Will tube preamp add?

[fas42]

4 hours ago, bluesman said:

This is a perfect example of the educational value of just listening.  Dollars to donuts, what you're describing is more the result of the way the recording was made than how it's played back.  Virtually all "electric" music (pop, rock, commercial et al - and even a lot of jazz) is recorded as individual parts or small units, by acoustically isolating the players and their mics and/or having them lay down their parts individually while listening to backing or other timing tracks.  These are then assembled into a simulation of ensemble performance by engineers and producers in post-production. 

 

There is another level of quality in the playback which is possible; and which is closer to hearing "everything on the recording" - and here, the construction of studio manipulated, individually recorded parts is rendered absolutely transparently; the presentation is intensely layered, but this is now expressed in terms of soundstages overlaying each other - the ambience and sense of the 'location' of each musical part separates out; exists in a different space.

 

This may sound as if it would unpleasant to listen to, but in fact the opposite is true; the mind is delighted and intrigued by hearing this 'stacking' of acoustic spaces, and has no problem focusing on each in turn. Note, this can only occur when the system playback is extremely accurate - any loss of accuracy causes this key information to be blurred, and then the studio post-production efforts will indeed sound "worse" than minimalistic recordings.

[fas42]

8 minutes ago, PeterG said:

 

First, I concur with the earlier recommendation on a subwoofer.  The KEF's are fine speakers, but like all monitors, they will not rock without a sub--as you've experienced.  A REL T5 would fit your punch above weight philosophy for about $600.  You'll be stunned by the improvement, not just at the low end, but at the heft provided to all instruments.  With a good well integrated sub, you will not hear the difference as much as feel it.

 

Small speakers, monitors, typically are not stabilised enough in their location for decent heft to be conveyed - what I mean by this is that one adds effective mass to the cabinet of them, so that their character then becomes that of a speaker of an order or two greater in weight. If done well, the transformation can quite astounding, and can easily make huge speakers sound quite weedy in comparison  ... something to consider ...

[fas42]

3 hours ago, PeterG said:

 

I think you missed one of the key points in my post, and another--we are not advocating a sub for overpowering bass, but rather for the weight and feel they will give all of the instruments, this is an absolute must for rock.  You might read the REL website--their propaganda is correct.  Also, if you check my AS profile, you'll see that I share your affinity for both monitors and tubes.  I agree that 2 subs might be too much for a small room, and it definitely adds to the complexity.  But like Sam-I-Am, I only suggest you try it

 

Subs can do the job, but this is not guaranteed - a setup I visited that had everything done right as regards producing low distortion deep bass notes, using two massive sealed subwoofer setups, still failed to give good "weight and feel" to the bass lines in the music. I'm using some decent, bookshelf sized active speakers right now, and the sense of the bass in some tracks was quite overpowering - too much in fact; resolved by increasing the effective mass of the units. The same factor is at work in the comment about Quads sounding better with the bass removed - stabilsing their frames would have been another option for improving the sound.

[fas42]

20 minutes ago, 4est said:

I’m not sure what the first part of your response is supposed to mean, but no amount of frame stabilization is going to do what I am- not even close

 

Stabilising the cabinet of the speakers is a procedure I've been using ever since I took audio more seriously - in the early days I would visit showrooms of audio shops, where they had monster speakers, towering over me ... which produced lousy bass. The sound of poorly stabilised speakers I find very irritating - it's essential to get the frame or cabinet holding the drivers in position under control, I have always found.