Anyone familiar with Unison or USB isolation in General?

[beerandmusic]

 

For my 2nd (or you can even call it my 3rd stereo system), i just want to use my NOISY windows pc without needing any specialty noise optimizing software.

 

Since everyone agrees the digital data gets to the dac via usb perfectly and that the only problem with USB is noise, and that unix or an optimized windows pc will have less noise, my question is, if a dac is engineered properly regarding usb isolation, would it still make a difference whether you used your every day windows pc or a optimized pc if the dac isolates the usb properly?

 

The unison usb markets that no other usb toy (decrapifier) is necessary, as it isolates the usb and it "regenerates" the signal so that the dac gets the bits clean and accurate and with isolation from the +5v as well as the bits.

 

[beerandmusic]

From schiit:: 

The new Unison USB input board features:

1. A completely unique USB input receiver based on a Microchip PIC32 microprocessor with Schiit's proprietary code.
2. Complete electromagnetic and electrostatic isolation.
3. Self-power by the DAC for the critical low-noise re-clocking and latching sections.
4. Precision local clocks for both 44.1 and 48k multiples.

 

Unison USB is Schiit's unique, proprietary USB input that is the result of 2 person-years of development. Running on a general-purpose Microchip microprocessor (rather than a typical XMOS or C-Media solution), Unison USB provides superior UAC2 performance at very low current draw from the host, as well as complete electromagnetic and electrostatic isolation.

"Unison USB is designed to do a single thing, and to do it better than anything else: deliver exceptional PCM audio performance," said Mike Moffat, Schiit's Co-Founder and head of digital development. "As a result, Unison USB is now our preferred input over SPDIF. It's not 'just as good,' or 'close.' It's really better than SPDIF. And yes, that's me saying this, not an alien pod person."

 

[GeneZ]

I installed a Unison card in my Yggy several months ago.  What I hear now sounds very natural and accurate within the limits of my system. It came with an odd default format setting.  I needed to set my Windows 10 Sound @ 16 bit - 44100

 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

On 6/5/2020 at 12:17 PM, beerandmusic said:

"As a result, Unison USB is now our preferred input over SPDIF. It's not 'just as good,' or 'close.' It's really better than SPDIF. And yes, that's me saying this, not an alien pod person."

Good to see Schiit is catching up.... 🙄....I can hear  @sandyk's keyboard.....😜

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

52 minutes ago, GeneZ said:

I needed to set my Windows 10 Sound @ 16 bit - 44100

 

No ASIO driver?

[sandyk]

58 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

On ‎6‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 12:17 PM, beerandmusic said:

"As a result, Unison USB is now our preferred input over SPDIF. It's not 'just as good,' or 'close.' It's really better than SPDIF. And yes, that's me saying this, not an alien pod person."

Good to see Schiit is catching up.... 🙄....I can hear  @sandyk's keyboard.....😜

David

Very few appear to have heard well implemented Coax SPDIF, as many are stuck with  Laptops etc .that NEED to use USB as they don't have a decent Coax SPDIF output or room internally for a decent Soundcard or a Digital Format converter. .

Attached is part of what well implemented Coax SPDIF looks like, and at a tiny fraction of the cost of boutique USB cables or  Digital to Digital converters .

 

 I also doubt that B & M's implementation is very revealing at present as he was unable to  hear the difference between 2 types of player S/W . I tried Yamamoto's player S/W after he mentioned it in a previous post, which also plays from System Memory..

 This is what I reported back to B & M via a PM..

" After reading what you said about Yamamoto's player I just tried it, but I found it rather flat and lifeless with my favourite test track of Jheena Lodwick-Do That to Me One More Time compared with JRiver 26 from System Memory"       

 

[GeneZ]

2 hours ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

No ASIO driver?

 

I do not believe the Unison needs nor would benefit from an ASIO driver.

 

The default Sound Properties settings for format with the Unison would be 32 bits 48000.  I reset it to 16 bit 44100, because that always sounds best in my system with most files.

 

When it sounds good you do not want to fiddle with all those alternative drivers. With other DACs I have had I used to fiddle when available.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

4 minutes ago, GeneZ said:

 

I do not believe the Unison needs nor would benefit from an ASIO driver.

 

The default Sound Properties settings for format with the Unison would be 32 bits 48000.  I reset it to 16 bit 44100, because that always sounds best in my system with most files.

 

When it sounds good you do not want to fiddle with all those alternative drivers. With other DACs I have had I used to fiddle when available.

I'm likely misunderstanding you.

 

All the DACS I have owned have a driver for Windows. I use ASIO to bypass Windows in the audio path as much as possible, that's why I was curious when you said "I needed to set my Windows 10 Sound @ 16 bit - 44100 ". The only thing I do in Win Playback devices is choose the default device, in this case the ASIO driver for the DAC. I play everything at the native rate (JRiver) to in fact minimize fiddling ( HQP is still on my list to try upsampling tho)

[sandyk]

34 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

I'm likely misunderstanding you.

 

All the DACS I have owned have a driver for Windows. I use ASIO to bypass Windows in the audio path as much as possible, that's why I was curious when you said "I needed to set my Windows 10 Sound @ 16 bit - 44100 ". The only thing I do in Win Playback devices is choose the default device, in this case the ASIO driver for the DAC. I play everything at the native rate (JRiver) to in fact minimize fiddling ( HQP is still on my list to try upsampling tho)

 

 I use 24/96 ,as my old highly modified Musical Fidelity X-DAC V3 that I use with my PC only,   has a maximum input of 24/96, although it converts everything to 24 /192

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

43 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 I use 24/96 ,as my old highly modified Musical Fidelity X-DAC V3 that I use with my PC only,   has a maximum input of 24/96, although it converts everything to 24 /192

 

I hope this does not reflect my misunderstanding Alex but the control panel above is only relevant in shared mode (as you tick the "exclusive" boxes.

 

JRiver takes over exclusive control via 1) choosing the sound card ie your DAC in playback devices and then 2) Choosing the desired driver and mode inside of JRiver Tools > Options > Audio > Audio device.

 

Settings for sampling rate and so forth are also there in JRiver driver device and DSP settings.You can choose not to fiddle with Fs but of course can manipulate all you like or for example cap at 96k if thats all your DAC can handle.

 

If you choose the ASIO option for thr driver, thereafter Windows for example has no effect on say Volume and even JRiver Volume control is defeated - totally handed over to the sound card ie DAC

 

 

 

 

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

Settings for sampling rate and so forth are also there in JRiver driver device and DSP settings

They are set there too.

[GeneZ]

12 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

 I use 24/96 ,as my old highly modified Musical Fidelity X-DAC V3 that I use with my PC only,   has a maximum input of 24/96, although it converts everything to 24 /192

 

 

I don't understand something.    All my files in their native format are either 16 bit 44100, or- 16 bit 48000.

 

So when you use that setting something is going to have to upsample the files to play at what you set it.  Its usually the PC that does that.

Is that correct?  You are upsampling by choice?  Unless the file you are playing was recorded in 24/96 it will not be playing as recorded.

[sandyk]

5 hours ago, GeneZ said:

 

I don't understand something.    All my files in their native format are either 16 bit 44100, or- 16 bit 48000.

 

So when you use that setting something is going to have to upsample the files to play at what you set it.  Its usually the PC that does that.

Is that correct?  You are upsampling by choice?  Unless the file you are playing was recorded in 24/96 it will not be playing as recorded.

 Yes, I upsample by choice as I listen to a lot of different material, including Video at  16/48 ,not just 16/44.1, as well as 24/96 and 24/192.

[GeneZ]

3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Yes, I upsample by choice as I listen to a lot of different material, including Video at  16/48 ,not just 16/44.1, as well as 24/96 and 24/192.

I suppose It will depend upon one's system.  But,  whenever I match the format that the audio was made in to the format setting in the software feeding the DAC, it always sounds the most relaxed and natural.  When ever I upsample in the software feeding the DAC, it begins to sound more digital.  Like I said... it depends on one's system and ears. 

[sandyk]

8 minutes ago, GeneZ said:

When ever I upsample in the software feeding the DAC, it begins to sound more digital.  Like I said... it depends on one's system and ears. 

 If it sounds more "digital" then it is usually due to added noise due to the extra processing . The quieter the PC is electrically, the better it sounds,even with conversion from .flac.

That is why I also further improve the power to my 2 internal SSDs , regulating their power down from +12V to a very low noise (<4uV)  +5V with improved isolation from the main supply.

[GeneZ]

8 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 If it sounds more "digital" then it is usually due to added noise due to the extra processing . The quieter the PC is electrically, the better it sounds,even with conversion from .flac.

That is why I also further improve the power to my 2 internal SSDs , regulating their power down from +12V to a very low noise (<4uV)  +5V with improved isolation from the main supply.

  If the file calls for 24/192?   I can set it that way, and it sounds clean.  It the upsampling that causes the problem. My PC is very quiet.

 

Someone I know who made and modded DACs told me he experimented and found good old 144100 to sound the best with files calling for it.  I tried it and found it to be true with two different PC's and several DACs.  Maybe its just me. 

[sandyk]

11 minutes ago, GeneZ said:

  If the file calls for 24/192?   I can set it that way, and it sounds clean.  It the upsampling that causes the problem. My PC is very quiet.

 

Someone I know who made and modded DACs told me he experimented and found good old 144100 to sound the best with files calling for it.  I tried it and found it to be true with two different PC's and several DACs.  Maybe its just me. 

That hasn't been my experience, other than with extremely high quality 16/44.1 .wav files to start with, and my old X-DAC V3 upsamples everything to 24 /192 which also permits more relaxed filtering due to the artifacts being pushed up higher.

Don't forget that we also have many members who also upsample 16/44.1 much higher to DSD.

[GeneZ]

3 minutes ago, sandyk said:

That hasn't been my experience, other than with extremely high quality 16/44.1 .wav files to start with, and my old X-DAC V3 upsamples everything to 24 /192 which also permits more relaxed filtering due to the artifacts being pushed up higher.

Don't forget that we also have many members who also upsample 16/44.1 much higher to DSD.

  Well that's good to know. For my  16/44.1 listening has been clean, transparent, and relaxing on most files...

 

It was not always that way though. Some good-reputation chip DACs I had were fatiguing to listen to.  They would sound more exciting than life, but fatiguing.   It did not matter which format I set it at. So, it may not be the file. It may be the DAC itself. 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

To be honest I would be wary about Windows doing the upsampling.

 

Alex, as I use USB not spdif I am wondering about drivers in general and exclusive control. Does your spdif pass thru sound card come with a driver with various options like ASIO. When you play music does the Windows volume control or the JRiver volume control have any influence on the Volume?

 

[sandyk]

17 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

To be honest I would be wary about Windows doing the upsampling.

 

Alex, as I use USB not spdif I am wondering about drivers in general and exclusive control. Does your spdif pass thru sound card come with a driver with various options like ASIO. When you play music does the Windows volume control or the JRiver volume control have any influence on the Volume?

 

David

Yes, I am using an ASIO driver. The Windows volume control is bypassed, as well as all sounds turned off too.

I don't use the JRiver volume control.

I am just using belt and braces .

 

Alex

 

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

9 minutes ago, sandyk said:

David

Yes, I am using an ASIO driver. The Windows volume control is bypassed, as well as all sounds turned off too.

I don't use the JRiver volume control.

I am just using belt and braces .

 

Alex

 

 

Oh Ok, in that case the Windows Volume and JRiver Digital Volume should both be bypassed ie could be on mute and you will still get sound controlled by your pre-amp. It would be interesting to see if that is the case with both the Asus Xonar and JRiver volume settings.

[sandyk]

12 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

Oh Ok, in that case the Windows Volume and JRiver Digital Volume should both be bypassed ie could be on mute and you will still get sound controlled by your pre-amp. It would be interesting to see if that is the case with both the Asus Xonar and JRiver volume settings.

 

I still have full volume with JRiver 26 volume turned right down.

[Audiophile Neuroscience]

8 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

I still have full volume with JRiver 26 volume turned right down.

I also have full volume with all Windows volumes, including master volume or anything in the volume mixer dialed to zero.

[GeneZ]

Some here are talking about SPDIF, I see....   I came here to talk about the new Schiit USB card for its YGGY.  I see now that the title of the thread covers more than just the Unison USB.   All I can say, all I have been saying pertains to the YGGY with the new Unison USB card... I am hearing the closest thing I ever heard to analogue, but with much better detail than analogue. 

Moffatt at Schiit is now saying he prefers the Unison over SPDIF.   Having never heard SPDIF other than optical?  I  must say what I hear now is most excellent.