Article: Review | Running a Large Roon Library on a QNAP TVS-872XT

[udis]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The way I used them, they don’t share a volume because there is no need. Just straight up one drive one volume. 

Got it! And the backup designation is set in Roon and not a job you’ve created in a QNAP backup app?

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, udis said:

Got it! And the backup designation is set in Roon and not a job you’ve created in a QNAP backup app?

Exactly. 
 

Some things don’t need to be complicated :~)

[EvilTed]

Create 2 storage pools, for example:

 

1. System

2. Data

 

In System, create a thick volume and in this put the M.2 drives in RAID 0.

This will double the performance of using the SSD stand alone.

You can now install QNAP OS and all your applications on the System Volume, including ROON.

 

In Data, setup the RAID pattern of your choice.

I prefer RAID 10 because it is faster than RAID 5 or 6 and it has a lower rebuild times (minuscule compared to 5 or 6).

 

With a Thick Volume you can use SnapShots.

As I've already mentioned, SnapShots are your friend.

TimeMachine on the Mac uses SnapShots.

You can restore anything backwards in time so long as you have a SnapShot taken on that day.

I take a daily SnapShot and save it for a 2 weeks.

 

If you are using HBS 3+ to sync your music files or other NAS data to the Cloud, you have probably setup encrypted jobs from your NAS.

This takes time to setup and is a PITA to do over from scratch.

If you SnapShot the volume and store it on an external USB then this is easy to restore.

You can also replicate a copy offsite, if you wish.

 

HTH

 

 

 

 

[udis]

On 7/17/2020 at 7:23 PM, EvilTed said:

Create 2 storage pools, for example:

 

1. System

2. Data

 

In System, create a thick volume and in this put the M.2 drives in RAID 0.

This will double the performance of using the SSD stand alone.

You can now install QNAP OS and all your applications on the System Volume, including ROON.

 

In Data, setup the RAID pattern of your choice.

I prefer RAID 10 because it is faster than RAID 5 or 6 and it has a lower rebuild times (minuscule compared to 5 or 6).

 

With a Thick Volume you can use SnapShots.

As I've already mentioned, SnapShots are your friend.

TimeMachine on the Mac uses SnapShots.

You can restore anything backwards in time so long as you have a SnapShot taken on that day.

I take a daily SnapShot and save it for a 2 weeks.

 

If you are using HBS 3+ to sync your music files or other NAS data to the Cloud, you have probably setup encrypted jobs from your NAS.

This takes time to setup and is a PITA to do over from scratch.

If you SnapShot the volume and store it on an external USB then this is easy to restore.

You can also replicate a copy offsite, if you wish.

 

HTH

 

 

 

 

thanks @EvilTed  am I correct to assume that in order to move the QNAP os to the m2 drives I need to remove all hdd, leave m2 in, boot up and reinstall the os? Does that mean I need to wipe out the current hhds?

[EvilTed]

No, you can move it to the M2 drives in a new volume without deleting anything.

 

Create the new volume, make it thick if you want to use SnapShots (recommended).

Add the M2 SSDs to it.

Make it RAID 0.

Backup the settings externally using Backup & Restore.

Power down.

Remove the spinning disks.

 

Power up and the system will automatically be installed on the new Volume.

Restore settings to new volume.

Power down.

Plug back in the spinning drives.

Power up.

 

Verify that the System files are running on the SSDs (System).

Done.

 

[udis]

On 7/17/2020 at 7:23 PM, EvilTed said:

SnapShot the volume and store it on an external USB then this is easy to restore.

Thank you @EvilTed I will give it a shot... question about the above statement. Reading qnap "how to" https://www.qnap.com/en-au/how-to/tutorial/article/using-snapshots-in-qts-4-3-4/ I do not see an option to save snapshot to an external USB drive. Is this easy to do? Also, what is the typical snapshot to storage ratio? I have about 20TB... and curious how big of a USB drive I need.

[EvilTed]

Yes, it is actually very easy but not documented.

Some say it isn't even possible, but don't believe what you read

 

1. Select your volume in Storage & SnapShots and from the Snapshot menu select 'Snapshot Manager'.

 

 

 

2. In Snapshot Manager select the Snapshot you want to export. The default is the latest (Now).

Click Export Snapshot.

 

 

3. Select your External USB Drive from External Storage.

Note that the USB drive must be at least as big as the volume size. 

 

 

Note that this a manual process and not as good as using Snapshot Replica, which can be scheduled.

But, it is a safe way to keep a copy of all your configuration in case something bad happens.

A single drive failure in RAID 0 will destroy the array and you will lose all the data in System, including Roon.

By using Snapshots, it's very easy to get everything back again.

 

BTW, I use Snapshot Replica because I have an old QNAP NAS that I keep around for this purpose.

 

Edit: Yes, using Snapshots may degrade volume performance on a large array, but I doubt it will have much effect on a RAID 0 SSD array, which is giving you double performance compared to a single drive.

You might also note that my volume size is 750 GB and not 2x 500 GB as may be expected.

This is because I leave 1/4 space as Snapshot reserve, which is the space required for Snapshot overhead in the file system.

 

HTH

 

 

 

[udis]

@EvilTed thank you for this! i will attempt to set this up!

[EvilTed]

You are welcome.

Let me know if you need anymore help with the setup.

[strat95]

Chris,

 

The Qnap unit you reviewed gives one the option to also install a video card.  Would doing so make it more responsive when pushing the limits in the way you are using it?

 

There is also another more expensive qnap series, the TVS-1282 that comes with an Intel i7 processor.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, strat95 said:

Chris,

 

The Qnap unit you reviewed gives one the option to also install a video card.  Would doing so make it more responsive when pushing the limits in the way you are using it?

 

There is also another more expensive qnap series, the TVS-1282 that comes with an Intel i7 processor.

The video card would only add more heat to this unit and no benefit because no audio apps running on the QNAP can use GPU offload. 
 

The NAS with i7 May be better but I didn’t really max out the i5. Make sure the generation of the processor and the specs are better, not just the number 5 vs. 7. 

[strat95]

38 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The video card would only add more heat to this unit and no benefit because no audio apps running on the QNAP can use GPU offload. 
 

The NAS with i7 May be better but I didn’t really max out the i5. Make sure the generation of the processor and the specs are better, not just the number 5 vs. 7. 

 

So adding a video card in the Qnap is far different than adding a better video card in a PC like the CAPS 20?  The Qnap can't use the video card for any of the DSP functions?

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

26 minutes ago, strat95 said:

 

So adding a video card in the Qnap is far different than adding a better video card in a PC like the CAPS 20?  The Qnap can't use the video card for any of the DSP functions?

 

 

100% correct. 
 

App developers could change their apps to work with video cards in a QNAP, but as of now it won’t help. 

[strat95]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

100% correct. 
 

App developers could change their apps to work with video cards in a QNAP, but as of now it won’t help. 

Would running a Windows virtual machine on the qnap change that dynamic?

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, strat95 said:

Would running a Windows virtual machine on the qnap change that dynamic?

Possibly. 

[LarryMagoo]

With only 8760 total hours in a year, I simply cannot understand having 22,000 Albums.....but hell why does everything have to make sense...???

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, LarryMagoo said:

With only 8760 total hours in a year, I simply cannot understand having 22,000 Albums.....but hell why does everything have to make sense...???

I love music. 

[Jud]

19 hours ago, LarryMagoo said:

With only 8760 total hours in a year, I simply cannot understand having 22,000 Albums.....but hell why does everything have to make sense...???

 

Know anyone who hasn't read every single book they ever bought? 🙂

[strat95]

 

On 7/27/2020 at 12:25 AM, strat95 said:

Would running a Windows virtual machine on the qnap change that dynamic?

 

On 7/27/2020 at 2:46 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Possibly. 

 

Chris, any chance of testing the QNAP in this manner with a video card to see if it performs better?

 

[Audio_ELF]

Late to this party and this may have been raised, but if using consumer level disks, it’s not recommended to have more than around 12TB array using RAID5 - you should look at RAID6 (two parity disks) to guard against potential problems rebuilding an array. 
 

12TB push beyond the statistical probability of coming across n Unrecoverable Read Error which will cause the rebuilt to fail (of course you might come across such an error after 1GB or not until 36TB of data being read).

[EvilTed]

@Audio_ELF

RAID 6 is not a good strategy either.

Modern disks are > 10TB, which causes longer and longer array rebuild times, sometimes into a week or more.

This statistically puts one at the same type of risk as using RAID 5 with smaller disk sizes as you mention.

 

Most people use RAID 10, which gives way better performance since it doesn't need to build parity disks / slices.

Yes, you give up half the disk space, but hey, nothing in life is free.

[Audio_ELF]

4 minutes ago, EvilTed said:

@Audio_ELF

RAID 6 is not a good strategy either.

Agree: a compromise strategy perhaps should have said.

[emmany]

I just stumbled upon this forum , quite an interesting one .  I’m a bit of a music aficionado myself . I have quite a large Roon library which has been growing perpetually for many years .

 

Tracks : 513,709
Artists :  7768
Albums :  41,199  
Composers : 682

 

 

 

19 TB  in total , a mix of FLAC , ALAC & DSD . The Roon core is hosted on a Dual xeon workstation  ( 70 TB HDD  with the Roon core library running on a seperate SSD , 128 GB RAM , Nvidia GTX 1660 for Plex Transcoding  ) .

All the Networking is through Unifi setup and Roon runs on a seperate vLAN . I also stream Roon remotely via 4G etc , through LT2P VPN .

 

The workstation also runs a Plex server , 2 VM’s , couple of Docker containers and few other miscellaneous apps . The Workstation is configured to RAID 0 and is backed up to another older workstation onsite using ’Syncthing’ . There is a third backup  ‘offsite ‘ , backed up via Syncthing  too ( No.. I’m not paranoid …lol ) .

 

I can see there are so many music connoisseurs here , who are quite fastidious about their setup and its just wonderful to read about their experiences and suggestions . keep on keeping on ! . Cheers . Emmany

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, emmany said:

I just stumbled upon this forum , quite an interesting one .  I’m a bit of a music aficionado myself . I have quite a large Roon library which has been growing perpetually for many years .

 

Tracks : 513,709
Artists :  7768
Albums :  41,199  
Composers : 682

 

 

 

19 TB  in total , a mix of FLAC , ALAC & DSD . The Roon core is hosted on a Dual xeon workstation  ( 70 TB HDD  with the Roon core library running on a seperate SSD , 128 GB RAM , Nvidia GTX 1660 for Plex Transcoding  ) .

All the Networking is through Unifi setup and Roon runs on a seperate vLAN . I also stream Roon remotely via 4G etc , through LT2P VPN .

 

The workstation also runs a Plex server , 2 VM’s , couple of Docker containers and few other miscellaneous apps . The Workstation is configured to RAID 0 and is backed up to another older workstation onsite using ’Syncthing’ . There is a third backup  ‘offsite ‘ , backed up via Syncthing  too ( No.. I’m not paranoid …lol ) .

 

I can see there are so many music connoisseurs here , who are quite fastidious about setup and its  just wonderful to read about their experiences and suggestions . keep on keeping on ! . Cheers . Emmany

 

Love it Emmany!

 

How long does it take Roon to start up when you need to restart it?

[emmany]

24 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Love it Emmany!

 

How long does it take Roon to start up when you need to restart it?

 

 Hi Mate , It takes about 30 to 45 seconds perhaps . It doesn't take too long though , the Dual Xeon workstation is quite a heavy lifter . I loved your article , very insightful and detailed :-) . I'm so glad you find the time and energy to contribute . Perhaps I will read your other contributions in the forum :-) . Cheers . Emmany