Article: CAPS Twenty | Part One

[bbosler]

I think I get this, it is an endpoint to deliver higher rate DSD than other endpoints currently available commercially. Or just a fun project to build a Roon or HQplayer  endpoint if one feels these sort of projects are fun.

 

If correct, that leave the one question for me I don't see addressed.. sound quality.

 

As a confirmed skeptic about how much a device like this is capable of changing the sound from my DAC when it delivers the same digital data all other devices like this deliver, it seems like a huge leap of faith to invest the $3K or so it takes to put together the full blown version without at least some comment about sound quality.

 

And I get the viewpoint that "if you don't believe in it then just move one," but since this whole site is devoted to maximizing sound quality and chatting about how to do that, it seems like a huge omission not to talk about it.

 

 

[firedog]

1 hour ago, bbosler said:

I think I get this, it is an endpoint to deliver higher rate DSD than other endpoints currently available commercially. Or just a fun project to build a Roon or HQplayer  endpoint if one feels these sort of projects are fun.

 

If correct, that leave the one question for me I don't see addressed.. sound quality.

 

As a confirmed skeptic about how much a device like this is capable of changing the sound from my DAC when it delivers the same digital data all other devices like this deliver, it seems like a huge leap of faith to invest the $3K or so it takes to put together the full blown version without at least some comment about sound quality.

 

And I get the viewpoint that "if you don't believe in it then just move one," but since this whole site is devoted to maximizing sound quality and chatting about how to do that, it seems like a huge omission not to talk about it.

 

 

Chris specifically stated that the project wasn't about SQ, but about enabling all format playback on a wider range of DACs. That, and the cool factor....

Maybe he will comment on the SQ one way or the other at some point. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Sound quality is a tough one because an apples to apples comparison is impossible. This endpoint makes sense for people who need Windows drivers for high rate native DSD because no other device is available. By definition I can't compare sound quality to something that doesn't exist. 

 

In addition, if I compare it to commercial devices for which a product already exists, then there is no need for this endpoint.

 

I can hear some people banging their keyboards and screaming at their screens asking for a simple statement about sound quality. Fine, I understand that. I think CAPS Twenty.One sounds great. Sending DSD512 through it from HQPlayer is great. 

 

As I've said a few times already, if a commercial product exists that meets one's requirements, then by all means go that route. If people need Windows and/or like building their own solutions, then this is a proven route that sounds great. 

[bbosler]

On 6/30/2020 at 11:47 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

I can hear some people banging their keyboards and screaming at their screens asking for a simple statement about sound quality.

 

Well, perhaps some, but I was just kinda curious 🐱

 

Am I correct to say that any computer that can run the HQplayer NAA software is capable of delivering the high rate DSD over USB like this one? I understand that commenting on the infinite combinations of hardware is impossible, just wondering if there is something special about this combination that makes it unique for the purpose.

 

Since HQplayer will run within Roon, will it also deliver DSD at these rates?

 

again, just curious 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, bbosler said:

 

Well, perhaps some, but I was just kinda curious 🐱

 

Am I correct to say that any computer that can run the HQplayer NAA software is capable of delivering the high rate DSD over USB like this one? I understand that commenting on the infinite combinations of hardware is impossible, just wondering if there is something special about this combination that makes it unique for the purpose.

 

Since HQplayer will run within Roon, will it also deliver DSD at these rates?

 

again, just curious 

The computer must run Windows to work with some DACs that only work with Windows for native DSD. Small number but there are some. 
 

Roon send the stream to HQP. Or Roon can use its own DSP. 

[Matias]

24 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The computer must run Windows to work with some DACs that only work with Windows for native DSD. Small number but there are some. 

I don't know, to me this is like we customers bending over to fix an issue that the DAC manufacturer should be fixing instead. Personally this approach seems wrong to me, as if we are covering their flaws. Sorry for the rant.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Matias said:

I don't know, to me this is like we customers bending over to fix an issue that the DAC manufacturer should be fixing instead. Personally this approach seems wrong to me, as if we are covering their flaws. Sorry for the rant.

To quote the infamous Donald Rumsfeld, “You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.”

 

I can only control so much and it doesn’t include other manufacturers. Thus, I use a Windows machine when necessary. 

[R1200CL]

On 7/1/2020 at 7:28 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

The computer must run Windows to work with some DACs that only work with Windows for native DSD. Small number but there are some. 

I think the readers should be told which DAC’s. So far only T+A is mentioned.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

14 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

I think the readers should be told which DAC’s. So far only T+A is mentioned.

 

 

I don’t have a list. Perhaps people who use those DACs will know and people who produce Linux devices will know which DACs they don’t support. 
 

I had an Auralic device that required Windows. I had a different manufacturer’s device that made noise at high rate DSD on Linux. It was supposed to be supported but there were some issues that didn’t present themselves on Windows. I don’t know the current status so I’ll withhold the name for fear of getting accosted. 

[barrows]

Sonore publishes a list of DACs which are confirmed to be supported for native DSD on Sonore Renderers.  This list is not complete, as there are new DACs coming out all the time and it is impossible to keep track of every DAC.  When a DAC maker develops a new  or different operating systems in USB receiver/code, it is up to them to insure compatibility (or not!).  The Sonore software team is constantly working with the rest of the Linux community behind the scenes to insure compatibility with as many DACs as possible.  Unfortunately, some DAC producers are not so diligent.

At Sonore we are happy to help any DAC manufacturer which approaches us to insure compatibility with Linux based Servers and Renderers.

DoP will always work, but native DSD requires getting the code correct, as there is no accepted standard.

 

The T+A DAC 8 is compatible with Linux up to DSD 512 with the right firmware in the Amanero USB receiver, as is any DAC using the Amanero USB receiver with the correct Amanero code.  I use the Amanero here with my DSC-2 and DSD 512 and it works perfectly.  If one has a DAC with the Amanero USB interface, just be sure to run the 2006be 11 firmware for native DSD.

 

Funny thing is, cheap Chinese DACs, like Topping et al, always seem to work flawlessly for Native DSD up to 512 and even 1024!  

[bobfa]

Chris,

 

I have re-read this again and I really like the whole package idea.  I can see a bunch of different ways of bringing it together.    There are a lot of options we can experiment with!  

 

There is also a nice upgrade path.  Start out with just the Latte!  nice.

 

The little display panel really interests me.  So many thoughts.

 

thanks again.

 

ref

[barrows]

On 7/5/2020 at 7:11 AM, R1200CL said:

I think the readers should be told which DAC’s. So far only T+A is mentioned.

 

 

After some research, and contacting Thesycon, I have confirmed that the new T+A DACs (using the Thesycon USB receiver code, such as the H 200 headphone amp) should work fine for Native DSD from linux based sources such as Sonore.

And the older T+A DAC 8, which uses the Amanero USB interface, should also work fine as long as one runs the correct software for Native DSD on the Amanero interface (2006be 11).

[jrobbins50]

On 7/1/2020 at 12:28 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

The computer must run Windows to work with some DACs that only work with Windows for native DSD. Small number but there are some. 
 

Roon send the stream to HQP. Or Roon can use its own DSP. 

In my experience, for multichannel audio, Windows works better than Linux, whether DSD or FLAC. JCR 

[R1200CL]

Chris

Can you test out Furutech Nano Liquid in part two ? 
Finally a 🐍 oil that works ? 😀

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Everyone, just a note to say that as of August 2020, I'm using the new JCAT NET CARD XE in CAPS Twenty.One. This is the newest card from JCAT and replaces the NET CARD FEMTO. So far the results are terrific. 

 

Thanks to @Marcin_gps for getting me the card!

[Marcin_gps]

22 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Everyone, just a note to say that as of August 2020, I'm using the new JCAT NET CARD XE in CAPS Twenty.One. This is the newest card from JCAT and replaces the NET CARD FEMTO. So far the results are terrific. 

 

Thanks to @Marcin_gps for getting me the card!

You're welcome, Chris - enjoy

 

The rest of the crowd will have to wait until end of September 

 

Cheers,

Marcin

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys, check out Streacom's new VU1 Dynamic Analogue Dials and its acknowledgement of this CAPS Twenty.One design -