Misleading Measurements

[danadam]

14 hours ago, wbh said:

16 hours ago, JoshM said:

Threads get closed or individual users warned or banned for disagreeing with Amir all the time!

Yes, this happened to me. And I was never warned.

In case you don't realize that, the reason for you ban was not disagreement. Well, unless you mean disagreement about what is an acceptable behavior on a forum.

[danadam]

7 hours ago, 992Sam said:

Seems like anyone going on there trying to disagree finds himself banned at some point

Can you give a few examples?

[danadam]

10 minutes ago, 992Sam said:

no

I see. So we can't check if they "sticked their neck out" in a similar manner as wbh did. Ok. A bit sad to see such accusations without some more substance behind them.

[danadam]

34 minutes ago, 992Sam said:

freedom of expression is critical to having a healthy and vibrant online community.

Ah... so that's what your "slave shop factories" comment was. 🤦‍♂️

[danadam]

3 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

I listened to them and didn't hear any differences between them.

Same here.

[danadam]

16 hours ago, sandyk said:

What are you guys using, laptops, perhaps a stock standard Mac Mini  ?

rme adi-2 pro fs r and sennheiser hd650

16 hours ago, sandyk said:

Suck on this one replacing LF version.

Still the same.

16 hours ago, sandyk said:

If you can't hear the difference with this one compared with HF version, then you have MAJOR problems.

Yeah, sure 🙄

[danadam]

An interesting tidbit about max output, a note about increasing it from 1.4 V to 2.0 V in Hitachi DA-1000 player, dated March 1, 1983.

(source: https://www.audiosciencereview_CUTTHIS.com/forum/index.php?threads/sinad-measurements.4071/post-95590)

 

[danadam]

1 hour ago, March Audio said:

Just on point 1, its not quite correct, sorry :).  The waveform shape makes no difference as it is the peak voltage level that is 0dBFS.

Are you saying that @lucretius is not correct or that the AES17 standard is not correct? :-)

The standard clearly says:

Quote

6.3 Output amplitude at full scale

In systems where the input is accessible in the digital domain, the output amplitude at full scale shall be the
r.m.s. voltage that results from a sine wave whose positive peak value reaches the positive digital full scale
under normal settings of gain controls.

 

[danadam]

9 hours ago, March Audio said:

there are no domestic dacs that output at -10dBV.  Most are close to 2 v rms at 0dBFS. This is +6dBV. (RCA output)

My take on this: the -10 dBV is a line level, which is a different thing than max level. If wikipedia is to be believed, line level is:

Quote

A line level describes a line's nominal signal level ...

and following to nominal level:

Quote

The nominal level is the level that these devices were designed to operate at, for best dynamic range and adequate headroom.

[...] the headroom as the difference between nominal and maximum output.

If we assume a headroom of 16 dB, then -10 dBV line level (i.e. nominal level) + 16 dB headroom = +6 dBV = 2 V max level. So in my understanding domestic DACs have both -10 dBV line level and 2 V max level.

 

But to be clear, I'm not saying that they should be tested at -10 dBV instead of 2 V or that the music content never reaches near those 2 V :)