Recommendations for a network streamer for my system playing Tidal Masters

[LawrenceT]

I am looking for a high-end network streamer possibly with a built-in DAC to add to my audio system primarily to play Tidal Master (MQA) (vs. Qobuz not available in Canada), as I finally want to get away from using CDs.  I am not intending on ripping my old CDs or running a NAS necessarily. 

 

 

My system is from 2005 and includes:

emmlabs CDSD (CD/SACD) transport

emmlabs DCC2  DAC/preamp

Lamm M1.2 monoblock amps

 Kharma Midi-Grand céramique 3-way speakers

 

Ultimately I am looking for a network streamer that will be able to play Tidal Masters (not necessarily MQA) with a natural and musical sound quality that will complement the type of components I have. 

 

First, I was wondering about just a network streamer and optically connecting to DCC2 as my DAC/preamp but worry that some of the current DACs within network streamer players may produce a better result for streaming than using my DCC2.  I was wondering using the emmlabs NS-1 and connecting optically to the DCC2, but don't know how that well that would work.  Alternatively, using the simaudio MiND2 streamer and optically connect to my DCC2, as a signifcantly cheaper alternative to the NS-1..

 

Alternatively, going with a network streamer/DAC player I want to keep my budget at below $10K.  I live in a smaller city and don't have many stereo stores to audition equipment and with pandemic it is tough to travel to audition.  Therefore, I am going to have to go without audition most likely.    Based on reading I am thinking about things like:  

 

simaudio moon 390;

auralic Altair G1

Auralic Vega G1 (or possibly G2.1)

esoteric N-05

aurender A10

Lumin T2

Mytek Brooklyn Bridge

 

Thanks for your help.

[LawrenceT]

I had a serious week of listening and playing with the auralic Altair G1.  After listening to it for the first day, I kept going between CD/SACD on my 15 year old CDSD transport/DCC2 dac/pre and realized I much preferred listening to my older equipment.  I found the Altair too forward and the soundstage compressed.  Highs were a bit shrill and although it had more details/resolution, it was much less engaging, less immersive and not as relaxed/easy to listen as the DCC2.  I found it fatiguing after many hours.  Then, when my dealer came to pick it up after the week, he brought the AURALiC ARIES G2.1 (streamer only) which we plugged into my DCC2 with AES output.  Suddenly, I realized the potential of streaming and how important the network bridge is, as the music became more open, engaging and sounded much closer to playing CDs in my system.  The only problem was the DCC2 has to be manually set to 44.1 vs 48kHz, which was a pain as my playlist had a mix of FLAC/MQA and I couldn't send DSF files through the AES input.  But it showed me that to replace what I am used to may take a bigger investment on a single (all in one streamer/DAC)  or two boxes (streamer + DAC).  In the process I probably want a more modern DAC.   Not easy to audition in the time of COVID, as I can't leave outside my Atlantic bubble of provinces without 2 weeks quarantine at home (unable to work)...   For now I will continue to listen to CDs and stream Tidal through my Mac until I can figure out the route. 

[LawrenceT]

11 hours ago, EMM Labs said:

We will have a new route for you soon Lawrence

 

Cheers from EMM Labs

Very anxious to hear the details, as my MacBook Pro streaming TIDAL FLAC into the DCC2 via coax is not replacing CDs played on the aging CDSD & the DCC2.  Of course if you have a spare demo NS-1 to send me while I wait ...

[LawrenceT]

6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

You only need a one time US IP address for registration and you’re good to go with Qobuz. This is archived with VPN unless you have a US friend that can register on your behalf. 
 

I've done that it in the past, but with the borders closed I can't seeing getting to the US anytime soon!!!  I need to find a VPN that can fool the registration !

[LawrenceT]

6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

You would probably need a Roon server as well 😀

SonicTransporter, NUC with ROCK or a Nucleus

(You don’t need a NAS for storing CD - rips)

 

It's getting too complicated, if for the most part I just want to play Tidal or Qobuz hi-res files or perhaps some DSD stored on a USB drive, as I want to get away from buying/storing CD/(SACDs). Can someone explain whether using a Roon server (e.g. nucleus) to stream Tidal into a network streamer (e.g. auralic Vega 2.1) would sound better than just hooking the ethernet cable directly into the streamer.  

 

If it does sound better, WHY ?

[LawrenceT]

6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

You should probably add the Sonore Signature SE  paired with an Uptone etherRegen to the list. The latter you should order in any case what streamer you decide to go for. 

From Chris review of another emmlabs DAC. 

The best sound, without question, was had by pairing the DV2 with the Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical feeding the USB input of the DV2

 

You would probably need a Roon server as well 😀

SonicTransporter, NUC with ROCK or a Nucleus

(You don’t need a NAS for storing CD - rips)

 

You only need a one time US IP address for registration and you’re good to go with Qobuz. This is archived with VPN unless you have a US friend that can register on your behalf. 
 

Edit:

I now noticed your DAC hasn’t an USB input. That is solved with a USB to SPDIF converter. 
I can understand why you may consider a new DAC, but if your current one serves you well, done correctly, you should get equal or better sound with streaming as with CD. 
 

But how are you able to stream from that MAC ?

Of course when I bought the DCC2 in 2005 it was after a lot of auditioning of CD transports/DACs & CD players and the emmlabs sound won me over.  Obviously I haven't rushed to replace in 15 years, but at the same time DACs are now so advanced from 2004/5.   Continuing with the DCC2 as my source DAC is not ideal as I need to manually switch between 44.1 vs. 48kHz and I'm not sure how I can easily send DSD files to the DAC.  Right now, I got a inexpensive solution to stream my MacBook Pro using a used Schiit EITR I bought from Canuck Audio mart running USB cable from my 2016, 13" MacBook Pro into the EITR and then connecting SPDIF coax into the DCC2 and limiting my Tidal account to HI-Fi (FLAC) so I don't have to change the base frequency between 44.1 and 48.  I'm trialing Audirvana vs. Roon so I can control the music with my iPhone.  I realize there are much better USB to SPDIF converters than the EITR, but this is a temporary solution for now until I decide on a streamer/DAC for the next 15 years...

[LawrenceT]

7 hours ago, R1200CL said:

you should get equal or better sound with streaming as with CD. 

Actually with the Schiit Eitr, AQ forest usb-c >> usb-B cable and an unnamed digital COAX cable it doesn't sound that bad compared to the CDs...  Could try a better COAX I guess for now ?

[LawrenceT]

2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

I found the manual for your DAC online. It seems input samples rate can’t be altered by the remote. But I don’t think it’s an issue. As said you can set this in Roon. You should also limit output to 96khz, (Most relevant for Qobuz or local files). 
 

Do you have any DSD files BTW ? The manual doesn’t say what DSD rate is supported.

 

You DAC has some interesting options. It was maybe ahead of its time. You may regret selling it 😀

Adding a master clock can do something. I don’t know the required frequency. But anyway not something to focus on now. 

Here is another experiment for you. Be careful. 
Bypass the internal preamp and connected the DAC direct to your amp. (Just move the cables to analog line output). Don’t do this with power on. This will feed your amplifier with full volume. So you can’t use this with your CD player. I suppose you already during testing has switched off Roon volume control. Now you can activate it. Set volume to zero and start play, and increase carefully. Does it sound better ?

 

As a general advice, balanced cables is preferred. 

 

Thanks for all of your input.Much appreciated.

 

Not sure I want to go the Roon way just yet.  I have 9 days left on my trial.  But Audirvana is working just fine so far with the Macbook.  

 

Let's see what emmlabs has coming...

[LawrenceT]

17 hours ago, R1200CL said:

What’s the limitations using NS1 with DCC2 via EMM Labs Optilink. 
Meaning max DSD rate, and max PCM (I guess 24 bit / 96khz). 
What about DoP support ? (Or is that the only DSD support NS1 does ) ?

We started off the search with looking at the NS-1.  But my legacy DCC2 can’t connect by Optilink, so we are looking at AES or Toslink to connect the streamer to the DAC.   I initially thought MQA was important to me, but the more I read the less important that seems.  But playing DSD, DSF files would be nice.  Waiting to see what emmlabs has coming in the future ...

[LawrenceT]

5 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

According to manual it has, correct ? Ref. Picture in post above. 

 

I asked the company the same thing. But I think my legacy DCC2 doesn’t allow connection with emmlabs Optilink.  Maybe the link has been modified since 2005.  I was told AES or toslink were my only connection options. 

[LawrenceT]

4 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

How do you connect DCC2 and CDSD today

It is connected with the included ATT glass BNC cables.  Three of them (one for data and two for clock).  But I was told this is not the Same as the Optilink on the NS1.  

[LawrenceT]

On 9/6/2020 at 7:51 AM, R1200CL said:

Here is a simple test you can do. This should sound better. 
Purchase the CCK to your iPhone and make the iPhone an endpoint. 
Make sure it’s the CCK, not anything else.  
Meaning you disconnect the MacBook and control Roon from there. 
The trick to make this work is to turn of private zone

Tried this today.  Sounded great but then when I went back to MacBook I wasn’t sure that iPhone was better. So I went back to MacBook so I could use my iPhone as wireless remote control. 

[LawrenceT]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

 

You are using Roon ? So the phone is acting as an endpoint controlled by your MAC. 

Got a second DAC ? (What is IEM)

IEM= in-ear monitors

 

I've hooked the phone up to my stereo two ways.  One with Roon, using the iPhone as a Roon endpoint, connecting the lightning to USB-3 camera adapter to the Schiit EITR > coax > DCC2 DAC.  Second, I used the iPhone without Roon, using the iOS Tidal app to send the audio output through the lightning to USB-3 camera adapter to the Schiit Eitr > coax >DCC2 (DAC).  Either way, I didn't noticeably hear EMI noise (?LTE) from my iPhone in my speakers.  Yet, when I use to iPhone and Tidal app to play music through lightning to USB-3 camera adapter to the Earmen Sparrow DAC and then connect Fiio in-ear monitors (IEM) to the balanced output of the Sparrow I get intermittent iPhone EMI noise in the in-ear monitors.  It is not continuous and can be eliminated if I put the phone on airplane mode and play downloaded files from Tidal.

 

[LawrenceT]

3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Aqua LinQ

Sounds wonderful, until I saw price for just a network bridge.