DAC/Preamp upgrade - novice question

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13 hours ago, firedog said:

Do you have a budget?

IMO, if you are talkng just about the DAC section, you will have to spend a lot to get a big improvement.

If you are talking about a pre-amp, there are lots of possibilities. Or are you set on a DAC with a preamp section?

Don't worry about the DAC chip itself. It probably has very little influence on what you actually hear; other aspects of the DAC design are what matter and account for most of the differences in sound. 

Although I agree with you in general, I do not so much in this case. The D50 uses a bottom rung Sabre chip and the D90 uses a top AKM one. Sabre chips definitely have a house sound that some love and others hate. I say this as a DIYer that has played with them extensively with multiple IVs, analog sections and power supplies. I would look into direct comparisons of the two DACs before I discounted the differences.

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15 minutes ago, firedog said:

 

Just as a ballpark statement, you're  going to have to go to the $1000-2000 level or more to get a significant DAC improvement, and even that may not do it. I wouldn't do it without auditioning some DACs - Mytek, Benchmark, Schiit, etc,, and find out what you hear. You may or may not hear a big difference. 

If you decide for any of the reasons already mentioned to get a pre, Schiit makes some nice ones in your price range. 

 

I'm sure your present system sounds great and is very good value for the money.

 

I don't know what your taste/orientation is in SQ, but if it was me, I'd invest in room correction software-microphone or acoustic panels or a sub. I think any of those might make a bigger improvement per Euro of investment. 

Once again I disagree. I have found that many DACs have markedly different signatures, doubly so for the lower cost ones. What one one prefers can be a crap shoot. I am not suggesting that the OP needs to do anything, but I have played around with some low cost DACs that impressed and some that disappointed. Coupled with the knowledge that the OP is going amp direct makes this even more valid IMO. YMMV.

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1 minute ago, firedog said:

The poster has the D50s, which has a pretty advanced implementation of Sabre - better than some more expensive DACs. And I don't really agree with the idea of a "house" sound of the chip - I think different implementations of the same chips can sound different. I'm pretty sure in blind testing I could get a few DACs and listeners couldn't tell me what chip was in the DAC. 

$250 doesn't purchase much by way of power supply and the Q versions are the bottom tier AFAIK. The Sabre chips are known for being power supply sensitive FWIW, but of course you are welcome to you opinion.

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3 minutes ago, firedog said:

Once again, all I said was that he shouldn't assume spending $1000 will get him a DAC he likes better. Or that it is enough better that  it will be worth 4X the price of his D50s. There are a lot of very happy users of that DAC around. That's one of the reasons he should check out a separate pre. That may make more of a difference than changing  the DAC.

And I suggested that the OP should look into direct comparisons of the two and not assume anything. Unlike some here, I have found marked differences in some inexpensive DACs.

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8 minutes ago, al2813 said:

 

This was my idea before I started this I started this post. I was just trying to decide between the D90 and the ADI-2 (with looking at the gustard as well). Key reason for hesitating was that the ADI-2 is described in forums as having a much better pre-amp analogue section, but does not have the latest AKM chip. 

I believe that indeed without working my room acoustics and even with (I suspect my hearing may not be sensitive enough) there's no point in going further upstream. 

 

My best advice would be to get loaners or return privileges for what ever you choose. Your system is of high enough caliber to make auditioning important.

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14 minutes ago, firedog said:

The poster has the D50s, which has a pretty advanced implementation of Sabre - better than some more expensive DACs. And I don't really agree with the idea of a "house" sound of the chip - I think different implementations of the same chips can sound different. I'm pretty sure in blind testing I could get a few DACs and listeners couldn't tell me what chip was in the DAC. 

Once again, the D50s uses the lower tiered Q version of the chip. Its not a stretch to think that the same company is producing two different products at two different price points. If the D90 was no better than the D50, shame on Topping for asking 3x the price. I would love to suggest that there are no differences in devices as they increase in price. Ive said about all I have to on this.

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6 minutes ago, al2813 said:

Only issue is that loaners are hard - Stores are not that keen to offer them and in any case I don't know of any physical store carrying the D90 for example. So option will be to buy online test and return. Even that is a challenge. Audiophonics allows a 14 day return policy and you have to ship the box back at your own cost. Amazon has currently no stock in Europe. 

 

Hence am trying to get as much feedback and advice as I can from people who've been there and tried that. I went through very few devices (the D50s is my first dedicated DAC on my hifi setup) hence have very little experience to rely upon. 

Sadly that is the state of affairs where brick and mortar stores have fallen. If this is your first dedicated DAC then you should definitely audition some others. As to paying for return shipping, that seems only fair, no? You cannot expect a company to be willing to absorb everything, which basically increases the cost for the next person.