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Streamers Recommendations


MrX

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First off, as a newbie, I was wondering if streamer will affect the sound quality? I thought the resolution is determined by dac and amp. I’m looking for a good streamer under 800USD to mate with my dac and amp. I am astounded by the huge price gap of various streamers and why?

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1 hour ago, MrX said:

I have RME adi dac and newly bought Metrum Accoustic Amethyst:) I would like to have a wireless streamer cause I don’t have long internet cable. Many thanks:)

You could use something like the Bluesound Node 2i. It will do wireless and output via optical or coaxial S/PDIF to your DAC. the cost is in line with the DACs. Not sure what you want to use for a source app or if you want to use the Bluesound app. There are many options. Wireless will be your limiting factor, not necessarily with sound quality but with choices that support WiFi. 

 

https://www.bluesound.com/products/node/

 

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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26 minutes ago, MrX said:

First off, as a newbie, I was wondering if streamer will affect the sound quality? I thought the resolution is determined by dac and amp. I’m looking for a good streamer under 800USD to mate with my dac and amp. I am astounded by the huge price gap of various streamers and why?

Which DAC do you use? A streamer recommendation will depend on the DAC inputs, and of course your needs. 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

Which DAC do you use? A streamer recommendation will depend on the DAC inputs, and of course your needs. 

I have RME adi dac and newly bought Metrum Accoustic Amethyst:) I would like to have a wireless streamer cause I don’t have long internet cable. Many thanks:)

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If you don't believe that streamers affect sound quality, just get a Raspberry Pi 3B+ or 4; wi-fi in, USB out. IME, streamers do affect SQ and it is worthwhile getting a better one. Here are a couple of possibilities:

 

Allo USBridge Signature with Shanti power supply:

https://allo.com/sparky/usbridge-signature-player.html

 

SOtM sMS-200 Neo, comes with a freebie wall wart, but sounds best with an upgraded power supply:

https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-200/

 

Either of the above would need a wi-fi adapter. SOtM had recommended this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Edimax-EW-7811UAC-Extension-Reception-Transmission/dp/B00LGN8I40

Or you could use a range extender that has an ethernet output and connect the streamer to it.

 

I have the sMS-200 and a Raspberry Pi 3B+. The sms sounds a lot better, even with a cheap wall wart. I've tried it with a an iPower and SQ improved. I use it with a Welborne Labs PS-REG and it easily sounds than the iPower. I tried an iPower 5V with the Raspberry and heard no difference. 

 

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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On 6/16/2020 at 10:00 AM, MrX said:

First off, as a newbie, I was wondering if streamer will affect the sound quality? I thought the resolution is determined by dac and amp. I’m looking for a good streamer under 800USD to mate with my dac and amp. I am astounded by the huge price gap of various streamers and why?

Streamer is a bit vague... lets narrow it down to streaming endpoint for DAC output. At that boundary the conversion from computer digital format to

DAC digital formats is vulnerable to hardware and software weaknesses. While the media source can impact, its not hard to get right if you buy a competent NAS

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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2 hours ago, audiobomber said:

If you don't believe that streamers affect sound quality, just get a Raspberry Pi 3B+ or 4; wi-fi in, USB out. IME, streamers do affect SQ and it is worthwhile getting a better one. Here are a couple of possibilities:

 

Allo USBridge Signature with Shanti power supply:

https://allo.com/sparky/usbridge-signature-player.html

 

SOtM sMS-200 Neo, comes with a freebie wall wart, but sounds best with an upgraded power supply:

https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-200/

 

Either of the above would need a wi-fi adapter. SOtM had recommended this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Edimax-EW-7811UAC-Extension-Reception-Transmission/dp/B00LGN8I40

Or you could use a range extender that has an ethernet output and connect the streamer to it.

 

I have the sMS-200 and a Raspberry Pi 3B+. The sms sounds a lot better, even with a cheap wall wart. I've tried it with a an iPower and SQ improved. I use it with a Welborne Labs PS-REG and it easily sounds than the iPower. I tried an iPower 5V with the Raspberry and heard no difference. 

 

My gratitude!

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On 6/16/2020 at 10:39 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

You could use something like the Bluesound Node 2i. It will do wireless and output via optical or coaxial S/PDIF to your DAC. the cost is in line with the DACs. Not sure what you want to use for a source app or if you want to use the Bluesound app. There are many options. Wireless will be your limiting factor, not necessarily with sound quality but with choices that support WiFi. 

 

https://www.bluesound.com/products/node/

 

 

I did not find wireless satisfactory, could have been environment variables. A TPLink  Powerline GbE network adaptor was more satisfactory/reliable. Although I seem to recall using

more than 1 can be a problem.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

It's really hard to suggest further hardware without knowing your software preference. the SOtM units are great as long as you use HQPlayer, DLNA, or Roon. If that isn't your thing then all bets are off. 

DLNA is widely available via many software players, but the sMS operating system also plays LMS, SqueezeLite, Shairport and LibreSpot and has selectable MinimServer and BubbleSoft UPNP servers.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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Chris did an article on network extention here, may benefit the OP:

 

 

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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On 6/17/2020 at 10:12 AM, davide256 said:

I did not find wireless satisfactory, could have been environment variables. A TPLink  Powerline GbE network adaptor was more satisfactory/reliable. Although I seem to recall using

more than 1 can be a problem.

Agreed that powerline can be much more reliable than wifi.  It was at my house, anyway, especially with hi-res files, which sometimes stuttered over wifi extender connections.  I ran it to an sms-1000 server and then a microrendu before giving in and having CAT-6 installed.

 

The knock against powerline is that it's noisy.  Maybe true, but I never found the noise level to be objectionable and the 100% uptime was a glorious alternative to wifi'S spottier record in my house.  The OP might want to check it out, as it is not more expensive than is a quality range extender, at least in the US.

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7  > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s

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On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 8:26 PM, audiobomber said:

Chris did an article on network extention here, may benefit the OP:

 

 

 

This is an excellent article with very good recommendations for Wi-Fi devices.

I have no issues with Wi-Fi at all.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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@stefano_mbp Stefano, regarding sms200 ultra & sps 500 I would like to know: a) if the libre spot is working well with spotify, b) if the Eunhasu browser android app helps you control the Eunhasu environment as if you control the device from a PC, c) can you control the device from bubble UPnP?

 

According to manual the playback OS are ROON, Squeezelite, HQ Player NAA. With MPD/DLNA you can use foobar2000, jriver, Audiorvana etc. Are there any other ways for music playback ?

 

Set up: Monitor Audio silver 500 loudspeakers to CXA81 amp connecting with USB cable to sms200 ultra & sps 500. Fritz box 7490 modem/router with ethernet cable to sms200 ultra & sps 500.

 

thx

 

 

 

 

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Hello Nikolaos,

I own the sms200 Neo, not Ultra, but the OS is the same ...

a) I never used librespot as I don’t have a Spotify account (nor Qobuz or Tidal)

b) I’ve seen that the Android app is available ... but I use iPhone and iPad ... I think it is just a little help, the eunhasu.local web address works fine and seems the app is just a “dress” for the web interface, then it should work just as the pc (or a tablet)

c) yes, Bubbleupnp is one of the apps you can use if MPD/DLNA is enabled, on Android you can use Kazoo too, not sure if MConnect is available on Android. If you want to stream from Qobuz Bubbleupnp is quite a must as eunhasu Qobuz interface is broken (on MPD/DLNA configuration) due to a Qobuz choice..... here some details 

https://www.lesbonscomptes.com/upmpdcli/upmpdcli-manual.html#upmpdcli.qobuznotes

 

Shairport is available too on eunhasu, it is a AirPlay emulator and I suppose it can be used with iDevices only (iPad or iPhone or Mac)

 

I use my SOtM sms200 configured with MPD/DLNA, my library is managed with Minimserver (on a NUC8i3 running Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS) and I control music playback with Lumïn app (available on Antroid too) installed on iPad and iPhone. Lumïn app needs Bubbleupnpserver (not Bubbleupnp) installed somewhere on the network (mine is running on the same NUC8i3) to make it OpenHome compatible

Stefano

 

My audio system

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On 6/16/2020 at 4:30 PM, MrX said:

I have RME adi dac and newly bought Metrum Accoustic Amethyst:) I would like to have a wireless streamer cause I don’t have long internet cable. Many thanks:)


What are you going to stream ? TIDAL ? Qobuz ? Your local files ? (How many and where). 

What’s your preferred SW ? (If any)

Do you have a NUC, an iDevice ?

How do you prefer to control your streamer ?

 

Are you able to access and log into the router for your WiFi ?

 

On 6/16/2020 at 4:00 PM, MrX said:

I was wondering if streamer will affect the sound quality?

Yes, normally. (Meaning they can sound differently)
 

What do you feed your DAC today ?

 

Would you consider sell it, and purchase a streaming DAC ?
(If so that Bluenode may be one possible option). 

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1 hour ago, bluesman said:

And the many lighter players like Rune, Volumio, etc are really slick on a 4.

Might be a bit off-topic, but we are talking about streaming.  Are Rune and Volumio capable of serving a DLNA stream over an ethernet connection in addition to playing over their USB outputs? 

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7  > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s

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57 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Might be a bit off-topic, but we are talking about streaming.  Are Rune and Volumio capable of serving a DLNA stream over an ethernet connection in addition to playing over their USB outputs? 

Yes - the internet radio streaming works great.  And DLNA also works, although you may have to do a bit of configuring on some platforms.  Here’s a link to the Volumio KB page telling you how to stream to it.  The Rune forum also has many threads about DLNA / UPnP streaming to it.

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21 minutes ago, bluesman said:

Yes - the internet radio streaming works great.  And DLNA also works, although you may have to do a bit of configuring on some platforms.  Here’s a link to the Volumio KB page telling you how to stream to it.  The Rune forum also has many threads about DLNA / UPnP streaming to it.

Thank you. I wasn't clear about that after glancing at the websites, whereas it is absolutely clear that they both work with USB DAC's via USB cable. I don't think I made my own system requirements clear, however. 

 

Clicking on the link shows that you can stream TO Volumio as a renderer using DLNA, but I don't see at first glance that you can stream FROM it as a server. 

 

I am trying to liberate my NUC from Roon ROCK when my subscription expires as you may recall.  :) I want it to stream to my rendus. 

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7 > HQP Embedded > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > Sonore Optical Module Deluxe > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Optical Tier 2 > Okto DAC 8 Stereo > Topping Pre90 Preamp > Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Computer Desk System: Synology DS-218+ NAS > Dell XPS 8930/NUC 10 i7  > HQP Desktop > xfinity Xfi Router > EtherRegen > ultraRendu > Topping D90 DAC > Audioengine A5+'s

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7 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

Hello Nikolaos,

I own the sms200 Neo, not Ultra, but the OS is the same ...

a) I never used librespot as I don’t have a Spotify account (nor Qobuz or Tidal)

b) I’ve seen that the Android app is available ... but I use iPhone and iPad ... I think it is just a little help, the eunhasu.local web address works fine and seems the app is just a “dress” for the web interface, then it should work just as the pc (or a tablet)

c) yes, Bubbleupnp is one of the apps you can use if MPD/DLNA is enabled, on Android you can use Kazoo too, not sure if MConnect is available on Android. If you want to stream from Qobuz Bubbleupnp is quite a must as eunhasu Qobuz interface is broken (on MPD/DLNA configuration) due to a Qobuz choice..... here some details 

https://www.lesbonscomptes.com/upmpdcli/upmpdcli-manual.html#upmpdcli.qobuznotes

 

Shairport is available too on eunhasu, it is a AirPlay emulator and I suppose it can be used with iDevices only (iPad or iPhone or Mac)

 

I use my SOtM sms200 configured with MPD/DLNA, my library is managed with Minimserver (on a NUC8i3 running Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS) and I control music playback with Lumïn app (available on Antroid too) installed on iPad and iPhone. Lumïn app needs Bubbleupnpserver (not Bubbleupnp) installed somewhere on the network (mine is running on the same NUC8i3) to make it OpenHome compatible

Stefano, because the storage of the hard disc of my laptop is not big enough the music files are stored on a NAS (HDD 3T external disc USB 3.0 connected in one of the USB 3.0 ports of router/modem). When I disconnect the HDD and a few days later connect it back I do not have to refresh it, and the playback of music files is just fine (pi4 with volumio). So, I am thinking of purchasing a SSD external disc and connected permanent on modem/router. According to the manual of sms200 I can configure it as a NAS. For music playback I will use ROON, Squeezelite, HQ Player NAA and Audiorvana with MPD/DLNA. In which case I can use minmserver? I use spotify premium account. Any other recommendations?

thx

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2 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

Clicking on the link shows that you can stream TO Volumio as a renderer using DLNA, but I don't see at first glance that you can stream FROM it as a server. 

Yes you can.  With Volumio 1.X, it was apparently built in.  Here's a LINK to a good instruction page for setting up Volumio as a DLNA server using MiniDLNA, which is easy to install with the command apt-get install minidlna.  Here's a LINK to a simple instruction page if you're running a Debian distro and here's a LINK if you're running Ubuntu.  AFAIK, BubbleUPnP does the same thing as minidlna.  Again, I've not tried this myself with Volumio, although I do use Bubble with JRiver to stream to multiple Chromecasts on my WLAN

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6 hours ago, bluesman said:

Ahh - now I understand why you’re so down on a Pi.  You’re basing your opinion on the last generation.  The 4 has true gigabit Ethernet, excellent ac WiFi, separate buses for USB and networking, USB 3, and improved power management.  It outperforms the 3B+ on almost all benchmarks by at least a factor of 2.  On many, it performs as much as 4 times better (see my own performance test results and the linked web tests in my Value Proposition articles about the Pi).  
 

With 4 gigs of RAM onboard and zram installed, there’s no SQ degradation from hitting performance limits, even with DSD.  A Pi 4 sounds mighty good to many of us with a variety of software.  It’ll even run a full JRiver Media Center instance as fast and well as an entry level laptop or desktop PC. And the many lighter players like Rune, Volumio, etc are really slick on a 4.

 

I think it’s an excellent choice for a streamer.  And you can buy 7 of them for the price of even a Neo.  An Ultra will set you back far more.

Clearly the Pi 4 is more powerful and has higher specs than the previous iterations. But computing power or speed does not equal sound quality and can hurt. Like most of the sMS-200 users here, I use 100BaseT rather than 1000BaseT because it sounds noticeably better at the lower rate.

 

I have not heard any credible source claim that a RPi equals a microrendu or sMS-200. I am pretty sure you have not tested this yourself? Besides, the sMS is a finished solution for music streaming. A Raspberry is not.

 

We've discussed SQ of the Pi 4 vs. older models previously. The comparisons I found all say the older, simpler Raspberries sound better.

 

 

PS I always run a USB DAC from a separate power supply with the RPi 3b+. Powered directly from the Raspberry sounds bad.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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38 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

The comparisons I found all say the older, simpler Raspberries sound better.

I assume from this comment that you haven’t actually heard and compared them yourself.

 

I own and regularly use 7 Pis, 2 of which are 4s and 3 of which are 3B+s.  I also have a ZeroW and a 3B.  Driving the same DACs (of which I have 5 good 2 channel units plus one fair to middlin’ 6 in/8 out), the 4s sound cleaner, clearer, more detailed and more dynamic playing Redbook flacs and DSD than the stock 3.  My overclocked (yes, you can overclock a 3B+ in a few ways) zrammed, cooled 3B+s sound better than stock and almost as good as the stock, cooled 4 gig 4s on easy files (24/96 flacs, DSD64).  
 

When pushed to its limits, a 3B+ sounds as I describe above, especially if it heats up enough to throttle the CPU.  Add the demands of a fancy GUI, eg JRiver Media Center, and a 3B is out of its league.  You can hear this almost like it’s running out of headroom.  It gets grainy and compressed.  The stock 4 in a cooled case has more horsepower, so it handles the load with less strain - and it sounds great.  And an overclocked, cooled 4 with zram, optimized RAM use (minimal GPU, adequate swap if needed, etc), and a USB3 SSD instead of a microSD plays beautifully enough to satisfy most critical but practical audiophiles.

 

Try it - you might like it.

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