I received my Yggdrasil, and have a question...

[AudioDoctor]

The consensus over on Head-Fi seems to be that it takes a month of constantly being powered up before it starts to sound the way it is supposed to sound. Have the owners of this DAC here found that to be the case?

[matthias]

53 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

The consensus over on Head-Fi seems to be that it takes a month of constantly being powered up before it starts to sound the way it is supposed to sound. Have the owners of this DAC here found that to be the case?

 

.......and the following posts 🙂

 

Matt

[AudioDoctor]

18 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

.......and the following posts 🙂

 

Matt

 

How in the heck do I get to the post you're referencing?

 

 

edit: I got it.  Thanks.

[Blake]

Hi AudioDoc:

 

I purchased a new Yggy Analog 2.  When I received it, turned it on and cold out of the box.....  honestly, it sounded broken.  I listened again after a couple hours and slightly better, but it still sounded broken.  I couldn't believe this was the Yggy A2 which received so much positive press and user reviews.  I almost contacted Schitt to ask about a return so they could test my unit.

 

I decided to let it burn.  I was busy at work and didn't have much time to listen so I think I ran it continuously for about a month before listening again.  When I did, it was like a completely different component.  I really enjoyed my time with my Yggy and glad I did not judge it before the break in period, or I would have returned it.

 

 

[JoeWhip]

It will get better and better the longer it is on, but really should sound good overnight. I would run music through it if you can while you aren’t listening to it. 300 hours is about right, so about three weeks until is is optimized but the improvement after two weeks isn’t that much. 

[AudioDoctor]

At this point, it's been on for ~24 hours, and playing music for ~5 hours between today and last night. I think it sounds a little better, but I sure hope it improves a lot. Thanks for the replies.

[photonman]

In my novice opinion, the only thing that could change in 24 hours is that you are acclimating to the new different sound.  I would expect an electronic device to sound the way it is going to sound straight out of the box.  I mean, solder and silicon will not magically age to taste better like a fine wine.  Now certain wines truly do get better if you age them properly, especially an Italian Brunello but electronics?  Aging is a process of degradation, a process where things break down so if you age your super DAC, will it sound better to your aging super ears?

[JoeWhip]

Sorry photo man, but I have personal experience with a few Yggys. The burn in thing is real. You don’t get used to the sound listening for brief periods every few days,

[Blake]

If someone can't hear the difference between a new Yggy with a couple hours on it, and a Yggy after a month, then, well, I will respect their opinion, but something is wrong (hearing ability or a mental refusal to hear anything) or their audio environment.   Now, the amount of change detected by any person will vary because this is a subjective scale. One person's "small" change could be another person's "jaw dropping" moment.

 

If ever there was a piece of audio gear that proves burn-in is real, it is the Yggy.

 

The burn-in can't be real topic, like cable debates, etc. are dull, boring and overplayed.  The poor horse passed away years ago.   

 

P.S. @AudioDoctor sorry if this is derailing your thread. I'll say no more on the topic.

 

[opus101]

57 minutes ago, photonman said:

I mean, solder and silicon will not magically age to taste better like a fine wine.

 

There's more to a DAC than solder and silicon. They normally have electrolytic capacitors for example.

[AudioDoctor]

56 minutes ago, Blake said:

If someone can't hear the difference between a new Yggy with a couple hours on it, and a Yggy after a month, then, well, I will respect their opinion, but something is wrong (hearing ability or a mental refusal to hear anything) or their audio environment.   Now, the amount of change detected by any person will vary because this is a subjective scale. One person's "small" change could be another person's "jaw dropping" moment.

 

If ever there was a piece of audio gear that proves burn-in is real, it is the Yggy.

 

The burn-in can't be real topic, like cable debates, etc. are dull, boring and overplayed.  The poor horse passed away years ago.   

 

P.S. @AudioDoctor sorry if this is derailing your thread. I'll say no more on the topic.

 

 

It's fine, it's not necessarily off topic. I don't even know where I come down on the burn-in debate yet, so this is an interesting piece of equipment. I am well aware of the idea of thermal equilibrium, but that should only take a few hours at most? Possibly even less.

 

[JoeWhip]

Three weeks did it for me, with some of the storms here Recently, the Yggy gets turned off. However, even if it is off overnight. Sounds great again in an hour. Keep us posted Audiodoctor.

[Blake]

I should note, when I bought my Yggy A2, the A2 upgrade had just been released and there was a big backlog on Yggy A2 new orders and upgrades to A2 for older Yggy units. 

 

As such, it is possible Schiit did not do their normal pre-delivery burn in on my Yggy as they hurried to fulfill orders, which could account for my extreme change experience.  Again, my experience was limited to three "snap shots": (1) cold out of the box, (2) after a couple hours, and (3) after one month of continuous use.  So I have no idea at what point my Yggy arrived at optimum burn in/stabilization, only that it occurred sometime between a couple hours and one month.

 

 

[lucretius]

17 hours ago, JoeWhip said:

Sorry photo man, but I have personal experience with a few Yggys. The burn in thing is real. You don’t get used to the sound listening for brief periods every few days,

 

Presuming for the sake of argument that the burn-in thing is real, why doesn't Schiit burn-in the units before shipping? Or do they have a pre-delivery burn-in as @Blake suggests?

[JoeWhip]

I believe they burn them in for two or three days just to make sure they are working properly, not for maximum sound quality. Holding them for two to three weeks before shipping would not go over too well with customers who can do that themselves while listening too and enjoying music.

[barrows]

2 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

Presuming for the sake of argument that the burn-in thing is real, why doesn't Schiit burn-in the units before shipping? Or do they have a pre-delivery burn-in as @Blake suggests?

Considering the low prices that Schiit charges for their gear, I would suspect they do not have the cash flow ability to keep a bunch of units on the shelf burning in for month before delivery: remember, every one of those units sitting on a shelf represents cash flow, which is something usually in very short supply for most small audio companies.  Not mention, just having the extra space to burin in 20-30 units at time would cost even more money.

[JoeWhip]

Schiit cash flow is just fine, even today. However, I doubt any high end or mid fi brand has any desire to have product sitting around burning in for a month when that product could be shipped out to paying customers. It is on us to do the burning in, once the product is shown to operate within specs prior to shipment.

[bobflood]

On 6/20/2020 at 3:15 PM, AudioDoctor said:

The consensus over on Head-Fi seems to be that it takes a month of constantly being powered up before it starts to sound the way it is supposed to sound. Have the owners of this DAC here found that to be the case?

It also could be that it takes about a month of brain burn-in for one to get used to the fact that it sounds different from whatever was being listened to before.

[AudioDoctor]

8 minutes ago, bobflood said:

It also could be that it takes about a month of brain burn-in for one to get used to the fact that it sounds different from whatever was being listened to before.

 

A distinct possibility.

[Blake]

Owner's Manual, Page 7, burn in:

 

https://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/yggdrasil_manual_1_1.pdf

 

The manual is admittedly a bit cryptic on this topic, but it is mentioned.  On factory burn-in, I know I read about it somewhere.  It is not in the owner's manual, but it has been reported a number of times by forum members.  

 

[plissken]

On 6/20/2020 at 6:57 PM, AudioDoctor said:

At this point, it's been on for ~24 hours, and playing music for ~5 hours between today and last night. I think it sounds a little better, but I sure hope it improves a lot. Thanks for the replies.

 

You'll habituate to it pretty quick is my guess. 

[AudioDoctor]

33 minutes ago, Blake said:

Owner's Manual, Page 7, burn in:

 

https://schiit.com/public/upload/PDF/yggdrasil_manual_1_1.pdf

 

The manual is admittedly a bit cryptic on this topic, but it is mentioned.  On factory burn-in, I know I read about it somewhere.  It is not in the owner's manual, but it has been reported a number of times by forum members.  

 

 

I knew I should have read that thing, I've been looking everywhere for the alien wave absorbers...

[AudioDoctor]

I find it interesting that they bothered to put the 8x light on it considering it only goes to 4x right now. IMO that's a pretty clear indicator they're planning on upgrading it to higher PCM resolutions at some point.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I would love to see a chart that lists crystal oscillators and the length of time each one takes, with specific ambient temperature, to stabilize 100% after power on. 

[bobflood]

22 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I would love to see a chart that lists crystal oscillators and the length of time each one takes, with specific ambient temperature, to stabilize 100% after power on. 

I am sure that John Swenson could point you to that chart. From what I have read "stabilize" is a loaded term that has many meanings. Stable short term vs long term is just one example. Frequency drift and deterioration is another.