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What has produced the greatest sound improvement for you?


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In your audio system, what has produced the greatest improvement impacting on sound quality or better musical experience? Not just 'maybe a bit different' but in your opinion clearly better.

 

It could be software, hardware, room treatments, tweaks whatever. What single thing or things stands out that you would definitely recommend to others?

Sound Minds Mind Sound

 

 

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16 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

Each element (name it) improves vastly (and not just different). But the most surprising is the PC. Of course I know this for years, but today I may regard the PC more important than the DAC.

 

Peter

 

Hi Peter, you obviously produce an audio computer and there has been a lot of interest lately with the new CAPS server as well as the Taiko Extreme. Without giving away proprietary secrets is there something more specific about what part of the PC is so important?

Sound Minds Mind Sound

 

 

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13 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

David - thanks. This is nothing much about proprietary matters. For me this is about an overkill of "capacity" (contrary to CAPS like machines), combined with the ultra-fastness of the PSU elements, that in itself combined with the fact that it should not be a switching PSU (which are inherently ultra-fast - just saying). Next up, and this is about the real finesse, it is about a super stable current usage (think shunt-like). If you now compare with the contenders (or with Taiko, or with CAPS-like), you can see differences all over the place. Think in the realm of 40 cores, weighing 14Kg/31lbs only (including linear PSU, including cooling and dead silent, not even water cooled).

 

I did not want to make this a commercial / self-advertisement. I only can't put enough emphasis on the importance of the PC (playback machine).

 

 

Thanks Peter.

As far as I am concerned as OP, and I hope @The Computer Audiophile will agree/permit, you can plug your products as much as you like. My interest is in finding out what things make an improvement and why. To the extent that you're willing to share that information, I say let's do it. That applies to any other manufacturer by the way.

 

As you know I am not from a technical background but I don't think anyone would disagree with the concept of having a linear power supply for a PC, your emphasis seems to be on speed/capacity. The other thing I'm taking away is stable current usage and the need for multiple cores.

 

Sound Minds Mind Sound

 

 

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4 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

In your audio system, what has produced the greatest improvement impacting on sound quality or better musical experience? Not just 'maybe a bit different' but in your opinion clearly better.

 

It could be software, hardware, room treatments, tweaks whatever. What single thing or things stands out that you would definitely recommend to others?

 

Are you joking.? The things with the round, yellow elements!

 

DSC4143 1

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I totally agree with @PeterSt on the audio pc as the biggest improvement in SQ. Only I have been upgrading my pc part for part I am sometimes amazed by what a change can do, S.W., apacer industrial ram, power supply. For instance I recently upgraded my diy lps for a different diy lps and the gain in lower noise and 3Dness was really significant.

Over the not al that many years I am playing with pc’s I am beginning to think that maybe the source is being the biggest improver of SQ, If the rest is up to scratch naturally

Meitner ma1 v2 dac,  Sovereign preamp and power amp,

DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator.

Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution.

Under development:

NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz.

Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2

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2 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Ah yes,

 

53.jpg.bf7c43f3843ff610626d65c500c1d4b4.jpg

 

I know you were joking but to make things absolutely clear - these closed enclosure floorstanders' crossovers cut off their bass at 60Hz, they were designed to work with the subs and were sold as a set.

 

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7 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

What single thing or things stands out that you would definitely recommend to others?


--Dedicated AC power line.

--Room treatments.

--Dual subs.


Other elements do/did improve sound quality for sure, but the items above were very big gains, and on this forum, most probably already have a system "dialed-in."

 

I think the uninterrupted "home-run" from the panel to the audio area would be a benefit to anyone. And perhaps clean power supplies should be included to make a generic statement: improve power.
 

I feel strongly others would also benefit from room treatment/management, but if you have a less than optimum space, it is worth serious consideration.

 

My room is oddly shaped, with a low ceiling. When I brought speakers home to try I was floored by how much worse they sounded  than in the shop. Who stole my bass?
 

So, I read around various product sites and tutorials on room treatments and sound management, and incrementally added things, listened, and added things. 
 

I am fortunate that I can design and build things myself, when desired, so it allows a lot of freedom in customization. 
 

For some inexplicable reason, Sweetie has let me run absolutely wild building the system and the room. Makes no sense at all.

 

 

1E03C3FB-9132-46C7-86EF-EA4A94E219DF.jpeg

I'm MarkusBarkus and I approve this post.10C78B47-4B41-4675-BB84-885019B72A8B.thumb.png.adc3586c8cc9851ecc7960401af05782.png

 

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14 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:


--Dedicated AC power line.

--Room treatments.

--Dual subs.


Other elements do/did improve sound quality for sure, but the items above were very big gains, and on this forum, most probably already have a system "dialed-in."

 

I think the uninterrupted "home-run" from the panel to the audio area would be a benefit to anyone. And perhaps clean power supplies should be included to make a generic statement: improve power.
 

I feel strongly others would also benefit from room treatment/management, but if you have a less than optimum space, it is worth serious consideration.

 

My room is oddly shaped, with a low ceiling. When I brought speakers home to try I was floored by how much worse they sounded  than in the shop. Who stole my bass?
 

So, I read around various product sites and tutorials on room treatments and sound management, and incrementally added things, listened, and added things. 
 

I am fortunate that I can design and build things myself, when desired, so it allows a lot of freedom in customization. 
 

For some inexplicable reason, Sweetie has let me run absolutely wild building the system and the room. Makes no sense at all.

 

 

1E03C3FB-9132-46C7-86EF-EA4A94E219DF.jpeg

 

I have gone for the first two on your list, definitely. I also think Sweetie gave her/his approval very wisely for the Revel speakers. In my humble opinion they are giantkillers. (I sure hope I identified the correct speakers but they sure do look like Revel salon 2 which I have listened to for many many hours).

Sound Minds Mind Sound

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

sure do look like Revel salon 2 which I have listened to for many many hours).

...these are actually the Revel Studio2s. I like them a lot and as I have tweaked things, they have always been up to the challenge.
 

And one would think they have ample bass, but in this room, the low frequency waves run wild without management. Now, I feel they are able to deliver intellectual *and* emotional music.

I'm MarkusBarkus and I approve this post.10C78B47-4B41-4675-BB84-885019B72A8B.thumb.png.adc3586c8cc9851ecc7960401af05782.png

 

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4 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

Okay cool. What is the name of the speaker/subwoofer set?

 

I don't think anyone here has heard of the brand although its creator took part in e.g. Las Vegas..

1721328877_ManfredLasVegasCES1998.jpg.3b97de009c3d20c9d4bc8cf293952922.jpg

and Frankfurt audio shows. 

484308906_manfredfrankfurt99.thumb.png.9080b17c356fdf93633e4a08953f59ee.png

 

(please don't believe he was only interested in home cinema, quite the opposite, as for being an audio anarchist - in the very best sense - I would absolutely agree with that! :)

The full name of the set is quite long - Manfred Zoller HiFi Design Metropolis Solution 2003. 

The serial numbers seem to suggest this was his 4th set like this:

A-zoll4.jpg.b7197801ae865072e92272e493d1d22f.jpg

and I don't think he had made more than a dozen of them.

I actually know of two audio journalist who AFAIK still use his loudspeakers but in both cases these are cheaper models from 2000. One of them 2 or 3 years ago had mentioned for the very first time that two Wilson Audio $30-50k models he was reviewing, while having very similar balance to his Zollers were slightly better in some areas. 

Not bad for a much (!) cheaper 2000 speaker!  B|

As for me - no upgrade plans, I just love them!

 

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8 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

http://www.home-cinema.de/startseite.html

 

Here you can find the concepts of Mr. Zoller.
 

👍

I'm quite surprised, although I know the site (but not the language :)) but Zoller had and still has a kind of almost 'cult' following in some European countries - first of all in Germany of course.

You've heard about him before, I guess..(?)

 

 

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2 hours ago, DuckToller said:

No, not that I remember however I stopped following closely German audio media about 20 years ago ....

 

He was already in the business in the 90's but although I remember his early Solution (traditionally his commercial flagships were named like that), BTW looking exactly like these ones (quite original finish, isn't it, mine OTOH are finished in a more traditional way, he used a Mercedes lacquer in their case):

1535793866_manfredsolution.jpg.be939a77e63ea594f3928c41d93531f6.jpg

reaching some 'Spitzenklasse' in one of German audio magazines he wasn't that willing to let his speakers be reviewed. His opinion on German magazines was quite similar to mine and he  siply wasn't willing to pay for ads to get good reviews, actually he wasn't willing to pay for ads at all :D. His dealers were poor in a way (not necessarily in a financial sense 9_9) - he simply attempted to get some market position (I personally don't think he was that much interested in money, really..) based mainly on the quality on his speakers (and to some degree on the cult following he had in some circles but IMO the two are interconnected). And they sounded fabulous indeed already back then in the 90's. Most who had a chance to compare his Solution '96 or '98 with the flagship Wilson Audio or JMLab transducers did agree that they were better in every regard (faster, with more detail, air) with the exception of bass quantity (but not its quality, Zoller used to play bass guitar back then and as for bass speed and precision his speakers IMO are still among the very best) while costing nowhere near their prices. His used Focal drivers (he had been their distributor in Germany and started with his Focal kits but he soon realized people began simply to steal his designs to built speakers so he stopped selling kits), very complicated, steep filtering crossovers which time/phase coherence has always been among the very best on the market and he used a term 'point source' (in the sense of time/phase coherence) even in relation to his 4-way constructions(!). All of his loudspeakers were highly efficient, mine reach 95db and easy to drive. One of the journalists whom I mentioned told me that tried my model with a SET and he could reach satisfying volume levels with rock (and I know he likes to listen to Bad Brains really loud B|). The amazing thing about his speakers was also the fact that even his two biggest models with big double woofers - Evolution and Solution (looked usually like that):

solution.jpg.8a8fbb8cb70d7c99b4e8655f03a072ea.jpg

used in much too small rooms made the bass boomy in a really surprisingly small degree. I guess this was the question of both bass drivers speed and bass reflexes tuning. They can play very loud without distortion and they start to sound good at very low levels which is quite rare with big loudspeakers which often need much more power to begin to 'sing'.

But.. in the early 2000's Focal stopped production of their polikevlar drivers (mine are among his latest speakers based on Focal).. and although Zoller did also use poliglass and other materials, his best transducers were always based on polikevlar mid/bass drivers and tioxid tweeters.. so he was in trouble.. He found some (also yellow) Chinese (!) drivers which he liked - they looked more or less like the ones here:

2 hours ago, DuckToller said:

Bild

Zoller's Synopsis 2 with RAAL tweeter, (pic from 2013/2014)
this in fact is a modular set up, consisting of
+ Synopsis 1 with RAAL for 2300 Euro (pair)
+ Synopsis Bass for 2900 (pair)
so starting prices 5200 Euro (pair)

but according to many people who heard them they weren't as good as his products based on the Focal polikevlar/tioxid drivers. I haven't heard them though, so this is not my opinion.

 

BTW his polikevlar speakers are usually on the bright side of reality, they are also very revealing and careful system matching is of high importance with them but due to these qualities they make the differences between both different recordings and different components almost ;) too obvious. Frankly - if someone doubts that different cables sound differently he should simply get a pair of speakers of similar class..

Speaking of cables - I used to repeat for years that IME as an ex-dealer based on demos (starting with $1k speakers), lending cables to my customers etc circa 75% of people can hear the differences between them. When a couple of years ago I read that Steve Guttenberg's (Stereophile) estimate on the same topic based on his experience as a dealer is exactly the same (!), I simply had come to the conclusion that it is very improbable it's a coincidence.. :)

Ok, I think I have gone waaay OT so going back to the OP's question I will only repeat one more time that IMO loudspeakers plus loudspeakers/room interaction are in circa 85% responsible for what we hear. A certain Manfred Zoller distributor once said that in his opinion it's 90% but I guess you know the people who are in the audio business as well as I do - they often exaggerate, in particular in regard to the gear they sell..;) anyway I somehow tend to think he didn't say the same thing to his ..Audionet customers... :D

 

One last remark - IMO we need more people like Manfred in the world of audio :)

 

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