I received my Yggdrasil, and have a question...

[AudioDoctor]

I have tried both the RCA and the XLR outputs, but not an adapter. The RCA outputs output at 2V and the XLR outputs 4V so it may influence gain in the rest of the chain.

[matthias]

@JoeWhip

@barrows

The question is if pin3 should be connected to RCA ground or should be left unconnected.

What are the pros and cons?

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

2 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

I have tried both the RCA and the XLR outputs, but not an adapter. The RCA outputs output at 2V and the XLR outputs 4V so it may influence gain in the rest of the chain.

 

AFAIK, consensus is XLR sounds best when the rest of the set-up is balanced as well.

 

Matt

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, matthias said:

 

AFAIK, consensus is XLR sounds best when the rest of the set-up is balanced as well.

 

Matt

 

I'm not sure if the XLR inputs on the Mcintosh are truly balanced.

[barrows]

2 hours ago, matthias said:

@JoeWhip

@barrows

The question is if pin3 should be connected to RCA ground or should be left unconnected.

What are the pros and cons?

Thanks

 

Matt

Think of the connection as being about the difference between two wires.  Balanced to single ended, would take the difference between pin 2 and pin 3.  To achieve the same difference signal at the single ended input, pin 2 connects to hot (RCA center pin) and pin 3 connects to ground, keeping the difference signal the same.  This approach also allows the cable run to still provide common mode rejection on its way to the preamp.

 

Another point though: I would only choose the use the balanced outputs this way if the single ended output is derived just from half of the balanced signal (using pin 2 referenced to ground).  There is a better way some DACs can create their single ended outputs: one can take the balanced signal, and then sum it to a single ended signal through an active balanced to single ended converter (or using a transformer, but that is less common).  The advantage of this approach, is that it takes advantage of the common mode distortion/noise rejection of the balanced output, and provides that same advantage on the single ended outputs.  If the Yggdrasil uses an active balanced to single ended stage internally, then I would just run RCA cables to the single ended preamp.

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, barrows said:

Think of the connection as being about the difference between two wires.  Balanced to single ended, would take the difference between pin 2 and pin 3.  To achieve the same difference signal at the single ended input, pin 2 connects to hot (RCA center pin) and pin 3 connects to ground, keeping the difference signal the same.  This approach also allows the cable run to still provide common mode rejection on its way to the preamp.

 

Another point though: I would only choose the use the balanced outputs this way if the single ended output is derived just from half of the balanced signal (using pin 2 referenced to ground).  There is a better way some DACs can create their single ended outputs: one can take the balanced signal, and then sum it to a single ended signal through an active balanced to single ended converter (or using a transformer, but that is less common).  The advantage of this approach, is that it takes advantage of the common mode distortion/noise rejection of the balanced output, and provides that same advantage on the single ended outputs.  If the Yggdrasil uses an active balanced to single ended stage internally, then I would just run RCA cables to the single ended preamp.

 

I think the Yggy sums the differentially balanced signal and outputs that to the RCA connections.

 

edit: From Schiit.com. 

"fully discrete, Class A FET summing stages for single-ended output"  

 

 

[JoeWhip]

That is indeed correct Audiodoctor. I still use the balanced with adapters recommended by someone at Schiit. I am very happy with the results, even if I am only hearing the difference between 4V and 2V. If I were to make a change to the Yggy, it would only be a beefier power supply. Not sure there is enough room for that though. 

[matthias]

34 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

That is indeed correct Audiodoctor. I still use the balanced with adapters recommended by someone at Schiit. I am very happy with the results, even if I am only hearing the difference between 4V and 2V. If I were to make a change to the Yggy, it would only be a beefier power supply. Not sure there is enough room for that though. 

 

Please, can you share how the adapters are configurated or provide a link?

At least it seems not to be recommended by Schiit:

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-yggdrasil-impressions-thread.766347/page-30#post-11778417

 

Thanks

 

Matt

 

[JoeWhip]

That was quite a few years ago (at least 7 years, wow) as was using them since I bought the Gungnir DS that I eventually upgraded to the Gumby. I will PM you once I recall what the adapters are. I will pull them next time I power down the system which will likely be tomorrow with severe thunderstorms predicted, 7 years with no issues at all.

[musicguy]

Heat?

 

How hot does this dac get?  I have a rack and the space it goes into will have a 1 inch space about the dac.  Is this enough?

 

Im upgrading from a gumby to a Yggdrasil.

 

m usicguy

[JoeWhip]

Doesn’t get hot at all. While it looks like there are ventilation holes on the top of the unit, they are not holes at all. Just use normal clearance rules and you will be fine.

[bobbmd]

@AudioDoctor have had my Yggy GS since November never really heard it sound 'bad' right from the get go left it on for about 48-72 hrs at first before playing anything it has always sounded great and I have never shut it down-- just my totally subjective observations

[AudioDoctor]

34 minutes ago, bobbmd said:

@AudioDoctor have had my Yggy GS since November never really heard it sound 'bad' right from the get go left it on for about 48-72 hrs at first before playing anything it has always sounded great and I have never shut it down-- just my totally subjective observations

 

I have been at the lake since the evening of the 2nd, and therefore not listening to the Yggy, but I did leave it powered on. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, has happened to it since I left.

[AudioDoctor]

7 hours ago, musicguy said:

Heat?

 

How hot does this dac get?  I have a rack and the space it goes into will have a 1 inch space about the dac.  Is this enough?

 

Im upgrading from a gumby to a Yggdrasil.

 

m usicguy

 

Neither the Yggy, nor my Modi Multibit ever get hot. They get warm but the skin seems to work really well as an effective heat sink.

[bobbmd]

My Yggy GS never gets even warm it’s on all the time my Rggy 2 gets warm never really hot even with all day use but do shut it down when not in use— hope this helps and if the Yggy GS is still offered get it you will save 100’s of dollars 

[AudioDoctor]

Well, I am home and the Yggy after being on all this time is sounding WONDERFUL!

[Blake]

So your "brain burned in" while you were not at home? 😆

 

...thats a joke btw.  

[AudioDoctor]

23 minutes ago, Blake said:

So your "brain burned in" while you were not at home? 😆

 

...thats a joke btw.  

 

Maybe I just missed it... 😉

[Dr Tone]

11 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

Well, I am home and the Yggy after being on all this time is sounding WONDERFUL!

HQPlayer?  Do you have the bit depth set to 20?

[JoeWhip]

Great to hear. Check out the Benny Carter Jazz Giant recording. Sensational. Also check out the OJJ Version of Andre Previn West Side Story. Unreal soundstage.

[AudioDoctor]

5 hours ago, Dr Tone said:

HQPlayer?  Do you have the bit depth set to 20?

 

No, it's set to default, which is what I think it's called, I'd have to check. But the Yggy gets sent 32 bits according to HQP.

[Dr Tone]

31 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

No, it's set to default, which is what I think it's called, I'd have to check. But the Yggy gets sent 32 bits according to HQP.

I think you should set it to 20 bit, let HQP do some nice dithering instead of the rounding or truncating to 20 bit the Yggy does internally.

[AudioDoctor]

6 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

I think you should set it to 20 bit, let HQP do some nice dithering instead of the rounding or truncating to 20 bit the Yggy does internally.

 

It is on @Miska's advice I have HQP set to default.

[Miska]

If you know a particular R2R ladder has certain resolution, like Yggdrasil has 20-bit, you can set it to 20-bit and since maximum rate it can take in is 192k maybe use TPDF dither. It cannot be set to completely optimal, since in Yggdrasil case the internal digital filter cannot be bypassed even at high rates, so it'll still do 2x upsampling.

 

You can compare "Default" with TPDF dither vs 20-bit with TPDF dither and check if you notice a difference.

 

[AudioDoctor]

8 hours ago, Miska said:

If you know a particular R2R ladder has certain resolution, like Yggdrasil has 20-bit, you can set it to 20-bit and since maximum rate it can take in is 192k maybe use TPDF dither. It cannot be set to completely optimal, since in Yggdrasil case the internal digital filter cannot be bypassed even at high rates, so it'll still do 2x upsampling.

 

You can compare "Default" with TPDF dither vs 20-bit with TPDF dither and check if you notice a difference.

 

 

I'll give it a shot.