Article: Review | Running a Large Roon Library on a QNAP TVS-872XT

[The Computer Audiophile]

21 minutes ago, daverich4 said:

I'm a little surprised at the results you're getting on a machine that I THINK is less capable than mine. I run Roon on a 2014 Mac Mini, 3GHz i7, 16 gig RAM and a 500 gig SSD. I have hundreds of DSD64 files ripped from SACDs and when using Convolution filters made for me by Home Audio Fidelity along with a Low Pass Parametric Filter my setup is just on the edge of not working. When I hit play on a DSD64 file it takes a second or two for the music to start playing. Watching the monitor in Roon it's almost like the music is spooling up. It starts out at about 0.5X and ends up with the music playing at about 1.2X. If I let the music play it's fine for the rest of the album but if I skip a song Roon spools up the music again before continuing on. I just tried playing a DSD64 file and under Convolution Roon says it's using 4 paths and 2984k taps which I believe is far fewer than you said you were using. Everything else about Roon works as expected and I'm very happy with it. Turning off Convolution immediately solves the problem but I much prefer the sound with it on. This too is a First World problem but I wouldn't mind knowing what spec I need to upgrade on my computer to get rid of the delay.

Interesting. Is that convolution filters tap number correct 2984k (2,984,000)? I’m using 66,000 taps. 

[davide256]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I haven’t done that. 
 

Please educate me on what happens when that is done. 

I do that when trying to compare my PC vs NUC as Roon core . Roon allows you 1 licensed/active core per account as default, you can pay for more.

Under settings,general you can see your current selected/active core. If you chose disconnect, it will show you available roon cores to pick from. I just changed from NUC to

PC back to NUC all in the space of 15 seconds from my PC core/client with no library scan impact. I doubt that its a session variable but all it takes is 2 available core instances to test

 

The problem you describe does remind me of issues I had with the Aries mini where the Lightning database would corrupt over time and I would have to periodically delete it. Running

the library maintenance option for Roon is a lot more friendly.

[daverich4]

44 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Interesting. Is that convolution filters tap number correct 2984k (2,984,000)? I’m using 66,000 taps. 

Wow, I missed that. I read it as 2,984 compared to your 66,000 but you’re right, I typed it as Roon has it so I suppose it is 2,984,000. I was going to ask on the Roon forums what I need to do to get over the hump with my settings but your article brought it up before I got that far. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, davide256 said:

I do that when trying to compare my PC vs NUC as Roon core . Roon allows you 1 licensed/active core per account as default, you can pay for more.

Under settings,general you can see your current selected/active core. If you chose disconnect, it will show you available roon cores to pick from. I just changed from NUC to

PC back to NUC all in the space of 15 seconds from my PC core/client with no library scan impact. I doubt that its a session variable but all it takes is 2 available core instances to test

 

The problem you describe does remind me of issues I had with the Aries mini where the Lightning database would corrupt over time and I would have to periodically delete it. Running

the library maintenance option for Roon is a lot more friendly.

I know that I can switch cores, but what does that get me?

[austinpop]

Quote

I like to tweak and eke out every last ounce of performance from the things I understand.

 

@The Computer Audiophile, 

 

Thanks for keeping the beautiful English language alive by correctly using the word eke, and not the abomination eek that seems to have pervaded popular culture. Bravo!

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

@The Computer Audiophile, 

 

Thanks for keeping the beautiful English language alive by correctly using the word eke, and not the abomination eek that seems to have pervaded popular culture. Bravo!

OMG. Someone noticed!

 

Eek made it through my first draft but I caught it just before publication :~)

[austinpop]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

OMG. Someone noticed!

 

Eek made it through my first draft but I caught it just before publication :~)

 

Eek! Good catch.

[bobfa]

8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Bob, I've used QNAP, Synology, FreeNAS, openMediaVault, and many others over the years. In my experience QNAP has the best hardware and equal software to Synology. The others are more DIY solutions that can be equally as valid if the user wants to go that route. Roon installs very easily on QNAP and people can just add to cart if they want to go this route. 

 

Perhaps I need to work on an article for those of us who have fun putting together all the pieces of the puzzle and messing with the software. Roon can be a little harder to install on such devices though. 

 

If someone isn't using Roon core on the NAS, then the options open up even more. 

I think that is a good idea.  I am currently keeping my music on my Qnap NAS and the Roon Core box pulls from there.

[keithsonic]

I had no problems running ROON on a QNAP HS-453 DX with 256gb SSDx2 + 14tb HDDx2 in RAID with 8gb memory. No lag or other issues but maybe this model despite being Celerion based is better optimised for home media. Interestingly, ROON say it shouldn’t work but it did. Did because I ditched ROON pdq as it only recognised about 50% of artists in my database and it’s treatment of artist names in my tags was poor but then again how many iterations of Sun Ra band names can anything cope with.

[davide256]

14 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I know that I can switch cores, but what does that get me?

Neither of us designed/coded Roon so we don't know how it's maintaining/cleaning up session data and session resources. Changing cores is the closest you

can come to a session "logout" to try to force a session cleanup. From your earlier comments reboot of the QNAP clears the problem, shutting down Roon did not,

this is just probing to see if you can find a faster way to clear the problem... won't make it go away but might allow you to clear the problem in seconds, not minutes.

The only gotcha I've found in changing cores is that the Roon authentication server needs to be accessible... don't do this at 2AM when they are doing maintenance.

 A recent Roon backup should protect you if you have the bad luck  that the authentication servers down

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

Neither of us designed/coded Roon so we don't know how it's maintaining/cleaning up session data and session resources. Changing cores is the closest you

can come to a session "logout" to try to force a session cleanup. From your earlier comments reboot of the QNAP clears the problem, shutting down Roon did not,

this is just probing to see if you can find a faster way to clear the problem... won't make it go away but might allow you to clear the problem in seconds, not minutes.

The only gotcha I've found in changing cores is that the Roon authentication server needs to be accessible... don't do this at 2AM when they are doing maintenance.

 A recent Roon backup should protect you if you have the bad luck  that the authentication servers down

OK, now I follow you. 

 

Restarting Roon fixes the issue 90% of the time. I suppose I could also script the Roon restart as well, but the Power Scheduler is too easy and I have no down time since it takes place at 5am. 

[udis]

On 6/12/2020 at 7:20 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Wow. Very similar. 
 

I love my UniFi stuff. USG Pro > fiber > XG 16 > fiber > Sonore opticalRendu. 
 

I turned the USG Pro WAN2 port into LAN so I can run fiber to everything internal. Not sure why they only have SFP ports for the WAN on that router. 

Hi Chris,  Would you happen to have the "how to" link/instructions?

[Hardinge]

@The Computer Audiophile thanks for this review. I’m at my wits end running a large db on nas and a fire in my laptop. Continually rescans the library at the drop of a hat (even though set to 24hr interval) and can’t handle any dsp. 

So your solution is appealing. One question though, would there be any performance or sq hit in your system if you also used the same qnap for general file storage? ie photos movies files etc? To justify the cost i’d be looking for the qnap to run double duties. 

Thanks

[The Computer Audiophile]

9 minutes ago, udis said:

Hi Chris,  Would you happen to have the "how to" link/instructions?

Hi Udis, I'm not sure if there is a how-to on this one, but here are the screens where you can make the changes. 

 

Click on your USG Pro so the right little window pane opens. Then click on the Ports icon. Then click Configure Interfaces.

 

 

 

 

 

Here you can select Port WAN2 network and change it to you LAN or whatever you've named it. Then you are fiber from the router into your entire network. I wish I could the fiber that comes into my house directly into this router and bypass the ONT. CenturyLink isn't up for that they told me. 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

9 minutes ago, Hardinge said:

@The Computer Audiophile thanks for this review. I’m at my wits end running a large db on nas and a fire in my laptop. Continually rescans the library at the drop of a hat (even though set to 24hr interval) and can’t handle any dsp. 

So your solution is appealing. One question though, would there be any performance or sq hit in your system if you also used the same qnap for general file storage? ie photos movies files etc? To justify the cost i’d be looking for the qnap to run double duties. 

Thanks

 

I did many other things on this QNAP while running the Roon core on it and this thing didn't break a sweat and didn't change audio performance at all. I even ran a couple Docker containers and a complete virtual machine with full operating system etc... This thing can handle it. 

[udis]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Udis, I'm not sure if there is a how-to on this one, but here are the screens where you can make the changes. 

 

Click on your USG Pro so the right little window pane opens. Then click on the Ports icon. Then click Configure Interfaces.

 

 

 

 

 

Here you can select Port WAN2 network and change it to you LAN or whatever you've named it. Then you are fiber from the router into your entire network. I wish I could the fiber that comes into my house directly into this router and bypass the ONT. CenturyLink isn't up for that they told me. 

 

 

thank you. I didn't realize I first need to disable the LAN1 port in order to select LAN for WAN2. Which SPF modules are you using to connect the router to switch? 

[The Computer Audiophile]

17 minutes ago, udis said:

thank you. I didn't realize I first need to disable the LAN1 port in order to select LAN for WAN2. Which SPF modules are you using to connect the router to switch? 

Ubiquiti UF-SM-1G-S

 

https://www.amazon.com/U-Fiber-Single-Mode-SFP-1G/dp/B01N4KWOI1

 

 

With this cable- https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01MYOJVKD

[AudioDoctor]

Chris, I am also amazed at the performance you get with the specs on the QNAP considering what I am able to do with my 2011 Mini and HQPlayer, I am basically limited to upsampling to PCM. Above 24/192 gets it working pretty hard too. I am not running any room correction or convolution either.

 

It has me looking for a new device to run my core.

[Jud]

"Back in the day when Amazon offered unlimited storage for less than $100 per year, things were terrific. I just logged into my Amazon account via the QNAP interface and configured it to backup everything to the cloud."

 

Backblaze offers unlimited cloud storage for $60 annually, $110 for 2 years. The unlimited backup isn't as full featured as their B2 backup, but it's plenty good enough for me.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, Jud said:

"Back in the day when Amazon offered unlimited storage for less than $100 per year, things were terrific. I just logged into my Amazon account via the QNAP interface and configured it to backup everything to the cloud."

 

Backblaze offers unlimited cloud storage for $60 annually, $110 for 2 years. The unlimited backup isn't as full featured as their B2 backup, but it's plenty good enough for me.

I believe the Backblaze issue is with restoring content. It must be a manually selected 500Gb at a time.

[AudioDoctor]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Udis, I'm not sure if there is a how-to on this one, but here are the screens where you can make the changes. 

 

Click on your USG Pro so the right little window pane opens. Then click on the Ports icon. Then click Configure Interfaces.

 

 

 

 

 

Here you can select Port WAN2 network and change it to you LAN or whatever you've named it. Then you are fiber from the router into your entire network. I wish I could the fiber that comes into my house directly into this router and bypass the ONT. CenturyLink isn't up for that they told me. 

 

 

 

I have been trying to figure this out for at least a week now.

 

thanks!!!

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, AudioDoctor said:

 

I have been trying to figure this out for at least a week now.

 

thanks!!!

Ya know, you can always ask :~)

[AudioDoctor]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

Ya know, you can always ask :~)

 

I was about to either ask, or throw the damned thing out the window!

[Jud]

40 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I believe the Backblaze issue is with restoring content. It must be a manually selected 500Gb at a time.

 

Yes, that's correct, the free downloadable zip file restore option is limited to 500GB. For $189 you can get a USB HD shipped with up to 8TB.

 

Edit: I have two full backups at home, so my restoration needs have been limited to the very rare case (happened once or twice) where I happened to back up a corrupted file locally.

[LarryMagoo]

I haver never understood people with ridiculous sized libraries.  I have a measly .5 TB and I have stuff I don't remember buying.  How in the hell do you listen to 10-21 TB????     You could not possibly listen to that much music in any ONE lifetime!