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Article: What is Accurate Sound?


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1 hour ago, Quad 405 said:

I'd like to give a shout out for Mitch's Accurate Sound Calibration service and his book.  My Kii Threes are sounding even better after Mitch created the filters. for Roon. Thanks for another great article!


Nice. I taught only HAF offered such service. I wanted actually to ask him (Mitch) how good it is, but I guess that may be hard to answer now 😀
 

I assume Mitch’s service using Audiolence ?


 

 

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EDIT:

I just realized that Mitch is some sort of partner with HAF, and even use their Room Shaper SW. 

 

If Hope this mean files returned from Mitch also include the Room Shaper correction. That would then mean it’s not so important to have this SW converted into something HQPlayer or Roon server (meaning NUC, NAS, SonicOrbiter) can use.

 

 

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13 hours ago, mitchco said:

Hi @R1200CL

 

Here is my review of Thierry's Room Shaper SW. Note Thierry's RS is based on events detection and modifications of only some portions of the input signal. It requires a VST plugin to operate.

 

Re: Audiolense XO - this version has the time domain correction capabilities which I recommend.

 

I use commercial DSP software like Acourate, Audiolense, and Dirac designed for loudspeaker and room correction.

 

Kind regards,

Mitch


I’m trying to understand if your service includes the use of DSP produced by Rom Shaper, or if one “must” add this in addition to files received back from you.
 

I think I understand your very nice review of Rom Shaper, that Room Shaper is something that’s added to Audiolence/Acourate DSP result.
 

I’m asking all this, cause both your and HAF services produce an outcome, that’s is very easy to apply to Roon or HQPlayer. No extra computer needed. Present, not so with Room Shaper. (And Dirac). 
 

Not sure if you’re the right person to ask, but if your answer is that end user have to purchase Room Shaper in addition, why is it not possible to mix to DSP processes in one one process, (zip-file). After all it’s only bits 😀

 

Another way of looking at DSP in general, is that it seems all these top 3 products, can be further developed in order to achieve what Room Shaper does.

I assume nothing forces us (the developer) to use technology like VST plugin to achieve this.

 

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7 hours ago, ALLDIGITAL said:

2. New amplifier with room correction in the amplifier. (Lyngdorf TDAI with Room Perfect)


Never purchase any hardware that includes DSP. It will be outdated within 12 to 24 months.

Look what happened to super expensive surround processor like Lexicon, Theta Casablanca, and others.

As far as I know, none of these products offer SW upgrade. 


I take this further, and say the same apply to a DAC.

 

It’s my understanding from the article or links (which include evaluation of Lyngdorf DSP), that several DSP SW doesn’t do what they’re supposed to do, or do it poorly. Some even makes tings worse. 
 

Peter Lyngdorf said:

“We spend between 8 and 9 million dollars to optimize the technology of RoomPerfect. One of the things we developed is a completely new measurement technology that has never been used before. For instance, we are complete immuun to noise in the measurements. 

 

RomPerfect may be a very good product, but you may check how good is his track of upgrad is on discontinued products. Since he is in control of both HW and SW, maybe it’s a good way to go. 

 

Maybe his partner Bruno Putzeys is using RoomPerfect technology in Kii ?

 

Maybe if you email Sean that did the evaluation, he will point you in some direction 😀

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26 minutes ago, firedog said:

I wouldn't put much stock in anything it says about a specific RC product, as they have all undergone multiple changes since then.


And that’s why never purchase HW that can’t or will not support SW upgrades 😀

(And that probably also includes DAC’s, depending what you expect your DAC to do). 
 

Principle is that any sort of DSP should be kept away from audio manufacturers.

 

Probably going a bit OT now....

 

 

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I think I just have to accept the fact that I’m into a mission impossible here 😀

And above my technical knowledge and understanding. 

 

Rom Shaper and what it does, can’t be converted to a convolver, which is the only “language“ in use for DSP, Roon accepts. 
 


As also Mitch wrote in his Room Sharper rewiew:

Room Shaper’s algorithm is different than DRC as it targets low frequency decay times that are longer than others. By using time domain correction, shortening the long decay frequencies to be the same as adjacent frequencies results in an even decay time over frequency in the low end. Much like changing the shape of ones room to a preferred room ratio. Room Shaper also assists in taking out the “boxy” sound of a room up to 600 Hz. What does “boxy” sound like? You will be able to hear it on the recording I made later in the review.

 

It should be noted that Room Shaper does not produce a digital FIR filter like DRC products where filtering is a linear transformation applied continuously to the whole signal. Room Shaper is based on events detection and modifications of only some portions of the input signal.

 

Room Shaper can complement any DRC product as it is targeting a different issue (i.e. reducing low frequency decay time) than DRC addresses (i.e. frequency and time domain correction)

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10 hours ago, Nickolay_V said:

Unfortunately, such  design of the acoustic system can not be sufficiently phase-linear and can not meet the CBT (Constant Beamwidh Transducer) criterion


Can you enlighten us a bit more please. I did several search and to me it seems more the opposite .

Several links can be found here: http://www.audioartistry.com/index.htm

More about CBT and here

It is also my understanding CBT more applies above frequencies 3 to 400 Hz, where RC is more effective in the lower range. 
 

Somehow it seems engineers with sonar background is good FIR designers 😀

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1 hour ago, skatbelt said:

 

To do this with monitors not playing full range you need XO-controlled separate outputs. Curious on how @mitchco achieves this.

 

Your Lygdorf has built in filters that removes signal under or over a crossover frequency you choose either on the digital or analog output. Lyndorf uses Butterworth and Linkwitz Riley. It is my understanding you need to apply these filters and XO before you do the room measurements, and then apply DSP. Agree ?
 

I suppose you could test out applying RC to Roon vs using the built in system. Or just use REW and measure how well RoomPerfect has been doing. 

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32 minutes ago, mitchco said:

The h/w solutions are not using as sophisticated analysis and design DSP software and are technically limited by the DSP chips aboard with how much filtering can be accomplished.


Does this means that Dirac as an example that is licensed to a HW manufacturer, may not perform as well as Dirac done before entering the DAC ? (Given same revision/version of SW). 

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