So many options so little answers

[audiobomber]

I recommend ripping your CD's to an outboard USB hard drive. Connect the hard drive to an SOtM sMS-200 Neo music renderer, which includes a music server. Add an inexpensive wi-fi dongle and a freebie control program like Linn Kazoo, for control via your laptop or phone. Plug the sms USB out directly into your RME DAC. Plenty of opportunity for upgrades later if you wish, but out of the box, sound quality will surpass your NAD CD player.

 

The sms-200 can function as a Roon endpoint, and includes one year free access. I've been running without Roon for 3 years, and don't see any need whatsoever to buy it.

https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-200/

https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-200/#toggle-id-13

[audiobomber]

31 minutes ago, bluesman said:

A Neo is great - but it has no WiFi so you must use Ethernet with it. It gives you many options for player software, and it’d be worth the cost to me if I wanted what it offers.  But for SQ, a well done Pi is so close that it’s my choice. FWIW, I have 7 of them in different systems, for listening, ripping, live recording, and experimenting. $55 USD vs $450 is not a hard choice for me.

 

If you don’t use a NAS, your drives have to be accessible somehow. I don’t think you can connect them directly to a Neo.

As per my previous post and link, the sms-200 Neo does allow wi-fi with an inexpensive dongle mounted, and will act as a server for a directly connected USB drive (Minimserver is included in the software).

 

I found quite a difference in sound quality when I had to temporarily use my Raspberry Pi 3B+ instead of the sms-200 in my main system.

 

Using an iPower SMPS with the Neo was a sonic improvement over the stock PSU. A regulated LPS provided a substantial improvement over the iPower. The Raspberry showed no improvement when I substituted the iPower for the stock PSU. I did not try the linear power supply (wrong voltage).

 

The RPi is a great device if saving $ is a main goal. With $1000 budget, the Neo and a hard drive or NAS would be my choice.

[audiobomber]

54 minutes ago, Bliman said:

Does anyone know here if the price difference between the Sotm 200-Neo and the Ultra version is justified? The Ultra version is almost 3 times as expensive.

I have not tried the sms-200Ultra, but the manufacturer has stated that an sms-200 with tx-Ultra will outperform an sms-200Ultra. You don't need anything to start except for the basic sms-200. You should start there, add later if you think you need to. 

 

If you get your info from ASR, you will most likely end up with mediocre sound. They are not audiophiles, they are technophiles. Simple static measurements do not define sound quality.

[audiobomber]

1 hour ago, Bliman said:

I see that the SOtM is highly recommended and then Audioscience says it even can harm the music. So it is basically who you believe.

I noticed a couple of things in Amir's "review" of the sms-200. 

 

> I plan to do some listening tests

 

Did he? No, he did not. At least he did not report on any listening experience. Maybe he would have had to admit that his simplistic measurements are worthless for predicting sound quality.

 

> The added noise is well below threshold of audibility

 

If the noise (with a cheap switch mode power supply) can't be heard, then why is it a concern? The sms-200 is designed to stream music. It should be judged with music, not by simplistic measurements. Music is a dynamic, constantly changing set of complex signals, not a single, simple sine wave.

 

That site is so full of crap. 

[audiobomber]

1 hour ago, bluesman said:

But then you’re using the same USB bus for both incoming files and outgoing digital audio to the DAC, which can cause audible SQ degradation.  High res or DSP’ed files along with WiFi could even push the limits of USB2.  I’d stick with Ethernet in and USB out.

No, the output and input USB ports are not the same:

 

- High-End audio grade USB port x 1
- USB 2.0 port x 2

 

Another solution is to connect the SMS to a wi-fi extender/repeater that has an ethernet port, but I don't think that is necessary.

[audiobomber]

11 minutes ago, bluesman said:

Having two USB ports with different names doesn’t mean two busses.  If each is on a separate buss, bandwidth and interference are not problems.  But the SOtM specs for the Neo only give one max current rating (0.5A) for all USB ports, which suggests to me that there’s only one USB bus. And there’s no description of the circuit design to clarify this.

 

The OP’s DAC is self-powered, so that half an ampere is available to any other USB devices connected to the Neo.  But that’s the maximum available to all in combination, and a WiFi dongle dissipates about half a watt.  So no other USB peripheral can be connected to the 3rd port if if dissipates more than about 1.75 watts to leave some headroom. For example, that means no HDD or SSD for music files.

 

I don’t think depending on USB is a good idea.  I’d use a NAS and Ethernet.

There are three USB ports, one of which is a clean bus for audio. It is pretty clear that there is a separate bus for audio, otherwise why not just say there are three USB ports? 

 

Where do you see there is only 0.5A for all USB ports? The 0.5A rating is the maximum current for each individual port. The two input ports share a bus. From the website: "Recommend using the USB storage device which get powered separately.", which would allow up to 0.5A for the wi-fi dongle and 0.5A for a DAC.

 

 

 

[audiobomber]

I've used two DAC's that needed USB power with the SMS-200, the Korg DS-DAC-10R and the Benchmark DAC3.

[audiobomber]

1 hour ago, bluesman said:

AFAIK, the Benchmark DAC3 is not USB powered - it has an internal PS and a line cord.

Yes, it has a line cord but will not run with the 5V pin blocked. I believe the designer stated somewhere that the DAC does use USB power. Just having an AC cord does not determine that. 

[audiobomber]

I don't use Roon and never will because I don't see that the cost is justified. I have a QNAP NAS that includes a controller called Music Station for windows and the very similar QMusic for Android. I can stream music stored in the NAS to any of my players (exaSound Playpoint, sMS-200, Raspberry Pi,Vizio TV, or Google Chromecast Audio, Chromecast and Nest Minis). I can group the Google streamers for background music. Mostly I listen to my own music but I subscribe to Google Play Music and YouTube Music, and can play them through any of the above streamers. 

 

As far as I can see, Roon doesn't offer any value as a controller over what I am using. I realize Roon has info on artists and the music, but I can get more from Wikipedia and allmusic.com than Roon provides. Previous experiences with Roon and Tidal resulted in less than optimal sound compared to files on my NAS, not sure why.

[audiobomber]

55 minutes ago, bluesman said:

Good to know - thanks. Now the remaining questions is whether there’s a separate dedicated USB bus in the Neo for the audio output.

I asked SOtM for confirmation, but not sure it matters. The sms-200 sounds better than a Raspberry Pi, microRendu and the Allo digital transports according to my research.

[audiobomber]

21 hours ago, bluesman said:

Good to know - thanks. Now the remaining questions is whether there’s a separate dedicated USB bus in the Neo for the audio output.

I received a reply from May Park of SOtM, confirming what I originally stated, there is a dedicated USB bus for audio:

 

Hi Dan, 

Yes, there are two USB buses in the sMS-200.

 

Thank you.

Best regards, May

[audiobomber]

9 minutes ago, Bliman said:

I would like to control it with my smartphone (no Iphone).

This is the most difficult for me. I get bombarded with all these types of software (audionirvana, daphile, j-river, roon, iPeng). This works for that another for this. This NAS doesn't work with that another device doesn't work with that. It is to go nuts.

 

 

So I thought I would go the route of streaming (or what it is called) as a solution. And maybe at Tidal at a later date.

But boy oh boy it is not pleasant to go that route.

I thought let's go for the SOtM route that looks to be pretty simple. I am not a noob with pc's (I often help my friends with pc's) but this is just not pleasant.

 

I know next to nothing about computers yet I don't find my system difficult to configure or operate. The QNAP NAS has an internal music program  called Music Station for my Windows laptop and a very similar program called QMusic for my Android phone. SOtM's Eunhasu software is very easy to manage and works well with QNAP. It's a simple solution.

I don't use Tidal but you can manage it through QNAP Music Station, there is a dedicated link for it.

[audiobomber]

11 minutes ago, Bliman said:

What NAS do you have? And you also have the SOtM 200?

I am using the QNAP TS-451+ with 8GB Ram and four 4TB drives in RAID configuration. I don't need anywhere near that much for music, but I am also an amateur photographer with thousands of photos to store. There are much cheaper choices from QNAP.

 

I have been using the sMS-200 for three years, along with several other streamers for my four audio systems.

[audiobomber]

10 hours ago, bluesman said:

Thanks!  We really don't know what makes the "audio" USB port special, other than a label.  It carries power, so that's not a difference.  And you've proven that the standard USB ports also send audio to a DAC.  So this remains a mystery!

Second reply from May Park, Worldwide Sales Manager for SOtM, and consulted with the designer to confirm.

 

Kamal is the North American distributor, not a direct SOtM employee. This question is settled AFAIC, there are two busses:

 

Hi Dan, 

No, Kamal may misunderstood it, there are  two USB buses in the sMS-200, and it is the answer from the designer of the sMS-200

 

Best regards, May

[audiobomber]

3 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

It not only rips CDs quietly while you’re listening to music (have you ever sat in front of a PC ripping CD’s? Its one of THE most boring activities, right up there with watching paint dry), but it also collects then files all the meta data, checks the integrity of the file and identifies and quarantines any problem files, all in background, automatically. Using a PC, all those steps are manual, clunky and require constant user intervention. 

I rip CD's on a laptop, using Windows Media Player with file checking active. File folders for artists and albums are created automatically, with metadata. I can listen to music while files are being ripped, using any of my other programs (PowerDVD, Music Station, Foobar2000). So what exactly is the advantage of the above?

[audiobomber]

10 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

I press a button, insert a CD, 5 minutes later put it back in its case. Job done.  And that’s the long version. 

For the next CD I simply insert it into the drive then pop it back in its cover when it reappears.  The drive is almost silent so doesn’t interfere with listening to the music. The file is placed on my internal drive, in the correct directory, ready to be played with a single mouse click via iPeng. There’s no PC with its noisy drive, noisy power supply and constant unrelated CPU activity. I can isolate the Server so it only sees network traffic related to actually playing a file and then only while the file loads into RAM. But most important is the SQ I obtain.  With a single click I can play a Radio Station, stream a favorite album from Quboz or Tidal, or play one of the Albums i ripped. 

I spent several years ripping CDs with dB Poweramp and all the associated bits and pieces. The results were OK for the car or my Cowon Plenue but for serious listening on a revealing system it really wasn’t that great.  Innuos set out to design a system that sounds great and at the same time fully integrates all the other associated processes required to load and play music from all the regular local and remote sources. 

 

Ripping on a laptop is nowhere near as inconvenient as you make it out to be. WMP copies the file straight into a folder, on my NAS or laptop, whichever I specify, with no further action required. A file ripped on a laptop with WMP and file checking will sound identical to an Innuos rip when played back through the same replay chain. 

 

The Innuos sounds like a good option for the OP to consider. Another option is an outboard hard drive with an sMS-200, which also plays stored content, Roon, Tidal, Qobuz and radio stations. Ripping would need to be done elsewhere. Using a server instead of a hard drive provides other benefits (file-sharing, remote access, safer storage, play photo slideshows and video).

[audiobomber]

14 hours ago, Bliman said:

Why is it important to set the NUC besides the DAC?

What difference does it make if I put my NUC in the router and put a network cable from the router to the SOtM above? Or put a network cable in the router and put it in the NUC above and from there a network cable to the SOtM?

Wouldn't it be better to have the NUC downstairs where I don't have problems with noise in my room and have access to a keyboard, mouse, and screen.

You don't need both an sMS-200 and a NUC. They are both small-board computers, you only need one, working on wi-fi, and connected to your DAC via USB. I would suggest the sMS-200 as an easier plug & play solution. The hard drive can be connected to your router, or to the sms.

[audiobomber]

31 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

How will the OP be able to play music with this solution ? (Only SMS-200)

(He only has a android phone in addition, which only can access a 2.4 GHz WiFi).

 

Edit:

@sedest

Was your intention to answer this with that post below ?

(If so, please elaborate). 

 

sMS-200 now supports USB Wi Fi , f/w ver.0.3.0. and you are able to use USB Wi Fi feature.

The USB Wifi dongle should use RTL8812AU chipset to work with sMS-200 WiFi feature.

 

The sMS operating system comes with MinimServer and DLNA/MPD pre-installed, connects to the router via wi-fi, control with his  Android phone through UPnP/DLNA/MPD (foobar2000, Linn Kazoo, BubbleUPnP, etc). 

 

[audiobomber]

12 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

The OP likes to use Tidal as well. (Maybe Qobuz? or other streaming services). Does the MinimServer support that ?

So he’s restricted to use MinimServer old version only then ?

The sMS supports Qobuz and Tidal streaming and is a Roon end-point. Minimserver can be updated from the Minimserver site, so it is always the current version. From the sMS-200 (Eunhasa) DLNA page:

 

Tidal streaming config

ID or Email

Password

Quality                                               Select quality                                                   low                                               high                                               lossless                                             

Enter your TIDAL ID & Password. And select TIDAL streaming quality according to your account type, 'Low' or 'High' are for Premium account and 'Lossless' is for HiFi account.

 

Qobuz streaming config

ID or Email

Password

Format                                               Select format                                                 normal                                               lossless                                             

Enter your Qobuz ID & Password. And select Qobuz streaming format, 'Normal' is for MP3 and 'Lossless' is for FLAC.

 

Save changes Cancel