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Article: What is Accurate Sound?


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On 7/15/2020 at 4:10 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

I’m a huge fan of separating DSP from hardware like an amp. It gives you greater flexibility. I use convolution filters in Roon all the time. The great thing is they can be enabled/disabled with the tap of a finger and you don’t have expensive hardware designed to use DSP. 
 

 

 

I agree with you in the case of a 2.0 setup but if one - like me - wants to perfectly integrate monitor speakers with one or two subwoofers the Lyngdorf approach is hard to beat. Besides its powerful DRC/DSP (Roomperfect) it excels in integrating subwoofers with its build in (all digital) cross-over functionality that has simply all the flexibility that one could wish for. I for example like to not use monitor speakers full range and have a steep XO filter around 60 Hz. To let monitor speakers and subwoofers do what they do best. This approach also distresses the amplifier.

 

It is a challenge though to achieve optimal results. This is because Roomperfect itself is not able to determine the latency / distance / timing compensation needs for subwoofers. Lyngdorf recommends a rough distance measuring method but to achieve the best results, REW measurements are necessary. Fortunately there is a lot of material available online on how to do this.

 

Another advantage of hardware based DSP is that room correction works for all sources, so not only Roon.

 

A remark for @ALLDIGITAL. Lyngdorf is not the only player in the field. These other parties come to mind: Trinnov, Illusonic, DSPeaker and of course miniDSP/Dirac for smaller wallets.

Streamer dCS Network Bridge DAC Chord DAVE Amplifier / DRC Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Speakers Lindemann BL-10 | JL audio E-sub e110 Head-fi and reference Bakoon HPA-21 | Audeze LCD-3 (f) Power and isolation Dedicated power line | Xentek extreme isolation transformer (1KVA, balanced) | Uptone Audio EtherREGEN + Ferrum Hypsos | Sonore OpticalModule + Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2 | Jensen CI-1RR Cables Jorma Digital XLR (digital), Grimm Audio SQM RCA (analog), Kimber 8TC + WBT (speakers), custom star-quad with Oyaide connectors (AC), Ferrum (DC) and Ghent (ethernet) Software dCS Mosaic | Tidal | Qobuz

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9 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

With respect to using subwoofers, I believe @mitchco uses them and the digital crossover and has achieved nearly perfect results. It’s all available in Audiolense. 

 

To do this with monitors not playing full range you need XO-controlled separate outputs. Curious on how @mitchco achieves this.

Streamer dCS Network Bridge DAC Chord DAVE Amplifier / DRC Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Speakers Lindemann BL-10 | JL audio E-sub e110 Head-fi and reference Bakoon HPA-21 | Audeze LCD-3 (f) Power and isolation Dedicated power line | Xentek extreme isolation transformer (1KVA, balanced) | Uptone Audio EtherREGEN + Ferrum Hypsos | Sonore OpticalModule + Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2 | Jensen CI-1RR Cables Jorma Digital XLR (digital), Grimm Audio SQM RCA (analog), Kimber 8TC + WBT (speakers), custom star-quad with Oyaide connectors (AC), Ferrum (DC) and Ghent (ethernet) Software dCS Mosaic | Tidal | Qobuz

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/18/2020 at 7:47 PM, mitchco said:

 

Hi @skatbelt Both Acourate and Audiolense DSP provide sophisticated digital XO capabilities. One can choose the type of digital XO, slopes and number of XO points. Here is an article on Acourate for a triamp system and here is another article on Audiolense that  integrates and time aligns dual subwoofers with stereo mains (which also happens to be biamped). Since the latter article, I upgraded to dual Rythmik F18 subs crossed at 45 Hz with a steep digital XO, as you can see in the Audiolense article. Further, these XO's sum perfectly in the frequency and time domains. You can see the frequency and time domain response of my upgraded system here. The time alignment of subs with the mains are virtually prefect.

 

In my stereo triamp system including dual subs, I use 6 DAC channels with 6 amps that connect directly to each speaker driver. It means I have full independent control over the frequency and timing response of each driver. Note one can also implement a full MCH surround system this way as well. Folks are using 8 or 16 channel DAC's for this scenario and decode using JRiver Media Center for to watch/listen to 5.1 movies for example.

 

The digital XO, driver time alignment, driver linearization, room correction with amplitude and excessphase correction, are implemented in a linear (or minimum) phase digital FIR filter that is hosted in a software convolution engine. There are many convolvers that can host these FIR filters on Windows, Mac, and Linux. Note there are system wide convolvers that take any source input to the computer and apply the filters. Or by using loopback, (like VB-Cable on Windows or Rogue Ameoba on Mac) one can also feed the convolvers from any audio source on the computer.

 

The major advantage of this DSP software over any h/w solution, as alluded to in post 35, is that the resolution, accuracy and precision of the digital XO, time alignment, driver linearization, and room correction capabilities, far exceeds any h/w solution. The h/w solutions are not using as sophisticated analysis and design DSP software and are technically limited by the DSP chips aboard with how much filtering can be accomplished. As mentioned in post 35, most h/w DSP is limited to 2048 taps, including Lyngdorf Room Perfect. Whereas in software we can implement 65,536 or even 131,072 taps. It makes a huge difference in the resolution, accuracy, and precision of the low frequency room correction as the lower in frequency you go, the more taps are required, especially if you are integrating subs into your system.

 

Well, I guess I should buy a second DAVE then... 🤪

Streamer dCS Network Bridge DAC Chord DAVE Amplifier / DRC Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Speakers Lindemann BL-10 | JL audio E-sub e110 Head-fi and reference Bakoon HPA-21 | Audeze LCD-3 (f) Power and isolation Dedicated power line | Xentek extreme isolation transformer (1KVA, balanced) | Uptone Audio EtherREGEN + Ferrum Hypsos | Sonore OpticalModule + Uptone Audio UltraCap LPS-1.2 | Jensen CI-1RR Cables Jorma Digital XLR (digital), Grimm Audio SQM RCA (analog), Kimber 8TC + WBT (speakers), custom star-quad with Oyaide connectors (AC), Ferrum (DC) and Ghent (ethernet) Software dCS Mosaic | Tidal | Qobuz

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