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Buffalo GS20xx - Bypass 12V stage via 3 external PSs


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Hi Tims,

if you simply want to replace the internal PS, just plug yours on the 12V pins.

 

This thread is related to power the switch directly with the 3 voltages that are used on the PCB : 3.3 / 1.5 / 1VDC

No 12VDC PS needed in this mod, simply because the purpose is to bypass the regulation steps.

Please find below this photo with the voltage zones & regulation zone to see how it works =>

1882347009_20200701_223003-pins1-1.5-3.3VDCzones.thumb.jpg.5c036d7238721ad2b46ac7daa040bf5a.jpg

The size of the PCB of my GS2024 is a bit bigger than 2008 & 2016, but not much.

There is a 2nd heat sink on the GS2024, but if you find photos of the PCB of 2008 & 2016 you'll see that you have the same zone of down-regulation (there are not strictly at the same place vs GS2024 but the overall story is the same :

this is the GS2024 =>

599605706_GS2024-PCB.thumb.jpg.a6e1b4a60f2b828c82a22057316d31af.jpg

this a rough comparaison of 2024 vs 2016 PCB =>

460713842_PCBGS2016vsGS2024-2.thumb.jpg.d00076aa71dbecb24b622ff38e76abf6.jpg

 

 

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thanks for the photo zerung (I saw it somewhere).

Is it yours ?

 

Unfortunatly, this mod is not about the 3 voltage supply.

12VDC seems to be pretty well done, but then it's the regs on the PCB that still work.

 

The Pink Faun clock add-on : really cool. But unfortunatly we don't how it has been done. I asked the owner to know more or have a more precise photo where the clock has been soldiered : "I paid, fine for me. The technical stuff behind that, that's not my cup of tea"... a pity we get stuck to this photo without explanation...

Rgds

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Hi Zerung,

sorry about my last post, my point was not to be rude towards you or this kind of mods. Absolutly not.

My point was just to know some technical things about your modds :

how & where the Pink Faun for instance is plugged ?

- is it plugged on the part of the PCB that works @ 3.3VDC / 1.5VDC / 1VDC ?

I know that that kind of mod leads to a big jump in SQ. Totally agree vs this mod.

 

For instance, I received transfomer & LPS block (LT2045 based) from MPaudio yesteday : night/day vs the internal SMPS. Amazing that GS2024...

Rgds

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

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Hi Soul Analogue,

Very nice work.

 

Regarding the Amp @ 1V : I don't see how it can be so high.

For instance, I power the GS2024 at 12VDC => 0.8A max, thus : 9.6W at max.

How could ti be possible that the 1V rail uses more power than the device as a whole ?

Sure it is high current, but I'm like you => I'll check again & more precisely the 3 currents :-)

 

Do you know why the OCXO you tested did not power on ?

 

I think it is me that talked about the Pink Faun mod, saying that we do not see how they plug the clock under the heat sink.

So, based on your photo, you proceed like this : green wire is "clock" ? & black one ?

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the clock can be placed aside the heat sink, like Pink Faun did.

With 2 wires like on your photo. No !?

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

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Strange you did not manage to boot it.

See my post above => 

the Buffalo booted.

The issue then... was that the 1V required too much amps for my MPaudio block. But : it worked !

Knowing that the MPaudio block I used is limited at 2.5Amax. The 1V circuits should require 2.5A at very max. Maybe 1.5 or 2A..

Since this trial, I received this => https://fr.farnell.com/tenma/72-2985/multimetre-pince-amp-auto-100a/dp/2667180 ; now the Amp measurement will be more precise & easy to do. Very simple & efficient device.

 

The photo of PinkF work was on the other thread => see my post for instance, here (the pb is that we see nothing "interesting" => 

 

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hi tims,

my GS2024 runs at 12VDC and uses 0.9Amax

so with 6A available you have much more than enough amps to power your 2 switches ! A Y cable & it gonna be fine. No pb.

Rgds

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

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Well done Ricky !

 

Regarding the amps, do you have a wattmeter or something to know how much the power SMPS deliver ?

the best is to use an amperemeter to check the amps at each voltage. It is on my todo list, this week.

7.5V/5A it is its max output ? not what it really deliver ?

Then, as your way to deliver the power is a chain 3.3 > 1.5 > 1, we can't guess the amps at each voltage this way (I think).

 

When I power it, I'll use a 4ports USB charger, 1 port per voltage, and will use a amperemeter to check the amps at each voltage. I'll do it quickly because last time the buck converter on the 1V got hot quickly (like you).

Apparently we face high currents (not too high anyway), thus, the final setup I see is : custom transformer (MPaudio can do that ; 4-6weeks delay ; around 70eur).

A "custom" transfo to get a tight dV at the regs (1V should be efficient vs regulation & not too big to keep the heat at minimum).

For instance / the 1VDC : I'll need 1+1=2VDC upstream the regs => with 2*0.4V=0.8V voltage drop in the diode bridge & the ratio 1.41 => (2VDC + 0.8) / 1.41 = 1.985VAC. So a rough 2VAC transfo output would be ok to get the 1VDC with a tight dV=1V at regs.

Hope this rough calculation is ok.

I think using a custom transfo is the only way to manage thoses V & A, and avoid at max the issues regarding the heat transfer at regs due to too high voltage drop.

 

You plugs the GRD of each voltage to the caps next to screws ? Interesting. Equipolarity by doing so ? I'll use your method, thanks.

Rgds

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

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Great work Soul Analogue !

 

I'll do it shortly on my GS2024.

Hope that "bigger switch" does not mean "bigger amps" :-)

Interesting your remark regarding the higher current / SFP. I need 1...

 

Regarding power consumption of SFP ports, the rough figure I managed to get on my modded TP-Link SG5412F (3 external PS : 3.3V / 1.8V / 1VDC) : 1 more SPF activated => overall consumption up by 1W, but most of it on the 3.3V, not on the 1V. I'll need to check that point again.

Rgds

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

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hi,

just an idea regarding the tricky 1VDC : we can "not to deal with it". (I'm quick a noob in electronic vs you, so be kind 🙂 )

 

FYI, see this post & the next 2 ("phile" overthere it's me, "tgb" here) : http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-16891-post-381881.html#pid381881

 

As I replied in the post in the link above & following the feedback of Audiodemat : the key voltages are 3.3V (first) & 1.5V (2nd).

The 1V does not seems to act on SQ (assumption to be confirmed... maybe completly wrong...)

Based on that =>

1. as the amps @ 3.3V & 1.5V are rather small, they are easy to manage vs heat => we can look further & plan a nice & good PS for them

2. as the amps @ 1V are high & lead to trouble vs heat => no brainer because the 1V may not play a role in SQ => let's choose an easy & cheap way to deal with it.

 

This is the cheap & easy way I use :

I use a lot the Drok buck converters (for inst. when I tested the Buff) : very efficient stuff, good price, not noisy.

This one is a good one => https://www.droking.com/dc-power-supply/dc-buck/Adjustable-High-Power-Adapter-Buck-Voltage-Regulator-DC8-40V-to-1.25-36V-8A-100W-Converter-Laptop-Charger

As a power DC source : any USB charger. I use this one for testing when I need 5VDC => https://www.amazon.fr/RAVPower-Chargeur-Universel-Technologie-110-240V/dp/B00PRTBCYW?th=1

1 port can deliver 2A => use 2 ports and you get 4A (may need to add a resistor or cap in between if trouble but it may be as simple as that).

Then : as this good Drok (that can handle heavy currents) can not go lower than 1.25VDC => simply add some power resistors downstream (like this one I use and works well vs heat => https://www.conrad.fr/p/weltron-resistance-de-puissance-033-sortie-axiale-11-w-10-1-pcs-411710 ) 

 

Finally, the "cheap & easy setup" to manage the 1V would be :

USB charger (15eur) => 5VDC output => 2 Droks (8eur each), 2 Droks to split the need vs heat transfer, maybe need to add a resistor between the 2 Droks to help vs voltage regulation => some power resistors (6eur max) => to finally get the 1VDC.

 

Tip : b y adding the resistors after the regulation steps using the Drok modules you can guess the final voltage, so you simply have to use the trimer on the last Drok to finetune & get the final 1VDC.

 

My point is only about money efficiency. Dealing with 1.5 & 3.3V with noce Mpaudio or any LT3045 regs willl be easy vs heat

Dealing with 1V at 3-5A add cost, and if the SQ is not much affected by the 1V  : better to put $$ where it is relevant.

Just an idea & brainstorming 🙂

Rgds

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

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Hi,

quick feedback after long eve... 6hours... and finally half success (although I'm still not sure it will work :-) ).

I took the selfs off.

But then, I could not manage to boot the switch cause the 1V. I used a charger 5VDC, not enough amps cause limited to 2A ; I tried to use 2 ports but still not enough amps available.

Finally, I found in the bin the 1V self ... I roughly soldiered it back => reuse the 12V input to get the 1V like beofre (only 1V cause 3.3V & 1.5V are ok using external PS) => and the switch boots (nothing plugged) !

It's too late, I'll see tomorrow if it can really work.

 

The figures I got, without any RJ45 or SFP on the GS2024 :

1.5V : 0.32A, stable

3.3V : up & down 0.4 <> 1.4A

1V : ? amps. Based on the 12V input, I have up-down 0.26-0.3A at 12VDC.

 

I admit I tried to go back to the 1V powered thru the 12V because using an 5VDC external PS, to go down to 1V => the heat sink of the buck was too hot (>50°C). I felt not secure with that.

I'm a noob in electronics, so, managing 4A at 1V, I'm not used to :-)

 

I hope that tomorrow I can get some music out of this tricky switch ! :-)

 

Very strange this switch compared to my Tp-link SG5412F :

on the tp-link, all currents are stable => 0.92A for 3.3VDC, 0.77A for 1.8VDC & only 0.93A for 1VDC (very far from the 3-4-5?amps on the Buff at 1V).

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

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Hi,

sorry i'm lazy to translate rigth now, please use Google Translate, please find there the last mod => http://forum-hifi.fr/thread-16891-post-382981.html#pid382981 (this post and the next ones).

Just ask if you need more info, right here.

 

To make it short :

I'm not expert, thus impossible for me to feed 1VDC at 4A minimum. So, the 1VDC is fed thru the input connector with 5VDC. As the 2 selfs on 3.3 & 1.5VDC are out => all the current goes to the 1VDC circuit.

As I wrote 1hours ago or so on the forum-hifi :

current on 3.3VDC is quite high : moving from 0.7 to 1.5A. I even lost the Buff htis night so I thnik it needed a pick above the 2A that the PS can deliver. Thus a 2.5A PS for the 3.3V seems to be a mnimum.

All tests are done with only 2 ports in use : 1 SFP (to other switch) & 1 RJ45 (to the streamer).

 

Interesting stuff. Final setup is not the one I expected but the high current at 1VDC is not for nood in electronics like me :-)

 

@Tims :

powering the Buff with 5VDC instead of 12VDC should work, no problem. The issue is simply the amps : let's say thatyou need a PS able to deliver 3A minimum at 5VDC ; at 2A the PS will be close to its maximum output at steady state, so not secure.

Exact, as you say & as I learn yeateday on the forum-hifi from patatras : powering with 5VDC instead of 12VDC leads to better SQ.

Rgds

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

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@tims I correct my previous post : 5VDC at input instead of 12VDC => issues ahead.

Honestly, if you plan to try any mod on this Buff => wait for comments (I'll post my latest mods here for instance), that states that, over a few days, the mod is fine & the Buff runs OK at steady state.

 

Although you're an expert in electronics or you can short-circuit a Buff & you don't care because your retailer have plenty of them. I'm fine, try & bring some info :-)

If you're a noob like me : wait & see :-)

if you're a noob & like this tricky challenges : go for it :-)

 

News from the weekend : this Buff is a trap for DIYer, I think...

all weekend : it boots > Buff back to hifi setup > music streaming > the Buff loose the network > can't make it boot again > Buff out of hifi setup to desk to try another way to power it > back to hifi setup > boot > music streaming > the buff loose the network > can't... > back to desk > etc...

x times...

music has been in the air for 1h, but... don't know if this time it will last all night, or stop within 30min or 1h

 

If I wasn't a cool & calm guy, I could a play freebies withe the Buff tis afternoon & beat the longest throw :-)

Rgds

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11 minutes ago, RickyV said:


I have the 3.3v  running from a 1A lt3045 without it getting hot.

oh oh !...

I think I screwed up somewhere...  🙂

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hi Exocer

You're, you should try a LPS instead of the stock SMPS. Jump is right there.

You have PoE version. Then, if you move to LPS, I think you'll have to power to the righ pins on the PCB, to power the switching part only, & no power to PoE. Otherwise it is useless & pricey to put a LPS to power the PoE part. Just a guess, as I have a gs2024, without PoE.

 

To be honest regarding the 3 external PS : when it will be ready, the Buff will remains without its hood/top. Then, to make it boot & work, because voltages are low and currents are high, all wires have to be as short as possible (from transfo to Mpaudio reg step AND from MPaudio bloc to PCB). Espacially with a transfo as PS, with a SMPS it is less true. But anyway, few centimeters are ok, >20cm is not. So, you have to find a way to put the mpaudio bloc & transfo close to eachother & close to the PCB... DIY stuff !

I'm curious about the result... Hope this PS based on transfo will work, but without testing I'm still not sure it will boot... It works ok on 1.5 & 3.3, but 1VDC @ 2.5A is a different story.

Will see :-)

Rgds

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

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Waouh ! Nice picture ! The 1st of a PoE version I think.

Very different design due to the PoE !?

 

Just based on your pic, the PoE seems to be a simple add-on feature to a GS2016.

If you disconnect the 2 connectors from the PoE board (with the sticker "1G" on the wires), does the switch works perfectly ?

If it works, then you can simply take off the PoE board, the internal PS & simply mod it as a standard GS2016... I hope it can boot & work without PoE...

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  • 1 month later...

Hi RickyV,

it's coming ! Still some days to wait for testing ! :-)

A bit long that mod but :

- according to my "basic" calculation (VDC output = VAC input*1.41 -0.8), I needed a 2.1VAC transfo => but Micheal from MPaudio told me that at : as we have very low voltage & high intensity, the best is to have a transfo that deliver a higher voltage that needed. This extra-voltage will be "lost" somehow with 2 stuffs : the length of wires (at very low voltage, you loose voltage vs wire length), and as the transfomers are "slow" (by design) & we have high intensity, it may deliver a bit less than th expected voltage (2nd steps leading to a lower voltage than expected).

So : he ran some tests => conclusion was => a transformer with 2.7VAC output would be safe.

 

Then, I asked for a module ALS-HPULN (to deal with the 3.5A), without heat sink => the point is that the heat sink of standard ALS is too small to deal with the watts to dissipate (I found a nice one).

Problem... on Monday I received the parcel with modules & transfos... but the modules had their standard heat sink tapped ! :-) (mistake from my side... I changed so many times this order...) => so => today I'll post back to MPa the 2 nice ALS with heat sink & just have to wait for 2 new ALS without heat sink.

Let's wait for 1 or 2weeks (max !)...

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  • 1 month later...

Great SoulAnalogue !

All in a custom box.... nice work !

 

Funny : I took some time yesteday too, to put in place the MPaudio modules for full linear on mine (GS2024).

I have no patience to design a custom box... I'll post photo (different "style" ahead ! )

 

SoulAnalogue, what's its weight ?

Mine is 3kg (standard) => I took off the hood & the internal PS to make it lighter => but now it weights 6.2kg... strange... :-))))

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On 11/28/2020 at 11:16 AM, Soul Analogue said:

Finally I have tamed this freaking tricky bastard with full linear psu and regulators to a smooth power on and working state

pictures worth more than a thousand words

AB7E388D-FFA1-4083-8BC4-A9CC6F5A2707.thumb.jpeg.4c6adba3892867e293fecd68aaa1eb56.jpeg

Hi SoulAnalogue,

what's the job of the 2 wires that slide below the heat sink (on left side) ?

Is it a specific external PS for the clock ?

 

I didn't think about this mod... but pretty smart.

How SQ improved thanks to this PS on clock ?

Rgds

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

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Hi,

so, FIY, my lovely Buffalo in photo above is out of the hifi setup, all dismantled, back to its box by tomorrow morning :-)

 

Reason is : I ran a test this eve, after burning the Mpaudio ALS (the one to power the 1VDC). The rest (ALD module & Buffalo were burnt for a long time).

Test result = my "new" setup based on USB optical cable+Singxer SU-1 beats this Buffalo (with triple LPS). See signature vs current setup & this thread regarding the USB optical cable => https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/60825-usb-optical-cable-stunning-if-powered-implemented-correctly/#comments

 

 

 

To be clear, I use a digital amp, a rather good one : Classé 2200i.

This amp has a built-in digital interface, for USB / network etc...

So, when I use the Buffalo, I have this setup :

server on PC (Minimserver with embedded convolution at 1e6taps) =>

=> FMC (fiber converter)

=> fiber to switch TP-Link SG5412F (this switch has only SFP ports & is modifed with : LPS on 3.3V & 1.8VDC, and SMPS on 1VDC)

=> fiber to Buffalo

=> I enter the Buff thru a SPF port

=> I get out of the Buff thru RJ45

=> to the RJ45 input of the Classé

FIY : the TP-link switch is the "core" of the optical network, all SPFs & fibers are single-mode.

 

The test was Buff vs :

basic flac file on PC => played by MP-HC => convolution at 16e3taps thru EqualizerAPO => 

=> Corning 3.Optical (MPaudio 5VDC PS <= key is there : very good current !!!)

=> Singxer SU-1 (modded)

=> coax output to Classé

 

So, test regarding SQ between these 2 channels :

1. vs 3D depth / with scene : quite equal

2. vs crosstalk & stage precision : better thru Corning-SU1 ; Buff seems to be "confused" in comparison (espacially vs stage precision)

3. ... the big diff in favour of Corning-SU1 is : analogue sound. It's "fluid", pleasant to hear (no complaint from my tricky hears!), sounds "natural". In comparison, the Buff sounds "digital".

 

The Buff, with 3ple LPS is very very good in his own. This mod woths it. No complaint about the Buff.

By the other setup is nicier to listen.

 

Then, I could go futher with the Buff :

- external clock (although the 3ple LPS helps a lot)

- not to use the internal network interface of the Classé but add a Ered-dock to enter the amp thru spdif

2 options that are too expensive vs the potential improvement (just a guess of course) => reason why I stop there my funny experience with e Buffalo & will try to improve a bit my setup based on the "crasy" USB optical cable.

 

The overall reason I'l go further with Corning-SU1 is that the setup ergonomics is so cool... No complaint vs SQ & cool/easy/no buggy setup : what else... :-)

Rgds

 

PS : thanks to Micheal (MPaudio) to have created these tiny/fancy/smart modules. Because although they are top-notch, when you change your setup you can recycle them thanks to the tiny trimmer !  :-)

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

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Hi SoulAnalogue,

"split the rails" ?

no...

what did you see ?

I splitted no rails.

In the Buffalo tweak : 1 transfo > 1 AC/DC converter, per each voltage (1 - 1.5 - 3.3)

Tweaks vs transfo & AC/DC converter on the Corning & SU-1 are dedicated to. Thus no "split"

Rgds

2.1 basic stuff => 2 mains are Dynaudio Core59 + sub Dynaudio 18s

Actives / digital AES in / active correction on PC side

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