Popular Post Ajax Posted July 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2020 3 hours ago, pkane2001 said: Sorry about the infinite loop, David. Unfortunately, recycled claims, just like those you dredge out in the quote above, are what keeps it going. Alex reacted badly to ASR measurements of his product(s), but provided nothing to refute them other than the "there are many happy customers evidence". In fact, his engineer eventually fixed the issue reported with the power supply that was causing the mains frequency to leak into the powered device. This was with a product designed to provide AC/DC conversion and a supposedly perfect DAC isolation, according to marketing and repeated claims. So was the measurement misleading or were the claims by the manufacturer? I know my answer. Alex knows it too, since his product now includes a fix for it, despite all the protests. Chris has been doing and saying many things about ASR and Amir specifically, but whenever I press for details, he just tells me to connect the dots myself. Not very convincing evidence there, either, I'm afraid. A manufacturer certainly doesn't want bad news to be published about their product. Neither does an audiophile who invested hard-earned cash into the product. Nor the owner of a web forum which is sponsored by these same manufacturers and audiophiles. That's understandable. But that's why measurements are important. Everyone has a bias and everyone has a hidden agenda. Measurements do not. I'll agree to drop it, but only if you do it, as well. Hi Paul, Boy, you sure are a sucker for punishment I have followed this thread with interest and despite the illogical, and at times personal attacks (on Amir), at no stage can I fault your demeanour. I really don't know how you do it. My experience has been that you will never convince any of these guys that they need measurements because they have the potential to undermine "their" hobby. Who wants to be told that they just spent a heap of doe on a piece of gear that doesn't do anything. Who wants to look like a fool? What confuses me is that Amir is being attacked for measuring outside the audio range, however, when he does and finds an anomaly at say very high frequencies or at very low noise levels he always states it is inconsequential as is outside our audio range and will therefore not affect our enjoyment of the sound. The fact is his equipment is refined enough to do so and he is simply exposing design/implementation weakness in equipment while at the same time applauding good engineering when he finds it. He always states when it is irrelevant. This puts to bed Alex (SandyK) constant babble about "you can't hear it because your equipment isn't good enough" Also measurements are how we learn. Why is this anomaly happening? Can we fix it? e.g. Amir's intermodulation distortion graph showing a hump in the Topping DAC but not in the Benchmark, although both use ESS chips. This resulted in Topping addressing and fixing the issue. I note that Archimago, who is well respected here for his work in debunking MQA (together with Chris & Mansr) has not joined the debate. He is another individual constantly asking for a more rational approach to audio, however, I believe he has learnt his lesson in that that you simply can't change people's belief when they are based on feelings and emotions rather than rational argument. e.g. he has chosen the Hypex NC250 MP as his reference amp, which he constructed as a DIY (it is available assembled from Audiophonics for around Euro 470). You may recall we had a gentleman known as GUTB debunking all Class D amps as rubbish. I called him out only to be told I was being "ridiculous". What's ridiculous is people spending a fortune on amps and power conditioners, special cables decrapifiers etc, when a very knowledgable and well respected audio expert only spends US$600 on his power amp. Engineering, whether civil, mechanical, electrical or audio is based on maths and physics and measurement. If you think I'm having a shot at everyone please know that I have also bought lots of gismos and swallowed all the BS. I certainly don't think I'm an expert, however, I do know how to put together a serious system for well under US$2k (thanks to the many excellent contributors to this site over the past 10 years). Chris wants to know what the "goal" is of measurements. IMO this should be our goal. To educate people outside our fraternity on how they can enjoy excellent sound for the minimum outlay. Hell - if you are starting out what's wrong with a Topping 50s + JBL 305 MkII + Sub (with built in cross over). The source can be an already owned computer with a Tidal subscription or you can stream from your phone with chrome cast audio .... US$700 max for seriously good sound. Good luck with your journey in helping these fellows understand what "bias" is all about and why "measuring" equipment is fundamental to the process of developing and improving any piece of equipment. I admire your tenacity. All the best Ajax PS ... you should be due for your second drink about now! kumakuma, pkane2001, Mayfair and 1 other 4 LOUNGE: Mac Mini - Audirvana - Devialet 200 - ATOHM GT1 Speakers OFFICE : Mac Mini - Audirvana - Benchmark DAC1HDR - ADAM A7 Active Monitors TRAVEL : MacBook Air - Dragonfly V1.2 DAC - Sennheiser HD 650 BEACH : iPhone 6 - HRT iStreamer DAC - Akimate Micro + powered speakers Link to comment
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