NUC then I must let go off the ether regen because otherwise the price is to much.

R1200CL · August 30, 2020

32 minutes ago, Bliman said:

If I still go for the NUC then I must let go off the ether regen because otherwise the price is to much.

EtherRegen can always be added later. Also an optical Mudule can be used. (From your router).
You basically don’t like a noisy HD connected to your endpoint (SMS 200). Better to attach it to your router. Or use the NUC.

However, I just watched the 3 videos by Hans about the sms 200. If you want the best, you may go Sonore 😀

Bliman · August 30, 2020

5 hours ago, R1200CL said:

EtherRegen can always be added later. Also an optical Mudule can be used. (From your router).
You basically don’t like a noisy HD connected to your endpoint (SMS 200). Better to attach it to your router. Or use the NUC.

However, I just watched the 3 videos by Hans about the sms 200. If you want the best, you may go Sonore 😀

The price of the optical rendu is 1400€/$.

While the price of the SOtM 200 is 549€/$ and the EtherRegen is 760€/$.

So both are equal price. What is the best I have no clue.

And that is if I use the main computer because I I have to buy a NUC the price goes up very quickly.

Now I must see that the balance is a little maintained in the system by price. They always say that the room is the most important with the speakers.

So I don't know if it would be wise if my source would be pricier then my speakers for example.

My power amp with my preamp/dac costed about 2600€ I think. And my speakers with subwoofer around 1800€ I think.

So many options so little answers

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