Roon and VST (for Dirac)

[michael123]

Hello

 

What is the best workaround to use Dirac with Roon? 

 

I though of using JRiver WDM as the easiest one, but it seems to be unstable

 

Are are you using? 

[Kal Rubinson]

JRiver instead of Roon.

[michael123]

 

Honestly, I am asking for a friend. He, like many others switches around 3 years ago to Roon+Tidal. I am still with JRiver, although may switch to Roon for music as well. 

 

There is a document Flavio made available for this using virtual cable, are there simpler alternatives? 

 

 

 

[michael123]

I followed the document, but there is no sound

http://diracdocs.com/Windows-Using_Dirac_plugins_with_players_not_supporting_plugins.pdf

 

VB Cable gets the sound, but vsthost does not push it down to the chain.

[alandbush]

1 hour ago, michael123 said:

I followed the document, but there is no sound

http://diracdocs.com/Windows-Using_Dirac_plugins_with_players_not_supporting_plugins.pdf

 

VB Cable gets the sound, but vsthost does not push it down to the chain.

Those instructions do not explain how to chain the VSTHost components.  Nor does it mention the checking of the input and output channels via the Engine option.

 

The defaults often work but as you have issues I would suggest you check them out.

 

If you are unfamiliar with VSTHost, each component contains a small volume display which is only active when audio is received by that component.  This may help you determine where the issue lies.

[R1200CL]

16 hours ago, michael123 said:

What is the best workaround to use Dirac with Roon? 

How about using HAF, and just use the options already available in Roon (or HQPlayer).

Or did you already purchase Dirac ?
 

There is more information about HAF in the Roon forum.

[michael123]

Yep, I have Dirac for few years and like the sound, especially of the most recent builds

Also, I like JRiver sound engine.

 

There are rumors that Roon will eventually support Dirac as one of its plugins, that will be best.

 

Until then we use JRiver WDM sound driver, but it is quite buggy and unstable

 

 

[michael123]

On 7/3/2020 at 10:45 PM, Kal Rubinson said:

JRiver instead of Roon.

 

JRiver is unusable with large libraries.

This kind of interface was appropriate 20 years ago.

 

I enjoy Spotify more, even though it is merely mp3

I discover new albums, I learn and I enjoy,

Spotify's ability to build these playlists is genius.

 

With my JRiver I bound to 20 or so albums, as a result I listen less, as the hobby becomes boring.

How should I play? Random?

 

I have many audiophiles in my circle.. and all of them move to streaming, while most of them to Roon+Tidal

Is it a surprise for you?

 

For me the best is to have JRiver serving as a common playback engine with different front-ends - Spotify, Roon, etc.

 

 

 

 

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, michael123 said:

JRiver is unusable with large libraries.

This kind of interface was appropriate 20 years ago.

................................................................................

With my JRiver I bound to 20 or so albums, as a result I listen less, as the hobby becomes boring.

How should I play? Random?

There is no limitation on library size and the interface can be customized to your needs.  But I suppose that you know this and that you are making another point.  Can you be more explicit?

 

FWIW, my comment was intentionally glib.  Roon is a good product but not my preference.

[michael123]

Just now, Kal Rubinson said:

There is no limitation on library size and the interface can be customized to your needs.  But I suppose that you know this and that you are making another point.  Can you be more explicit?

 

FWIW, my comment was intentionally glib.  Roon is a good product but not my preference.

 

I had personally tested Roon, but until it supports Dirac I don't enable my subscription. 

 

However, due to my background, I help my friends, and those have Roon, so I solve my problems and theirs as one. 

 

I myself use JRiver. 

The problem with JRiver that you need to know apriori what you're going to listen. 

 

I like the ability to build dynamic play lists based on my mood.. Like in Spotify. Listening to Willie Nelson, for example, will add Kris Kristofferson and Merle Haggard to my playlist. 

 

JRiver's UI is not an easy one. I see my friends forget all these options and sometimes even simpler playback scenarios. JRiver and Foobar are similar in this area. 

 

My current problem which I need to solve is using Dirac with Roon. 

 

 

 

[Kal Rubinson]

24 minutes ago, michael123 said:

I myself use JRiver. 

The problem with JRiver that you need to know apriori what you're going to listen. 

I usually do but sometimes (rarely) I use PlayDoctor.  

25 minutes ago, michael123 said:

I like the ability to build dynamic play lists based on my mood.. Like in Spotify. Listening to Willie Nelson, for example, will add Kris Kristofferson and Merle Haggard to my playlist.

I never use playlists (except for parties) since I rarely play individual songs and, if I do, it is usually just to play only that song.  

26 minutes ago, michael123 said:

JRiver's UI is not an easy one. I see my friends forget all these options and sometimes even simpler playback scenarios. JRiver and Foobar are similar in this area. 

??? EZ for me, I guess.  I have several custom views so that I can see my collection in the way I want at the time.  My interests are heavily in classical music and Roon can be magical for that.  I am impressed with its metadata but, for classical, it screws up much too often and, when it does, fixing the classification and metadata is nearly impossible.  JRiver just does what I tell it and its fixed.  

 

We have different user, clearly, but size of collection isn't an issue either way, imho.

[michael123]

@Kal Rubinson browsing interface JRiver has is irrelevant with big libraries, that's my point. Grouping by genre, albums, artists makes little sense when you have thousands records for each view. I used PlayDoctor, I think it does not use the mass knowledge, the big data, Spotify has. 

 

In any case, do you have a creative idea to use Dirac inside Roon DSP? 

 

[Kal Rubinson]

3 hours ago, michael123 said:

browsing interface JRiver has is irrelevant with big libraries, that's my point. Grouping by genre, albums, artists makes little sense when you have thousands records for each view

That is not so with the custom views and a few custom tags.  And, yes, I have thousands to deal with, too. 

 

Roon simply fails, too often, to recognize complete classical works which consist of multiple movements/parts and its workarounds for correcting it are tedious, to be kind. As I said, I rarely use PlayDoctor because it is useful only for non-classical music since it, like most such programs, is based on tracks.  It was just suggestion but, obviously, from different perspective..

3 hours ago, michael123 said:

In any case, do you have a creative idea to use Dirac inside Roon DSP? 

Nope. I understand that others have found ways, including feeding Roon's output through JRMC, but they are complex kludges, imho. At this time, I have a better alternative. 😎  

[shum3s]

10 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

That is not so with the custom views and a few custom tags.  And, yes, I have thousands to deal with, too. 

 

Roon simply fails, too often, to recognize complete classical works which consist of multiple movements/parts and its workarounds for correcting it are tedious, to be kind. As I said, I rarely use PlayDoctor because it is useful only for non-classical music since it, like most such programs, is based on tracks.  It was just suggestion but, obviously, from different perspective..

Nope. I understand that others have found ways, including feeding Roon's output through JRMC, but they are complex kludges, imho. At this time, I have a better alternative. 😎  

.....and that better alternative is.....?

[jrobbins50]

@Kal Rubinson will provide his answer, but I am really enjoying convolution filters generated by Audiolense. They work in Roon, JRiver and HQ Player. JCR 

[Kal Rubinson]

8 hours ago, shum3s said:

.....and that better alternative is.....?

 

personal.  It' seems to me that @michael123 has made his choice based on his needs and preferences while my choice is based on mine.

There are more options than just Roon and Jriver out there, so if these don't suit, you should experiment.

[Kal Rubinson]

7 hours ago, jrobbins50 said:

@Kal Rubinson will provide his answer, but I am really enjoying convolution filters generated by Audiolense. They work in Roon, JRiver and HQ Player. JCR 

OK.  I have not yet tried Audiolense although I want to and have downloaded it.  Too many disruptions in my system of late have gotten in the way.

 

 

[firedog]

20 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Roon simply fails, too often, to recognize complete classical works which consist of multiple movements/parts and its workarounds for correcting it are tedious, to be kind.

 

This is true. But I like Roon enough that I grit my teeth and change the tags so that it's fixed. But you are right it is quite time consuming. They really do need to work on that part of it. I realize it's a difficult task, but it can be done. 

1 hour ago, Kal Rubinson said:

OK.  I have not yet tried Audiolense although I want to and have downloaded it.  Too many disruptions in my system of late have gotten in the way.

 

 

I bought it and like it a lot. If you have a little previous knowledge of measurement and DRC (as you obviously do) it's quite easy to implement. I mainly wanted it to eliminate a room node, and it did a brilliant job. Big improvement in sound. I also used the ability to make a correction curve to my tastes, and adjusted the playback for some hearing issues. That also worked really well. 

[michael123]

You are joking Kal knows I think every existing system out there from Audyssey to Trinnov

 

 

[jrobbins50]

6 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

OK.  I have not yet tried Audiolense although I want to and have downloaded it.  Too many disruptions in my system of late have gotten in the way.

 

 

Yes, such is your life as a reviewer, with so many new toys flying at you all of the time. I was surprised that a subwoofer was your entry into the latest Stereophile instead of the Okto DAC. JCR 

[Kal Rubinson]

There are logistical issues that impact the situation so it is rarely first come, first served.  The OKTO's time will come.  Besides, Pavel can barely keep up with orders anyway.

[jrobbins50]

12 hours ago, firedog said:

I also used the ability to make a correction curve to my tastes, and adjusted the playback for some hearing issues. That also worked really well. 

@firedog, with my poor hearing, I should have thought of creating a house curve just for my listening in Audiolense to compensate in part, but never have. How did you decide on its design? JCR 

[firedog]

6 minutes ago, jrobbins50 said:

@firedog, with my poor hearing, I should have thought of creating a house curve just for my listening in Audiolense to compensate in part, but never have. How did you decide on its design? JCR 

Part of it was based on a hearing test showing lessened ability to hear some frequencies. I also, paradoxically, find that I seem to be more sensitive to high frequencies even though I can't hear the highest ones. So I actually reduced the higher ones a bit. The (unproven) theory is that b/c I can't hear the some of the high frequency harmonics, it makes the highs I can hear sound more harsh. 

I basically played a bit till I found what worked. It wasn't hard. 

[firedog]

41 minutes ago, firedog said:

Part of it was based on a hearing test showing lessened ability to hear some frequencies. I also, paradoxically, find that I seem to be more sensitive to high frequencies even though I can't hear the highest ones. So I actually reduced the higher ones a bit. The (unproven) theory is that b/c I can't hear the some of the high frequency harmonics, it makes the highs I can hear sound more harsh. 

I basically played a bit till I found what worked. It wasn't hard. 

To be more accurate, I used Roon DSP to slightly boost some frequncies in the 2000hz -4000hz range based on a hearing test. I used the correction curve to make a slight downward slope from 4000hz - 20000hz. Subjectively, I hear the same high frequencies as before, but it sounds better to me this way. I could have done all that with the correction curve, but I prefer to do the DRC and then add in the boost where it made sense for me. I think that gives a better result. Roon makes it very easy to setup. 

[jrobbins50]

@firedog, I have taken your idea to a higher level.  There's a recent study of the Etymotic Home Hearing Test kit (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6710072/) that indicates the HHT is essentially as accurate as an in-person test by an audiologist.  Since it's been a few years since my last test, and I know my hearing hasn't improved over that time period, I've ordered up the kit (https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/home-hearing-test/home-hearing-test.html) with the intention of using its results to shape a house curve in Audiolense (and I'll try as you did just doing some EQ boosting in Roon) specific for my hearing.  A very good idea inspired by your note.  Thanks.  JCR