Configurations - Contentment or Confusion ?

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

This is not an indictment of any particular product or practice. 

 

Many years ago when I first got JRiverMC there was a sharp learning curve. For me, and despite contrary opinions, it was not a 'work well out of the box' kinda thing and the females in my household told me so when I installed it on the home theatre ! It is highly configurable and with that comes choices and at times WTF is going on moments,... and many hours buried in forum posts. That said, I love JRMC.

 

I would like to try HQP but every time I think about it, I sigh involuntarily. All those possible configurations, filters , modulators, endless forum posts to read, choices ! Hell, even a USB cable like Lush2 can apparently have 10,000 configurable options !!

 

Like tweaking hardware ad infinitum, is this just another rabbit hole? I would never open up my Gryphon amplifier and start 'fiddling'. I turn it on, it works, it works awesomely. Is there a place for products that "just work", just a few options to 'set and forget' . Do all these configurations just tinker at the edges, make things a bit different not better or even, are they better left alone? Are you better off just buying a better product that just gets it right - or is getting it right part of the journey, a completely individualized experience ?

[yamamoto2002]

Jeremy Clarkson explain it using British amplifier and Japanese amplifier 😁

 

 

IMO app default setting should be reasonably good

[GregWormald]

It really depends on whether you want 'audio as a hobby' (adjust, fiddle, compare) or just want to 'enjoy the music' (set up reasonably quickly—once, play music).

 

There is no absolute best.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

6 hours ago, GregWormald said:

It really depends on whether you want 'audio as a hobby' (adjust, fiddle, compare) or just want to 'enjoy the music' (set up reasonably quickly—once, play music).

 

There is no absolute best.

 

I guess that's about the crux of it. In the 'old days' it was physical hardware we tinkered with. I just got to thinking that software may have become the new "upgrade-itis" , and the gift that just keeps giving with endless configurations.

[One and a half]

I have licenses for JRMC, HQPlayer, Audirvana+, Fidelizer Pro and Roon. Also ancient Amarra when it worked. None are what I would describe as a go to player.

 

JRMC has a large learning curve, for the moment, I use JRMC to find music and to audit the library for corrupt files like images and metadata that goes astray. It's search engine is vastly superior to Roon, so difficult searches I find in JRMC and play in Roon.

 

HQPlayer is a fiddler's dream. It's upsampling capabilities are technically possible but sound artificial, same with Roon. Hardware upscaling in DACs  eg upscale anything to  DSD are very good, e.g. Playback Designs. HQplayer has so many filters, some work with some music and are disaster with others, I could not be bothered with setting filters for different music. It cannot send data over the network directly to a Lumin, so it's no use to me any more.

 

Roon playback is very stable, but the much touted metadata handling is best amateurish, contained within a huge database that is data hungry, often misses vital info. For example find all music by John Lennon and Paul McCartney. Sadly, a lot of metadata has Lennon-McCartney, Lennon&McCartney,   Lennon & McCartney,  and various combos of same, so Roon will not list all compositions, but gives you the work to rationalise these compositions.... Artists browser is 75% grey tiles, and the other 25% are modern photographs from artists, which over time, I don't recognise. Anyway these are specifics and there are quite a lot of other dramas, but are annoying and detract what you paid for as incomplete.

 

I like Audirvana for the best SQ, but its operations with the Lumin U1 and DAC have quirks, which could be ironed out in in time.

 

I think better SQ gains are with hardware, software just creates annoyance and usability issues which cloud the SQ enjoyment. Sometimes file management is best left to tools like Windows (File) Explorer or Finder (which can't).

 

[Teresa]

On 7/4/2020 at 11:24 PM, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

...Many years ago when I first got JRiverMC there was a sharp learning curve. For me, and despite contrary opinions, it was not a 'work well out of the box' kinda thing and the females in my household told me so when I installed it on the home theatre ! It is highly configurable and with that comes choices and at times WTF is going on moments,... and many hours buried in forum posts...

 

...Is there a place for products that "just work", just a few options to 'set and forget'..

 

I currently use the easiest computer music software I've ever tried: the TEAC HR Audio Player. I just drop newly downloaded PCM or DSD files into the player and name the Playlist. That's it.

 

I prefer products that just work and that I like how my music sounds through it. I leave the tinkering to the audio engineers, they get paid for it and I don't.  😊  I had to set up my Blu-ray / SACD universal player when I first got it, things such as SACD layer priority, and Stereo priority. Now I just play music.

 

8 hours ago, GregWormald said:

It really depends on whether you want 'audio as a hobby' (adjust, fiddle, compare) or just want to 'enjoy the music' (set up reasonably quickly—once, play music).

 

There is no absolute best.

 

I like the enjoy the music option best. 😊

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

33 minutes ago, One and a half said:

I have licenses for JRMC, HQPlayer, Audirvana+, Fidelizer Pro and Roon. Also ancient Amarra when it worked. None are what I would describe as a go to player.

 

JRMC has a large learning curve, for the moment, I use JRMC to find music and to audit the library for corrupt files like images and metadata that goes astray. It's search engine is vastly superior to Roon, so difficult searches I find in JRMC and play in Roon.

 

HQPlayer is a fiddler's dream. It's upsampling capabilities are technically possible but sound artificial, same with Roon. Hardware upscaling in DACs  eg upscale anything to  DSD are very good, e.g. Playback Designs. HQplayer has so many filters, some work with some music and are disaster with others, I could not be bothered with setting filters for different music. It cannot send data over the network directly to a Lumin, so it's no use to me any more.

 

Roon playback is very stable, but the much touted metadata handling is best amateurish, contained within a huge database that is data hungry, often misses vital info. For example find all music by John Lennon and Paul McCartney. Sadly, a lot of metadata has Lennon-McCartney, Lennon&McCartney,   Lennon & McCartney,  and various combos of same, so Roon will not list all compositions, but gives you the work to rationalise these compositions.... Artists browser is 75% grey tiles, and the other 25% are modern photographs from artists, which over time, I don't recognise. Anyway these are specifics and there are quite a lot of other dramas, but are annoying and detract what you paid for as incomplete.

 

I like Audirvana for the best SQ, but its operations with the Lumin U1 and DAC have quirks, which could be ironed out in in time.

 

I think better SQ gains are with hardware, software just creates annoyance and usability issues which cloud the SQ enjoyment. Sometimes file management is best left to tools like Windows (File) Explorer or Finder (which can't).

 

Hi Gary, thanks for some *very* interesting insights.

 

I dare say your views on software vs hardware upsampling would be out of step with many here but  also echoes my limited experience. I have not tried HQP so I cannot say one way or another. I have tried various DSP in JRMC and I always go back to listening without. You are right about the "artificial" SQ. The upsampling on my DAC OTOH does sound good. Now I have no idea why this should be as I suppose someone will point out that the DAC is just using internal software to upsample, and that software is better utilized in a powerful computer. My only inkling would be it must have something to do with implementation and compatibility as chosen by the DAC designers.Certainly the biggest SQ improvements have come from hardware upgrades

 

I do like JRMC. It required a lot of initial learning but I used to boast that if you got deep into its code it could make you breakfast in the mornings.😄 My artists view has for example has all the cover songs of that artist listed alongside. There are many little such things I cannot remember how I achieved many years ago, like digging into the windows registry to place thumbnails at a different location, but I did keep notes. I would not like to start my Library from scratch.

[firedog]

5 hours ago, One and a half said:

Hardware upscaling in DACs  eg upscale anything to  DSD are very good, e.g. Playback Designs

Playback Designs is among a small minority that uses proprietary software in an FPGA to do the upsampling and conversion to DSD/analog. It doesn't use a DAC "chip" - unlike about 99% of DACs. So while you could technically say it is doing HW upsampling, it's very different from what most DACs do. It certainly could be called the exception, not the rule. The DACs that do this also tend to be quite expensive, and HQP is a cheaper (in many cases) and some would say, superior alternative. Certainly if you have a PD DAC there wouldn't be much reason to use HQP. It would sort of be defeating the purpose of the DAC design.
 

But that's the reason something like HQP exists - to do a better job inside the computer than what most DACs  with standard DAC chips can do. 

I don't think HQP is that complicated. Yes, there's a learning curve. But you play with the 'families" of conversion filters at first and find one or two you prefer. Set and forget. IMO, no big reason to set a different filter for each kind of music. Just as most people don't do that with a DAC. 

 

While Roon is far from perfect, I enjoy the experience, metadata, and links. I also use the DSP features and find they improve SQ. IME, properly done room correction is a must to really hear what a system is capable of and Roon makes it easy to implement. I enjoy the very good and don't worry about it being perfect SW. There is no "perfect" software. Roon is probably the closest one. 

[Summit]

I have JRMC, JPLAY (not Femto), HQPlayer and Roon. I prefer Roon with no upsampling and no DSP.

[Allan F]

I use HQPlayer upsampling everything to DSD512 on my T+A DAC8 DSD in my main system and wouldn't change a thing. I have an older version of JRMC but use it primarily for editing metadata, and occasionally for playback on my desktop PC. On my system at least, I would have to disagree with the suggestion that HQP sounds artificial. IMO, quite the opposite is true.

 

I agree with @firedog that HQP is not that complicated. After becoming familiar with its setup and finding one's preferences, I also find that it is a matter of set it and forget it. I can't see the justification for the cost of Roon when Ales Prochazka's HQPDcontrol app provides me with both a simple and perfectly capable remote interface.

[One and a half]

On 7/7/2020 at 2:36 AM, Summit said:

I have JRMC, JPLAY (not Femto), HQPlayer and Roon. I prefer Roon with no upsampling and no DSP.

For the last month, Roon was set to upsample anything to DSD128, essentially so the DAC wouldn't have to think much about switching sample rates and also how it sounds. When switching DSD upsampling off after the month on, the SQ felt at home again, some details I thought were not as clear as without any DSP. Roon just plays the files as is.