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Is USB straight from a Mac computer to a DAC really that bad?


audiophile911

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1 hour ago, beerandmusic said:

 

Do you agree that the only thing that is sent from the usb to the dac is:

a) digital music (most everyone agrees that this digital data is received accurately)

b) reference voltage

c) noise

Noise and distortion with any current DAC is going to be below the level of real-world audibility. That's why ASR's SINAD measurements are worse than useless (i.e. misleading) for judging sound quality.

 

Timing is more important than noise, which is where current USB beats SPDIF, and also why USB treatments with reclocking, improved power supply, etc, usually improve the sound. But not all systems benefit from something between the transport and DAC. It depends on the DAC, digital transport and USB treatment.

 

PS You seem very high on the Schiit Unison. IMO it's more likely that their past USB implementation was substandard, and has only now caught up. I don't know any of the technical details, I'm only looking at their previous statements, that SPDIF sounded better than USB. That is never how it should be with a proper USB implementation.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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On 6/7/2020 at 6:27 AM, beerandmusic said:

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5971esp...I can confidently state that you’ve never heard a timbral or fidelity change when connecting a digital source and a destination using a USB cable.  (with crc errors, you may get glitch, but unlikely, and you would hear it as a dropout, not as change in sq).

I disagree, and I believe so do most of the people on this website. I'm not sure why you are still here belaboring this point. If that's what you believe, just buy AnyDAC and be happy. 

 

This is an old article but the basic principles hold up today, IMO.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0509/

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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On 6/7/2020 at 6:27 AM, beerandmusic said:

 

Very informative regarding what I am speaking about:::

 

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5971

 

esp...I can confidently state that you’ve never heard a timbral or fidelity change when connecting a digital source and a destination using a USB cable.  (with crc errors, you may get glitch, but unlikely, and you would hear it as a dropout, not as change in sq).

 

I agree that lost bits will cause a pop or dropout. Lost bits are not the reason that digital systems sound different. You really should take ten minutes to read the article I linked, it explains jitter and its various origins extremely well. For example:

6. Power subsystem
The DC power applied to each of the devices that must process or transmit the digital audio signal is critical. If this power varies in voltage, the devices will react differently to the applied digital signals. Power "noise" as it is referred to is probably one of the largest contributors to jitter. Voltage changes or "voltage droop" can happen anywhere on a circuit board, power cabling, or even on the silicon itself. Changes in power voltage will change the speed and reaction times of digital logic that is transmitting the digital signals resulting in jitter.

8. Digital Cables
Cables don't actively add jitter to the signal, however they can slow the signal transitions or "edges". When the edges are slowed, the receiver or buffer at the cable destination is less likely to detect the transition at the correct time with certainty, which results in jitter.

10. Printed circuit board effects
There are at least two effects on a circuit board that can cause jitter, including signal crosstalk and ground-bounce. Crosstalk occurs when traces with high-speed signals are spaced closely. One signal induces voltage on the other signal. It is obvious how this can add to jitter. Ground-bounce occurs when the signal return current see a high-impedance on the circuit board due to ground-plane splits or long return paths. This creates a voltage drop in the ground-plane or return path. This voltage drop causes the signal to shift in voltage, which can result in jitter.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0509/

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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5 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

But it is still my contention that a well designed dac should compensate for this....and to be honest, i do believe the unison does this quite well.  They market that it provides it's own 5v reference, that it is galvanically isolated the usb, and that it reclocks.

 

I have been griping since several years back ago, that DACs should be designed to compensate for any noise on the usb bus, I think the unison finally does that. 

If you think that the Unison is the answer to perfect USB playback, you should get the $199 Modius.

 

Of course I am being facetious, there's a lot more to a DAC than the USB implementation.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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2 minutes ago, davide256 said:

what I've experienced is that timing degradation in the source causes background instruments to lose definition

The main timing degradation for me is poor PRaT. I had a CD transport and DAC with separate clock link. Disconnecting the clock link caused no difference in tonality, but the music became boring. Instead of being riveted to the music, my attention wandered. No boogie factor, or in Linn terms, no foot-tapping.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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