Tube Preamp Advice - Rogue, Schiit, and Vincent

[DancingSea]

Aloha,

 

I have a DirectStream Junior DAC and a PS Audio S300 power amp (dual mono, class A input, class D output), connected by balanced XLR. I’d like to add a sub $2000 tube preamp.  Balanced is preferred, but not a deal breaker.

 

Lots of reading has led me to 3 candidates:

 

1) Schiit Freya+  $899, 4 tubes (6SN7), balanced XLR.  Excellent value, lots of glowing YouTube reviews, just not sure about Schiit’s tube pedigree, and their main designer seems grumpy (haha).  Made in California.   https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-1

 

2) Rogue Audio RP-1, $1800.  2 tubes (12AU7/ ECC82), no XLR.  Has a good Stereophile review.  Rogue has a great tube pedigree, made in Pennsylvania .  Just not sure if it’s the Freya at twice the price?  And with only 2 tubes, am I getting short changed on tube-ness?  https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RARP1

 

3) Vincent Audio SA-32, $1200.  Audio Advisor product, no pro reviews that I could find.  4 tubes (6N16), balanced XLR.  I’m not a purist, and am drawn to the their tone controls, very rare these days, a tear came to my eye when I saw tone controls, took me back 😂.  German designed, made in China.    https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VISA32&variation=SIL

 

The $2500 Vincent Audio SA T7 has 12 very positive user reviews on Audio Advisor, but no pro reviews I could find.  No XLR.  I looked at it just to get some idea of where Vincent fits into our audiophile universe.  Upscale Audio sells Vincent as well.

 

Would appreciate advice, or alternatives.  Thanks.

 

[DancingSea]

5 hours ago, davide256 said:

I would consider the Freya to be a waste of money with your system

Thanks for feedback.  I’m curious, why would the Freya be a waste of money?

 

My goal is to bring tube coloration into the system.  Darko, FWIW, in his glowing review of the Freya+, says the tube mode does bring pleasing tube coloration, holographic with what he calls “tube vapor trails”. 
 

Also, how is the Linear Tube preamp powered?  On the photos of the rear, I don’t see a place for a power cord.  Can it be powered by an SBooster?

 

And does being single ended only present any meaningful disadvantage to balanced XLR?

 

It’s a very intriguing option.  Thanks. 

[DancingSea]

On 6/23/2020 at 7:24 PM, davide256 said:

As best I can tell from the Freya's description, it appears to be a hybrid tube pre with solid state elements. Which is going to dilute the whole

tube experience.

 

The main asset of a pure tube pre-amp is its distortion products are second order harmonics, so that the distortion is easy on the ear, not fatiguing

like the odd order distortion of solid state components.

 

The main disadvantage of many  tube pre-amps is being euphonic, they unnaturally accent harmonics in certain regions. Which means your music

starts to fall into like/dislike camps depending upon whether the accent is pleasing for that piece or strange. I much prefer having the tube pleasantness

without the euphonics, so that you don't find yourself ignoring good music disadvantaged by euphonic coloration. And I like solid state transient

response which is difficult to get from traditional tube designs but exemplary with the Berning RF amplification circuit design of the Microzotl 2.

This TAS review may be helpful.

 

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/david-berning-microzotl20-personal-amplifier/

 

The power input of the MZ2 is a 2.5mm DC jack input on the back. The stock SMPS is 3.3A, 12V. Note that you can also use the MZ2

as a 1w amplifier... but I don't recommend this until you have a good hefty LPS (>6A) for the PS.

 

XLR is a balanced cable and if you were spending more on a pre-amp you could get electronics good enough to gain an advantage, Under $2k

its going to be just a marketing feature to sway those who buy based on check sheets. At least thats what I ran into several years ago when shopping

tube gear

 

 

 

 

Thanks so much for the well written, clear and insightful reply.  It makes sense to me.  I’m in discussions now with Nicholas at Linear Tube Audio to purchase the MZ2.  The LTA LPS says it’s for devices requiring 12V and up to 3 amps.  Do I understand you correctly that such specs are ok for preamp use (my primary usage) but not enough to use as an amp?  My current speakers are not efficient enough for the MZ2, but one day I hope to try the Zu Dirty Weekend which LTA says will work.  I still can’t wrap my mind around 1 watt doing anything!?

[DancingSea]

8 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Nevermind, I was thinking of a different youtube link.

 

FWIW, I have read and watched perhaps every review in existence for the Freya+.  It’s universally praised and often phrased that it holds it’s own against any tube preamp under $5000, particularly if the tubes are upgraded.  Darko, New Record Day, and Thomas & Stereo have all done detailed YouTube reviews on the Freya+.  I do hold the whole audio industry review machine with a degree of skepticism, it’s hardly Consumer Reports.

 

The Linear Tube Audio line also gets universal high praise. 

[DancingSea]

9 hours ago, davide256 said:

I've used SoTM SPS500, HDPlex200W and lastly the Uptone Audio JS-2 to power the MZ2. The first 2 were improvements over a stock power supply but for use past 12 on the volume dial with speakers they weren't that clean, didn't provide enough volume powering inefficient Magnepan 1.7's. Using a JS2 I'm comfortably

powering the 1.7's now at about 2 on a volume dial which has a max volume position at 4 in a 12x12 room. It won't do for massive orchestra war horses or loud rock

but I'm biding my time, the 1 watt I get from it outperforms the amplifier sections I've had before for clarity, which were a 60 watt Bryston B60 integrated,

a 50 watt Prima Luna Premium integrated and a 100 watt musical concepts modded Hafler DH200.  Eventually I will shell out for something in the class of

a Pass XA25 but the space heater nature of class A in a 12x12 room has me looking for a cooler running but equal quality amplifier.

 

If planning to use just for preamp or headphones the LTA LPS should do just fine, the current draw is just not that high and the unit won't "run out of steam"

past 12 on the volume knob which is what I experienced with their SMPS

 

 

 

Do you use your MZ2 as a preamp?  The LTA website says the ZOTL technology, as an amp, because there’s no transformer, can make the sound appear to have less warmth, body and weight. I realize the rationale is that the haze from the transformer creates an impure type of warmth, body and weight.  But will adding the MZ2 as a preamp to my system make the sound more lean?

 

Is your MZ2 lacking warmth, body and weight compared to your old PrimaLuna and Conrad Johnson?  The less “warmth, body and weight” part makes me nervous 😬 

 

Thanks.

[DancingSea]

3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I love it :~)

Best I can tell, after 30 years of reading reviews, all audiophile gear is always great, and always punches above its weight class.  There have been no exceptions to that universal truth 😂

[DancingSea]

I've been corresponding with Linear Tube Audio about the MZ2.  Very nice folks.   They explained that the ZOTL technology is designed to add more resolution, clarity, air, and textural detail.  By doing this, it can appear that warmth, body and weight are reduced.  My quest for a tube preamp has been largely in an effort to increase warmth, body and weight and get a way from yet more resolution.  In that light, while I'm certain LTA products are exceptional, I've moved the Freya+ back to the top of the list.  The Rogue RP-1 remains, along with the Vincent SA32.  But I think it's going to be the Freya+, though I realize it's not an old school buttery tube preamp either.

[DancingSea]

15 hours ago, firedog said:

Have you ever thought of using DSP to get the effect you want? DSP software give you lots of possibilities and you can dial in the amout of the various effects you want. There are audio plugins that do all the kind of things you seem to be interested in. 

 

I use HQPlayer with Roon.  But I think tubes bring something computers can't.  At least I've convinced myself of that.

 

Has anyone tried Musical Paradise?

[DancingSea]

10 hours ago, Forehaven said:

I have the MZ2 preamp, and demoed the Freya, the LTA was by far for me the more accurate and musical enjoyment.  Just my .02

 

Thanks for the feedback.  Was the LTA lean, or lacking in body and weight compared to the Freya?  And was it the Freya+, or the original Freya?  Thanks!