Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[JohnSwenson]

2 hours ago, mfaoro said:

Alright. My understanding of the moat idea is sketchy at best. Im thinking about buying a Mutec Clock. It has its own, internal LPS so it would be plugged into my power conditioner. Does the following sketch break the moat in the ER that is connected to my Nucleus and Linn DSM?

 

Red=power, Green=network/clock connections

 

I'm confused about the "upper" EtherRegen connections in the diagram. The ER has two "sides", the A and B, the moat is in between them. The optical connection is on the A side and the clock is on the B side. The power connection is on the A side. You show three "signal" connections, what ports are you connecting these to? The optical port is on the A side, the best connections should be the nucleus on the A side as well and the DSM on the B side. I hope this is how you have things connected. The clock connection is on the B side, the best use of it is with the B side jack going to the DSM.

 

If this is how you have things connected you should be fine with this configuration, no single supply is powering devices on opposite sides of the moat.

 

John S.

[LewinskiH01]

5 hours ago, mfaoro said:

Alright. My understanding of the moat idea is sketchy at best. Im thinking about buying a Mutec Clock. It has its own, internal LPS so it would be plugged into my power conditioner. Does the following sketch break the moat in the ER that is connected to my Nucleus and Linn DSM?

 

Red=power, Green=network/clock connections

 

 

Wanted to ask you about the purpose of the OpticalModule in-between eRs. Why do this vs fiber from eR1 to eR2?

Which "LPS3" do you use to power eR+cable modem?

 

Regards

[Mihaylov]

Fresh product from BG7TBL. And again the new OCXO. Does anyone have specifications of this oscillator?

 

 

 

 

 

[R1200CL]

……and how does it sound ? 😂

[Mihaylov]

ER is still in transit. 

[dbastin]

Sorry, I dont have time read 62 pages, so pls redirect me if this has been covered already..

 

Has anyone who has daisy chained 2 ERs put Master Clock on both?  And if so, what degree of benefit was gained with adding the 2nd Master Clock?

[mourip]

Doing a search on "daisy chained 2 ER" comes up with a number of hits.

 

Doing a search is fast and will also tell others that you at least put in a bit of effort but leading with "I don't have time read 62 pages" is usually not a good way to inspire others to help.

 

[dbastin]

42 minutes ago, mourip said:

Doing a search on "daisy chained 2 ER" comes up with a number of hits

Thanks for highlighting my previous posts.  I had searched a bit but no sign of success.

[Iving]

1 hour ago, dbastin said:

Has anyone who has daisy chained 2 ERs put Master Clock on both?  And if so, what degree of benefit was gained with adding the 2nd Master Clock?

 

Although not empirical, this post is relevant. In it, it’s implicit that Adrian considers 2 ERs + 1 Mutec more “obvious” than 1 ER + 2 Mutecs! I’d be interested to know what @AfterDark. and @mourip think of this conundrum - maybe even @Superdad - whether empirical or mere opinion. I, for one, have a spare output on my AD Triple. In my system, I imagine a second re-clocking Mutec would be more “obvious” than a second ER. Ancillary consideration – there’d be no point in daisying 2 ERs unless the integrity of the serial moats was optimised.

[AfterDark.]

29 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

Although not empirical, this post is relevant. In it, it’s implicit that Adrian considers 2 ERs + 1 Mutec more “obvious” than 1 ER + 2 Mutecs! I’d be interested to know what @AfterDark. and @mourip think of this conundrum - maybe even @Superdad - whether empirical or mere opinion. I, for one, have a spare output on my AD Triple. In my system, I imagine a second re-clocking Mutec would be more “obvious” than a second ER. Ancillary consideration – there’d be no point in daisying 2 ERs unless the integrity of the serial moats was optimised.

 

 

Hi! Iving,

 

We have planned to purchase another Mutec MC3 (with or without USB) to cascade with the existing Mutec MC-3+USB. Both unit will be moded, the connection will be AES output (First Mutec MC-3+USB) then 2nd unit will connected to AES Input, both units optimise with 10M Master Clock. Then final AES output will connect to DAC. This should improve like addeding a reclock device, we expected music will be more refined. 

 

For Cascade ER, we have some experiences with a customer using MSB Reference DAC, he is quite impress with the perfromance. The cascade of ERs optimised 10M Master Clock makes his MSB DAC to the other levels. So Cascade Mutec should brings improvement too. 

 

 

 

 

Best Regards,

Adrian

AfterDark. 

[PYP]

2 hours ago, dbastin said:

Sorry, I dont have time read 62 pages, so pls redirect me if this has been covered already..

 

Has anyone who has daisy chained 2 ERs put Master Clock on both?  And if so, what degree of benefit was gained with adding the 2nd Master Clock?

From reading their setups long ago, there are folks who use 2 ERs and both are clocked; however, iirc they have not commented on the benefit of the second clock only.  Given that adding a second ER has been described on a continuum of "meh" to "was a bigger change than adding the first ER," it is clear that generalizing across systems isn't reliable.  That same principle would apply to clocks.  

 

Personally, I use two ERs but only the second (just before the DAC) uses an external clock.  Sounds very, very good and adding the second ER, for whatever reason, was a large change.  I prefer as simple a setup as possible, therefore only the second ER gets all the attention (clock, LPS, upgraded DC cable).  

[dbastin]

I imagine using a Master Clock for both 1 x ER + DAC is an improvement over only using Master Clock for 1 x ER.

 

Equally, there would be benefit using Master Clock with 1 x ER + 1 x Mutec in series.

 

However, in these cases the clock is applied to 2 different tasks.  Whereas I am wondering if Master clock applied to 2 x ERs in series (ie. Both applied to ethernet) would there be an improvement over applying Master Clock to only one of 2 x ERs in series.

 

In my experience, without Master Clock, 2 x ERs in series is an obvious improvement compared to using just 1 ER.  It begs the question if 2 x ERs in series is better/worse than only 1 ER but with a Master Clock.  I posed this question previously and don't recall there was a clear answer.

[R1200CL]

4 hours ago, dbastin said:

Has anyone who has daisy chained 2 ERs put Master Clock on both?

I think it’s important to state how this is done:

A>B>A>B and also what’s connected to last output. And If fiber and what type is involved, including SFP’s in use. 

A side out with fiber, may be different than B side out. 
 

Also what power supplies is in use. 
 

B>A>A>B

B>A>B>A

A>B>B>A

 

Switch upfront as well. 

It may be so that an optialModule first will achieve same results.

 

If one is going to the extreme of dual EtherRegen with individual quality power upfront plus’s dual clocks, also with quality individual power upfront, it’s staring to get expensive. And you can spend a lot of money in cabling as well. 
 

 

 

[magnuska]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

I think it’s important to state how this is done:

A>B>A>B and also what’s connected to last output. And If fiber and what type is involved, including SFP’s in use. 

A side out with fiber, may be different than B side out. 
 

Also what power supplies is in use. 
 

B>A>A>B

B>A>B>A

A>B>B>A

 

Switch upfront as well. 

It may be so that an optialModule first will achieve same results.

 

If one is going to the extreme of dual EtherRegen with individual quality power upfront plus’s dual clocks, also with quality individual power upfront, it’s staring to get expensive. And you can spend a lot of money in cabling as well. 
 

 

 

I used to have Optical module before my ER. Sold it cause it made no real difference. Adding the Adark masterclock made a big difference in the right direction. Adding another switch from Adark with OXCO made perhaps the biggest difference so far. I have read somewhere that cascading switches of different designs/brands would be best.  Adding a betterLAN cable would never be as good as adressing the major problems with network noise. Maybe the new Waversa Lan isolator or ENO Ag in series with a ER could also be as good? Many options nowadays!!

[Oggo]

9 hours ago, dbastin said:

Sorry, I dont have time read 62 pages, so pls redirect me if this has been covered already..

 

Has anyone who has daisy chained 2 ERs put Master Clock on both?  And if so, what degree of benefit was gained with adding the 2nd Master Clock?

 

 

I tested the BG7TBL (build for ER with 3 square wave outputs) on 1 ER and on 2 daisy-chained ER with Blue Jeans cables and Zerozone LPS. Sound was clearly degraded in both cases, so I took the BG7TBL out of my audio chain and kept the 2 daisy-chained ER.

 

ER run a>b>a>b.

[R1200CL]

9 hours ago, Oggo said:

 

 

I tested the BG7TBL (build for ER with 3 square wave outputs) on 1 ER and on 2 daisy-chained ER with Blue Jeans cables and Zerozone LPS. Sound was clearly degraded in both cases, so I took the BG7TBL out of my audio chain and kept the 2 daisy-chained ER.

 

ER run a>b>a>b.

The reason for this is most likely cause the clock is braking the moat if used several places. If the clock didn’t help only on one EtherRegen, I can understand you’re not tempted to try the AfterDark clock. Thanks for sharing. There is another poster here, that didn’t hear any difference either with Adark queen. 
 

In my system the AfterDark clock is best used on a Singxer SU-2. I’m trying to purchase a second clock from Adrian, to be used at my EtherRegen, as a T splitter wasn’t a good option. 

[Johnnydev]

21 hours ago, PYP said:

Personally, I use two ERs but only the second (just before the DAC) uses an external clock.  Sounds very, very good and adding the second ER, for whatever reason, was a large change.  I prefer as simple a setup as possible, therefore only the second ER gets all the attention (clock, LPS, upgraded DC cable).  

I have exactly the same, with great results

[mourip]

23 hours ago, Iving said:

 

Although not empirical, this post is relevant. In it, it’s implicit that Adrian considers 2 ERs + 1 Mutec more “obvious” than 1 ER + 2 Mutecs! I’d be interested to know what @AfterDark. and @mourip think of this conundrum - maybe even @Superdad - whether empirical or mere opinion. I, for one, have a spare output on my AD Triple. In my system, I imagine a second re-clocking Mutec would be more “obvious” than a second ER. Ancillary consideration – there’d be no point in daisying 2 ERs unless the integrity of the serial moats was optimised.

 

 

I have been very happy with my current setup of an ER and a Mutec USB, both clocked by a REF10. To be honest in order of priority I would put money either into what is feeding the ER or a better DAC before doubling up on the connecting devices. If you already have a reference level front end and a reference level DAC and lots of cash then I can certainly see the experimentation being fun.

[lxgreen]

I found no improvement using an AfterDark queen clock with EtherRegen so returned it.

[Iving]

24 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

I have been very happy with my current setup of an ER and a Mutec USB, both clocked by a REF10. To be honest in order of priority I would put money either into what is feeding the ER or a better DAC before doubling up on the connecting devices. If you already have a reference level front end and a reference level DAC and lots of cash then I can certainly see the experimentation being fun.

 

Your approach always makes a lot of sense to me Paul.

eR is about £600.

Mutec MC-3+ USB is about £8-850.

My DAC is a Convert-2. I'm very happy with it. I don't see my changing it until/unless some hypothetical awakening regards DSP/heavy CPU work for HQP. (That said, I'm appreciating HQP for PCM @ 176.4 thru to the Convert-2.) It would be a major transformation involving PC overhaul to upgrade my DAC. Plus if I sold it I'd take a hit. Long and short - DAC upgrade for me would be a new Chapter and big bucks - if it ever happens. I'd probably invest in a good record deck with the same money.

I could spend eR/Mutec type money on my PC front end. e.g. feed CPU independently from my PH SR7T which would entail a new PS for the eR. Or a JCAT Net Card/XE to replace my Intel X540-T2 +/or further PS for that.

I think a second Mutec reclocker would come first - with LPS mods + LPSs for both Mutecs. And maybe mod my RedNet too + PS. (You moved on from RedNet iirc?). In the context of the post to which I replied, I'd go for 2 Mutecs rather than 2 eRs to use up the spare output on my AD Triple - and I'd be happy with that unless my ears told me otherwise.

I thought Alex might come out of the woodwork, taking the opportunity to declare his new Uptone super-filter-timer-power supply thingy - probably generating a SQ advantage of more than 2 eRs anyway. No chance of that then ;-)

[R1200CL]

44 minutes ago, Iving said:

I think a second Mutec reclocker would come first

Couldn't a Singxer SU-2 serve the same purpose at a lover price. Notice it have 10Mhz clock in. 

[Iving]

4 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Couldn't a Singxer SU-2 serve the same purpose at a lover price. Notice it have 10Mhz clock in. 

 

No USB in my system - yay. My reclocker requires AES in/out en route RedNet D16 AES to DAC.

2 Mutecs has had a strong reputation for some years now - esp. known to RedNet users. It's a safe bet. They say diminishing returns after 2 ... ;-)

[richard_crl032]

3 minutes ago, lxgreen said:

I can’t tell you frustrating it has been to deal with a Chinese company that doesn’t  completely understand English and extraordinarily difficult to get get them to respond to my complaints

 

Hmmmh ... Adrian speaks and write perfect English and he is in HongKong which is not exactly a true blue mainland Chinese province ... more cosmopolitan than many many western states, counties or villages.

 

Hope misunderstanding will be sorted out soon.

 

Cheers.

[R1200CL]

@lxgreen

But you shipped everything back already without an accept from Adrian ?

[richard_crl032]

1 hour ago, mourip said:

 

I have been very happy with my current setup of an ER and a Mutec USB, both clocked by a REF10. To be honest in order of priority I would put money either into what is feeding the ER or a better DAC before doubling up on the connecting devices. If you already have a reference level front end and a reference level DAC and lots of cash then I can certainly see the experimentation being fun.

A mutec ref10, an AD triples and 2x ERs with presumably some nice LPS and cablings usd7-10k ?? 

 

Hope player/server is in the league of usd15 Antipodes K50 or at least usd10k as well as an reference DAC already of same expense .. else I cannot fathom the expenses of getting streaming route optimised before components.

 

Cheers.