So many options so little answers

[Bliman]

Hi all,

This place is recommended to me by someone on youtube.

First a little background. My system consists of a lyngdorf sda 2175 power amplifier, a nad c542 cd player, an rme adi-2 dac/pre, Dynaudio 52 Se speakers and a  q acoustics 2070s subwoofer.

I am getting less and less room for storing my cd's.

This is what I want : I want to store all my music and play them with a streamer or server or something like that (it is all so confusing). In the future I will also likely want to play Tidal.

I want to replace my cd player so it has to be very very good quality. And my budget is around 1000 €/$.

I have seen so many things that I just don't know it anymore.

I have heard about a nuc, raspberry pi, Innuos Zen mini, Cambridge Audio CXV(V2), etc...

So I have a very good dac with the RME, and I can rip cd's on my computer with dB Poweramp.

Now the question is what do you guys recommend for me?

I have seen many glowing reviews for the Innuos , but I don't think I  really need the feature of ripping because it can be done with the computer.

I also read that the Innuos is very good because it has a very good power supply.

I am looking for something that is some sort of giant killer or that is very very good price/quality.

My audio dealer said to go for the Cambridge Audio, but I rather not because I was not convinced by one of their products and it has a dac which I don't need.

So I would need some help here.

[bluesman]

48 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

If you choose Qnap, you at least have the option to install Roon. That’s not as easy on the Asustor.

Installing Roon on the Asustor was as easy as installing it on any other device.  It only takes a simple click to add it from the Asustor app list.  Configuration is also no different. 

 

I also stuck a 250G SSD on a USB port for the Roon db, and it's been smooth sailing from day 1.  Per Roon, running the server on an SSD (whether internal or USB) is advisable with any storage scheme.  It will run OK on mechanical HDDs, but things can get a bit slow when the library grows beyond about 10k files.  The SSD is only for Roon server and db - you don't need (or want) SSD storage for your music files.

 

Even my lowly AS5202T is up to basic Roon functions, although the processor's a bit weak for serious work like heavy upsampling, DSD256+DSP etc.  I filled the RAM slots to the max, and I'm very happy with my choice.  SQ is the same as it is from Roon on my PC or my NUC.

 

On 8/25/2020 at 11:12 PM, audiobomber said:

I realize Roon has info on artists and the music, but I can get more from Wikipedia and allmusic.com than Roon provides.

But you can't call it all up by clicking links in most other programs' GUIs.  Roon integrates many data sources into the album or track display, so that you don't have to search around for it.

[Bliman]

36 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

You may consider Qnap. 
https://uk.pcmag.com/nas/14710/the-best-nas-network-attached-storage-devices

I’ve been quite happy with my Qnaps. Remote management is excellent. Also support is good. As you see, Qnap is recommended as media server. 

If you choose Qnap, you at least have the option to install Roon. That’s not as easy on the Asustor.

Qnap supports Bubbleupnp server. 

 

Also Qnap has Docker, that means you can almost run anything. Like JRiver. You can’t install JRiver on Asustor. You should carefully understand what SW you can install on that Asustor, unless you only plan to use it as a file server. (Which requires the player SW to be installed somewhere else). 

Plex works on Qnap, and with Tidal as example of sw. 

 

Finallly, you may be better served with a headless Windows NUC, and use Remote Desktop to access it. And you may find USB direct to your DAC OK, and instead use an ISOregen.
A NUC is more easy to test out most SW. By a USB disk as backup for your files. (That disk can also be connected to your router). Audirvana as an example will not run on any NAS. 

 

Many people are happy with the Rendu series from Sonore. Wider user base, and good support if ever needed.

 

You should probably start to test out player SW on your laptop as the first step. 
If you purchase that Asustor without knowing what SW it supports, you may regret. JRiver doesn’t support Tidal nativity. 
 

How do you plan to control your music player ? Phone, laptop, iPad ?

 

If you use iDevices, you may like the iPeng app. It also supports Tidal.

(Install Squeezebox server or just use internet).  

 

 

 

Thanks for the information.

This is so complicated it hurts. Why is it all so difficult?

I would like to control it with my smartphone (no Iphone).

This is the most difficult for me. I get bombarded with all these types of software (audionirvana, daphile, j-river, roon, iPeng). This works for that another for this. This NAS doesn't work with that another device doesn't work with that. It is to go nuts.

My cd player is pretty old already and sometimes hampers also I am running out of room for my cd's.And it is not so easy to see anymore what I have.

So I thought I would go the route of streaming (or what it is called) as a solution. And maybe at Tidal at a later date.

But boy oh boy it is not pleasant to go that route.

Now I don't think I would go buy Roon as it costs 700$ to buy it. I find that much to expensive for what it does.

I thought let's go for the SOtM route that looks to be pretty simple. I am not a noob with pc's (I often help my friends with pc's) but this is just not pleasant.

 

[R1200CL]

On 8/26/2020 at 1:38 AM, Bliman said:

What I don't understand is that so many people are recommending Roon.

Go through the jungle of music players and storage, and you will end up with Roon 😀

Please take time to see this video.

 

Since this video, the Roon SW has been upgraded to be even better. 
 

Rip your music first. This will give you a better understanding how the different players handler your catalogue. 
Make a list of players you like to test. Try Audivana and JRiver as minimum. 

 

Deside what OS you like to use. As said not all players support all SW. Most support windows.
Test how you can integrate your local music with Tidal or Qobuz on those players. Does any ?

 

[Matias]

If Roon was 70 usd lifetime it would be acceptable, but the 700 usd lifetime kills it for me too.

[R1200CL]

9 minutes ago, bluesman said:

Installing Roon on the Asustor was as easy as installing it on any other device. 

Yepp. See Asustor is now added to the list. 
https://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_Server_on_NAS

[audiobomber]

9 minutes ago, Bliman said:

I would like to control it with my smartphone (no Iphone).

This is the most difficult for me. I get bombarded with all these types of software (audionirvana, daphile, j-river, roon, iPeng). This works for that another for this. This NAS doesn't work with that another device doesn't work with that. It is to go nuts.

 

 

So I thought I would go the route of streaming (or what it is called) as a solution. And maybe at Tidal at a later date.

But boy oh boy it is not pleasant to go that route.

I thought let's go for the SOtM route that looks to be pretty simple. I am not a noob with pc's (I often help my friends with pc's) but this is just not pleasant.

 

I know next to nothing about computers yet I don't find my system difficult to configure or operate. The QNAP NAS has an internal music program  called Music Station for my Windows laptop and a very similar program called QMusic for my Android phone. SOtM's Eunhasu software is very easy to manage and works well with QNAP. It's a simple solution.

I don't use Tidal but you can manage it through QNAP Music Station, there is a dedicated link for it.

[Bliman]

Just now, R1200CL said:

Go through the jungle of music players and storage, and you will end up with Roon 😀

Please take time to see this video.

 

Since this video, the Roon SW has been upgraded to be even better. 
 

Rip your music first. This will give you a better understanding how the different players handler your catalogue. 
Make a list of players you like to test. Try Audivana and JRiver as minimum. 

 

Deside what OS you like to use. As said not all players support all SW. Most support windows.
Test how you can integrate your local music with Tidal or Qobuz on those players. Does any ?

 

Yeah but how do I do that?

Let's take for example I rip 50 cd's. I put them on my harddrive on my computer.

What then? Like before my computer is downstairs and I don't have access  above where my system is.

If Roon is essential then almost all my money goes to software just to list my albums. I have no clue why it is so expensive.

[ASRMichael]

7 minutes ago, Bliman said:

Thanks for the information.

This is so complicated it hurts. Why is it all so difficult?

I would like to control it with my smartphone (no Iphone).

This is the most difficult for me. I get bombarded with all these types of software (audionirvana, daphile, j-river, roon, iPeng). This works for that another for this. This NAS doesn't work with that another device doesn't work with that. It is to go nuts.

My cd player is pretty old already and sometimes hampers also I am running out of room for my cd's.And it is not so easy to see anymore what I have.

So I thought I would go the route of streaming (or what it is called) as a solution. And maybe at Tidal at a later date.

But boy oh boy it is not pleasant to go that route.

Now I don't think I would go buy Roon as it costs 700$ to buy it. I find that much to expensive for what it does.

I thought let's go for the SOtM route that looks to be pretty simple. I am not a noob with pc's (I often help my friends with pc's) but this is just not pleasant.

 

If you help friends with pc’s then putting system together is a breeze. Just google or check forums when you come up against an obstacle. Or ask here, many members will help you, 

[Bliman]

Just now, Matias said:

If Roon was 70 usd lifetime it would be acceptable, but the 700 usd lifetime kills it for me too.

Yeah I agree. It seems a price for audiophiles for the sake of it.

[R1200CL]

8 minutes ago, Bliman said:

I thought let's go for the SOtM route that looks to be pretty simple.

If it’s simple, tell me how you will feed and control music to it ? It’s not that simple always. 
You need to test out SW you like to use. And now make sure it can be controlled by your android phone. 

[ASRMichael]

1 minute ago, Bliman said:

Yeah but how do I do that?

Let's take for example I rip 50 cd's. I put them on my harddrive on my computer.

What then? Like before my computer is downstairs and I don't have access  above where my system is.

If Roon is essential then almost all my money goes to software just to list my albums. I have no clue why it is so expensive.

You can buy 1 year licence from Roon, There’s also 30 day trial period, try before you buy. 

[Bliman]

Just now, audiobomber said:

I know next to nothing about computers yet I don't find my system difficult to configure or operate. The QNAP NAS has an internal music program  called Music Station for my Windows laptop and a very similar program called QMusic for my Android phone. SOtM's Eunhasu software is very easy to manage and works well with QNAP. It's a simple solution.

What NAS do you have? And you also have the SOtM 200?

The asustor looks also nice because it is not so expensive because I don't think I need more then 2TB.

Thanks all by the way.

[stefano_mbp]

@audiobomber @bluesman one or two usb buses...

just tried to connect two dacs to my SOtM sms200 Neo

the first on the “audio specialized “ usb connector (vertical one)

the second on one the two other usb ports 

... SOtM sms200 can see both ....

then configured MPD to use the second (Khadas Tone Board) .... rebooted

... it works 

 

[audiobomber]

11 minutes ago, Bliman said:

What NAS do you have? And you also have the SOtM 200?

I am using the QNAP TS-451+ with 8GB Ram and four 4TB drives in RAID configuration. I don't need anywhere near that much for music, but I am also an amateur photographer with thousands of photos to store. There are much cheaper choices from QNAP.

 

I have been using the sMS-200 for three years, along with several other streamers for my four audio systems.

[R1200CL]

27 minutes ago, Matias said:

If Roon was 70 usd lifetime it would be acceptable, but the 700 usd lifetime kills it for me too.

Be glad that lifetime option still exists. Some day it may not. Roon has to pay fees for several services as well.  Like metadata. The number manufacturers that supports Roon also speaks for itself. 
 

If you spend 700 on any HW, the value is highly likely half after a year. With Roon, free updates and services 4ever and more features added.  Just the option to implement room correction is of a very high value. 
Integration with HQPlayer is unique. And sonore has made the fantastic (a bit overpriced) SonicTransporter to support in one box. 
 

And speaking of RC software. You easily pay 500 for the best one. (Audiolence and Accurate).

So 700 isn’t that bad after all. And after 5 to 6 years it equals the rental price. 
 

Yes, 700 is a lot, but streaming has a cost, as a CD player. And 700 for a CD player or transport is relatively cheap In 2020. 
 

The OP can save a lot of money purchasing used HW. (But new disks). With (free) SW, he may have an endless hassle and issues. Depending how comfortable he is with all sort of issues that seems to always happen with different SW.
 

Well, actually a lot of problems can often be traced to your network.

 

Most players depend on DNLA. A horrible protocol for music. But if your stereo isn’t up to it, you may not hear any difference. At least Sonore and SOtM endpoints (a fork of same SW) has built in support for several options. Some more problematic than others. 
 

A think myself USB is behind us as transfer of music. Ethernet is the future. Something to think about when planning your first streaming implementation. Maybe even the Sonore Endpoint will be the perfect solution for the OP, as he isn’t plan for Roon. 
 

Or sell the DAC, and purchase a streaming DAC 😀

 

[R1200CL]

40 minutes ago, Bliman said:

The asustor looks also nice because it is not so expensive because I don't think I need more then 2TB.

Why not purchase two USB disks. Like WD passport. One for backup one for live use ? Do you really need a NAS ?

Or only one disk, and the cloud for backup. (Like Jottacloud). 
 

And @bluesman latest post is the best advice you have gotten so far 😀

You need to have an understanding of this. We told you Roon. You don’t won’t. Then you need to do the homework. And learn the hard way. 

 

[bluesman]

1 hour ago, stefano_mbp said:

@audiobomber @bluesman one or two usb buses...

just tried to connect two dacs to my SOtM sms200 Neo

the first on the “audio specialized “ usb connector (vertical one)

the second on one the two other usb ports 

... SOtM sms200 can see both ....

then configured MPD to use the second (Khadas Tone Board) .... rebooted

... it works 

Thanks - your effort is greatly appreciated!  But to clarify, if you're running phpSysInfo on your NUC, aren't the two DACs you connected to the Neo two of the seven USB devices it shows connected to gear throughout your network?  The fact that both DACs are recognized does not mean that they're on separate buses.  I can connect my iFi Nano DSD, Emotiva Stealth, and SMSL SU8 to 3 of the USB ports on any of my PCs with only one USB bus for them all, and they all appear both on network monitors and as zones in Roon.  And they all function.  The same is true when they're connected to my NUC.

 

You don't actually say that you believe there are 2 USB buses in the Neo, so I'm not sure what you're telling us.  If you are saying this, what in the phpSysInfo readout tells you that there are indeed two?

[stefano_mbp]

it seems to me that the OP is quite scared ...
the simplest and most immediate solution could be a nuc8i3beh headless (the high one) with 8gb ram and a 250gb ssd for the operating system (windows10) and an internal 2tb hdd for music .
You can install Audirvana or JRiver and control everything from your smartphone with Audirvana Remote or Gizmo.
All for less than $ 500.
And if you want a backup hdd add $ 100
Wifi is sufficient for sw updates and license checks

[stefano_mbp]

@bluesman my intention was just to demonstrate that they both work.

If there were actually to buses one of them specialized for Audio I would have expected that the second dac could not be used nor configured in MPD  ... but I can mistake, obviously 

[bluesman]

2 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

@bluesman my intention was just to demonstrate that they both work.

If there were actually to buses one of them specialized for Audio I would have expected that the second dac could not be used nor configured in MPD  ... but I can mistake, obviously 

Thanks!  We really don't know what makes the "audio" USB port special, other than a label.  It carries power, so that's not a difference.  And you've proven that the standard USB ports also send audio to a DAC.  So this remains a mystery!

[Blackmorec]

Hi Bliman,

Let me paint you a picture.

 

Calculate how much storage space you need, double it, buy an Innuos server with the appropriate storage and place it next to your DAC. Buy a Chord C USB cable of appropriate length and connect the Innuos to your DAC and to your network.  Buy a simple USB disc drive for back-up and plug it in to the Innuos’s back-up USB port

 

Got a Tablet or Smartphone?  Good, then that’s your GUI taken care of. Buy and download iPeng....its about $19 or thereabouts

 

Switch on your Innuos, open MyInnuos on the web and it’ll find your server. Answer a few simple questions to set up your server, enter your Tidal or Qobuz account ID and PW and you’re ready to play music

 

Open iPeng, select the Innuos and open either Radio or My Apps. Under Radio you’ll find all the radio stations and under My Apps you’ll find Qobuz or Tidal, with all your favorites and purchases. Select an album, hit play and listen to some sublime music.

While you’re doing that, take a handful of CDs, and place them one after another into the CD slot. The Innuos will rip each CD according to how you’ve set up ripping, obtain all the Meta data via the Internet, check that the copy is bit perfect then place it into your library, qualified by artist, music type, resolution etc. 

 

Every 30 or so CDs click on tools, click back-up and the Innuos will make a back-up copy of all your CDs to the back-up disc.  Continue to push CDs into the slot until they’re all done. You’ll now have a library with all meta data that you can play in any number of different ways...random tracks, artists, genres, single albums, play lists,  whatever you like. 

Bought some new CDs? Simply place them into the CD slot and they’ll be added, fully sorted with meta data to your library. Click back-up when you’re done, the back-up disc is updated and the job’s a good-un as they say. CD is a duplicate or has a faulty track? Innuos places it in the quarantine file, let’s you know exactly what the problem is, then places it in the library once resolved.

 

In terms of SQ, what you’re actually listening to is the finely modulated output of your server’s power supply, so the better your power supply, the better your sound quality. The system is super simple, easy to set-up and operate and according to all the reviews I’ve read, offers state of the art sound quality for the money right out of the starting gate.  Am I Innuos fan? Yes. Why? Because it does exactly what its supposed to ie sound great with minimum complexity and maximum efficiency. 

 

 

 

 

[R1200CL]

On 8/24/2020 at 1:39 PM, Bliman said:

Just to be clear my listening room is upstairs and I have no computer there and my laptop can only be used for REW because it is very very slow and there is something wrong with it.So I have no access to a computer upstairs.

This is very confusing. I would expect REW to be used upstairs. And REW has some requirements. So you must have some sort of a computer upstairs. Isn’t that the laptop ? 
You’re saying you have SW for ripping. Where is that installed ? Do you have another PC downstairs then ?

Are you familiar with using Remote Desktop?
You need Win10 pro in order to use it. (VNC may be an option). 
 

If there is something wrong with that Laptop, it’s normally easy to fix. Clean it for dust. New SSD. Load it with max RAM (8gb is enough). Slow network: many old laptop gets faster if you upgrade the WiFi card. 
 

But first try and reinstall W10 pro. License is cheap on the net.

I can purchase fairly good laptops (Thinkpad) used even with touchscreen here in Norway for around €250. Same with a NUC. I think should be easy to get in Belgium as well. Consumer laptop sucks. Used company laptops is far better. 
 

How many CD’s do you have ?

What laptop is it ?

What other computers do you have ?

 

Where do you plan to install a NAS or NUC ?

If you’re not going to use your laptop, how will you access those items ?

[bluesman]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

Are you familiar with using Remote Desktop?
You need Win10 pro in order to use it. (VNC may be an option). 

I use and love RealVNC on all my computers and devices.  It's an easy download, but you have to put the RealVNC server on each device you want to control and put the viewer on those from which you want to use for control.  On a Pi, you only have to turn on the VNC function in the preferences panel to be able to control it from another computer.

 

Right now, I access desktops on 14 computers from my main PC and a few tablets - 2 on Win10, 2 on Ubuntu Studio 20, 2 on Ubuntu 18 LTS, 7 Raspberry Pis, and a Beaglebone Black.  The free version only lets you put 5 devices into your account for cloud access.  But you can remote into an unlimited number of devices on your LAN or WLAN by IP address.

[Bliman]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

This is very confusing. I would expect REW to be used upstairs. And REW has some requirements. So you must have some sort of a computer upstairs. Isn’t that the laptop ? 
You’re saying you have SW for ripping. Where is that installed ? Do you have another PC downstairs then ?

Are you familiar with using Remote Desktop?
You need Win10 pro in order to use it. (VNC may be an option). 
 

If there is something wrong with that Laptop, it’s normally easy to fix. Clean it for dust. New SSD. Load it with max RAM (8gb is enough). Slow network: many old laptop gets faster if you upgrade the WiFi card. 
 

But first try and reinstall W10 pro. License is cheap on the net.

I can purchase fairly good laptops (Thinkpad) used even with touchscreen here in Norway for around €250. Same with a NUC. I think should be easy to get in Belgium as well. Consumer laptop sucks. Used company laptops is far better. 
 

How many CD’s do you have ?

What laptop is it ?

What other computers do you have ?

 

Where do you plan to install a NAS or NUC ?

If you’re not going to use your laptop, how will you access those items ?

First thanks all for the help.

We have a laptop here, but it is one that my dad brought home from the scrapyard and I got it working after a while. But there is something seriously wrong with it. It makes strange noises when starting up and is very very slow. To even start it up it needs more then 10 minutes.

Then we have our computer downstairs (main floor) where we do all the things on (Windows Enterprise, Intel core I7 3770K and 16GB ram and a good GPU with two hard drives where one is a SSD which is 110 GB and the HDD is 2 TB) this is connected to my router (fritzbox 7360 V2).

I am not familiar with Remote Desktop.

I have around 1000 cd's I guess.

And I probably use Tidal in the future, but I would mostly buy music from sites like Boomkat and Bandcamp and such and my ripped cd's.

I would plan to install the NAS alongside the main computer connected to the router.

And I either would use a lan cable to go to the system upstairs (difficult because there are many obstacles to do that)  or use (https://www.vandenborre.be/powerline-adapter/devolo-magic-2-wifi-starterkit?type=reviews ).

I would use a NAS because that way the computer doesn't have to be turned on when I play upstairs.

I have dBpoweramp on the computer so I can rip cd's.

The difficulty is keeping the programs apart.

Like say I have a NAS and SOtM 200 and Jriver.

That is where the difficulties start. I guess you have to drag the ripped cd's to a folder on the NAS then I must use an app on my android phone to control those ripped cd's so I can play it on my system.

But what is the function of the Jriver then? And what program must I use for the Android?

I want maybe a NAS with around 2x1 TB or 2x2 TB (I think that is enough) but it has to be good enough for my purposes (laid out above).

And I am searching for a NAS that can do the above but where I can change the software if it doesn't suit me. But I hope the NAS is not to expensive (around 300-500€).

I hope this is clearer.

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, Bliman said:

And I am searching for a NAS that can do the above but where I can change the software if it doesn't suit me.

Your 1000 CD’s won’t take more than 500GB. Transfer that from ripping computer to somewhere else isn’t an issue.  It’s very easy. 

You can’t change SW in a NAS. You’re depending on what apps is supported. Unless you purchase a powerful one that allows you to run virtual machines. And since you haven’t used RDT (remot desktop), you probably won’t go that route. Docker may help, as you can install Linux. Still not recommended. 
 

You can change SW in a NUC. A NUC is very flexible. (Or even a new laptop).

A NUC (if the correct one) can be used as an endpoint and is reported to sound better than a Rendu or SOtM. It can also be converted into a Roon ROCK server. And of cause a Linux computer.  (That’s what those NAS run). 
 

Both NUC and NAS need to either be accessed by another computer (iPad as well), that’s why I’m talking about RDT (or VLC) for PC, or an attached display and keyboard. A NAS has web interface, or can be accessed directly. (I‘m only familial with Qnap).

I understand your planning to have NUC or NAS downstairs. Good choice. 
Powerline should be fine. Wireless may not be better in your case. Your fritzbox 7360 V2 doesn’t support WiFi 5GHz. 
As that fritzbox 7360 V2 isn’t the hottest product of today, you may test out how easy you can control a player installed on that present stationery PC. I don’t expect a problem, but it may be an area of concern.

 

I suppose you’re using that fritzbox 7360 V2, cause you’re getting internet delivered by ASDL ?

 

Powerline normally works best on same circuit breaker. You may verify internal power wiring as well. Otherwise the option is to purchase an used Asus (RT-AC66U is OK) router (and put it in AP mode. You must also be familiar how to access that fritzbox 7360 V2, as you most likely need to access it’s DHCP server in order to locate ip addresses. The Asus will in any case be very helpful with displaying what’s on the network. 

 

When starting to understand your situation a bit better, you should probably start with a used NUC. This gives you more flexibility to start with and you will easier find out what SW to use. 
Also even though NUC > USB > DAC isn’t normally the preferred way to go, you at least can test out how you can control music with your phone using different SW. 
 

When you have tested things out, you can find out if like to switch to a NAS. And if your preferred sw and control is available for that NAS selected. If you go direct to a NAS, you may have limited options. You can as an example try to figure out how Tidal will play from NAS. (I have mentioned Plex).

 

If you could accept present computer downstairs online 24/7, things would be easier. Install Roon there, add that powerline to a SOtM or a Rendu and enjoy. That’s how simple it can be done 😀