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Master Clock for your EtherREGEN


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Sorry, means I will pay usd33 more for the Talema unsealed one and forget about it.

 

Others more learned here can shared their tots.

 

Cheers.

Revel Salon 2 speakers, Sander Magtech amp, Audible Illusion L3B (Blackgate) preamp, Denafrips Terminator Plus dac, Denafrips Hermes ddc, Antipodes CX/EX/P1/P2 server/player (Oladra upgraded), Denafrips Avatar cdp, Bel Canto fm1 tuner, Airties Wireless Mesh, ifi Blue Zen BT receiver, 2X Uptone EtherRegen + AfterDark Emperor Double Crown 10M clock, Zerozone 5/7.5/12v LPS, Uptone LPS 1.2, 2x diy 2kVA Isotransformers, dedicated 20/30A lines for separate digital/analog, Nordost Quattro Fil interconnects, Acoustic Revive TripleC Ethernet/i2S cables, Cardas Clear speaker cable and jumpers, Zonotone Shupreme/5050 powercords, Garrard 301 on slate plinth/sme 3012R/Ortofon Classic GM mk2/diy 301 motor PSU/graham IC90/kimber tak ag etc./Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk2+Golden Reference PSU/Grado FreeSystem fg-1 headphones

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Two is Not Better Than One!

 

So I have two clocks, one CyberShaft and one Mutec. Have been using the Mutec for the ER for some time. The Cybershaft was powered (to keep it warmed up and stabilized) but otherwise sitting idle unconnected.

 

The other day I accidentally disconnected the power to the Cybershaft and noticed a jump in audio clarity - basically the proverbial veil being lifted kind of thing. Initially I was not aware of the real cause and just attributed it to less AC noise on Sunday. But later after carefully tracing the wiring I realized that the reason is due to powering down the Cybershaft. The veil would return if I power up the Cybershaft again.

 

This suggests that the idling Cybershaft is somehow interfering with the system, causing the degradation in sound quality. The Cybershaft is sitting atop the Mutec with its output unconnected so I guess that contributes to the interference. This also cast questions on tests comparing multiple clocks as they may in fact interfere with one another when powered on simultaneously.

 

If you have more than one clock you may want to experiment with this, just in case.

 

 

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2 hours ago, _JL_ said:

Two is Not Better Than One!

 

So I have two clocks, one CyberShaft and one Mutec. Have been using the Mutec for the ER for some time. The Cybershaft was powered (to keep it warmed up and stabilized) but otherwise sitting idle unconnected.

 

The other day I accidentally disconnected the power to the Cybershaft and noticed a jump in audio clarity - basically the proverbial veil being lifted kind of thing. Initially I was not aware of the real cause and just attributed it to less AC noise on Sunday. But later after carefully tracing the wiring I realized that the reason is due to powering down the Cybershaft. The veil would return if I power up the Cybershaft again.

 

This suggests that the idling Cybershaft is somehow interfering with the system, causing the degradation in sound quality. The Cybershaft is sitting atop the Mutec with its output unconnected so I guess that contributes to the interference. This also cast questions on tests comparing multiple clocks as they may in fact interfere with one another when powered on simultaneously.

 

If you have more than one clock you may want to experiment with this, just in case.

 

 

 

You sure don't want a component placed right over a different component. Of course, there could be more to it.

Stereo

[Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 3]
Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350]


Surround

[Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2  + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] 

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2 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

You sure don't want a component placed right over a different component. Of course, there could be more to it.

 

True but I ran out of rack space long time ago so no choice for now. The CyberShaft is on top of the Mutec even when not powered so the difference is not due to stacking.

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18 hours ago, _JL_ said:

Two is Not Better Than One!

 

So I have two clocks, one CyberShaft and one Mutec. Have been using the Mutec for the ER for some time. The Cybershaft was powered (to keep it warmed up and stabilized) but otherwise sitting idle unconnected.

 

The other day I accidentally disconnected the power to the Cybershaft and noticed a jump in audio clarity - basically the proverbial veil being lifted kind of thing. Initially I was not aware of the real cause and just attributed it to less AC noise on Sunday. But later after carefully tracing the wiring I realized that the reason is due to powering down the Cybershaft. The veil would return if I power up the Cybershaft again.

 

This suggests that the idling Cybershaft is somehow interfering with the system, causing the degradation in sound quality. The Cybershaft is sitting atop the Mutec with its output unconnected so I guess that contributes to the interference. This also cast questions on tests comparing multiple clocks as they may in fact interfere with one another when powered on simultaneously.

 

If you have more than one clock you may want to experiment with this, just in case.

 

 

Which Mutec do you have and what do you think of it? Sound quality of Mutec vs Cybershaft?

FRONT END: Analog: Radikal Linn LP12 > Linn Urika 2 phono stage. Sound: Linn Klimax Organik DSM > Linn Duo amp >Maggie 3.7i  Wires + Power: Transparent: Reference Speaker, XL Power Conditioner + XL Power Cords. Furutech NFC Rhodium outlet on 10 gauge dedicated circuit with isolated ground Isolation: HRS SXR stand, M3X2 Bases. 
 

Connected to back end by: Transparent Ethernet 

 

BACK END: Digital: Internet > OpticalModule > EtherREGEN < AD Queen Squarewave Clock < Roon Nucleus + (internal 7TB SSD music library) Isolation: Salamander Archetype rack, HRS M3X2 base the under Nucleus, ER,Stillpoints under all others Power: Paul Hynes SR7T > Clock, Nucleus. SR7T > ER & OpticalModule, SR4 > Switch. Furutech NFC Rhodium outlet on 10 gauge dedicated circuit with isolated ground 

 

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3 hours ago, FIndingit said:

Mutec is particular about their steel enclosure, because of possible disturbances. What is the Cybershaft enclosure made of, aluminium?

The Cybershaft enclosure is made of aluminum I believe. It's much lighter than the Mutec FWIW.

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3 hours ago, mfaoro said:

Which Mutec do you have and what do you think of it? Sound quality of Mutec vs Cybershaft?

I have the Mutec SE120 and the CyberShaft is OP17. I compared them quite some time ago (was waiting for the Cybershaft to run-in). The main difference at the time was in clarity, i.e., resolution, transparency and air. This is probably not a fair comparison as the Mutec is 3x more expensive. 

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Hi guys! Sorry for the off-topic as this thread is focused on etherRegen, but as I have read some of you are using the Mutec MC3+USB with an external 10Mhz clock, I just wanted to know if the internal jumper JP1 in the MC3+USB has to be changed from the default manufacturer position "2" (75 ohm termination) to "1" (no termination) to connect an external clock.

My clock is Giesemann Double Crown.

 

Thank you very much in advance!. Any help will be appreciated!

 

Best,

jm

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29 minutes ago, jmmbarco said:

Hi guys! Sorry for the off-topic as this thread is focused on etherRegen, but as I have read some of you are using the Mutec MC3+USB with an external 10Mhz clock, I just wanted to know if the internal jumper JP1 in the MC3+USB has to be changed from the default manufacturer position "2" (75 ohm termination) to "1" (no termination) to connect an external clock.

My clock is Giesemann Double Crown.

 

Thank you very much in advance!. Any help will be appreciated!

 

Best,

jm

 

I don't think the jumper needs to be changed. It should be terminated at the MC3+ unless you're daisy chaining the clock to other devices (at which point only one should be terminated). 

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34 minutes ago, jmmbarco said:

Hi guys! Sorry for the off-topic as this thread is focused on etherRegen, but as I have read some of you are using the Mutec MC3+USB with an external 10Mhz clock, I just wanted to know if the internal jumper JP1 in the MC3+USB has to be changed from the default manufacturer position "2" (75 ohm termination) to "1" (no termination) to connect an external clock.

My clock is Giesemann Double Crown.

 

Thank you very much in advance!. Any help will be appreciated!

 

Best,

jm

 

First - in several references the manual here boasts capacity to lock to ext. 10 MHz clock and never mentions jumpers.

 

 

Second – my AD Triple clocks both an ER and a Mutec MC-3+ USB which in my case is both Re-Clocker and WC. The relevant part of the manual reads (p.22 – my bold):

 

»EXTERN« & »RE-CLK« (Externally referenced Audio re-clocking) This is a very unique feature that is only available in your MC-3+ Smart Clock USB! After selecting the first re-clocking mode, press the »SELECT« key once again and the »EXTERN« and »RE-CLK« will light up to indicate that re-clocking based on an externally applied clock reference is now active. Per default setting, »USB-PCM« and »USB-DSD/DoP« are selected as the first available audio reference (the first three LEDs in the column are illuminated). Press the »MENU« key once to access the »RE-FERENCE« menu and toggle the »SELECT« key to choose one of the four available audio references: USB (PCM & DSD/DoP), AES3/11, S/P-DIF op, S/P-DIF bnc.Please note: the system will however expect an external re-clocking reference at the »WCLK & 1-10M IN« BNC input on the rear in this mode. If this reference is not provided, the re-clocking process will not be active. Possible re-clocking references are:Word Clock 32.0 kHz – 192.0 kHz 1.0, 2.5, 5.0, 10.0 MHz. If both a valid audio and a re-clocking reference have been applied, the blue lock LEDs »MAIN REF« and »RE-CLK REF« in the »STATUS« section will light up and the re-clocking process will be started. The sampling rate of the incoming digital audio signal will be displayed in the »CLOCK IN« section of the front panel. The Word Clock output signals can be multiplied using the »CLOCK MULTIPLIERS« menu as described in the »Selecting Clock Multipliers« section. Selecting one of these externally referenced re-clocking options enables re-clocking a digital audio signal with an external clock reference of a peripheral master clock generator. In all cases, the converted digital audio and Word Clock signals will have the same sampling rate as the digital audio source. However, there is no phase lock between input and output signals in this mode!

 

I can confirm that everything described here (including all the lovely lights) happens without altering jumpers.

My digital system is wired ethernet (RedNet/Dante) but strictly offline. I don't download or stream music from the internet.

System here

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Thank you very much _JL_ and Lving for your comments. I think _JL_ got the clue. All SPDIF/AES are 75/110 ohm terminated but only the wordclock & 10M input is switchable. This is probably for daisy chaning the same clock reference across multiple devices where the last one should be 75ohm terminated.

Thanks again!

 

Best,

jm

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On 7/18/2021 at 12:14 PM, Iving said:

Second – my AD Triple clocks both an ER and a Mutec MC-3+ USB which in my case is both Re-Clocker and WC. The relevant part of the manual reads (p.22 – my bold):

Hi ,

 

I am also using an AD Giesemann clock for my etherregen .

I am planning to add a Mutec mc3 usb to my system .

 

Which device are you using to split the clock signal of you AD clock ?

Have you any negative impact from using a such device ? 

 

PCserver Supermicro X11SAA under Daphile  ,Jcat pcie net card ,Etherregen,e-red dock endpoint,powered by LPS 1.2 , SPS 500 , Sean Jacobs level 3 psu,  DAC Audiomat Maestro 3, Nagra Classic Amp , Hattor passive preamplifier , Martin Logan montis

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53 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

Which device are you using to split the clock signal of you AD clock ?

He is using this: 

**AfterDark Triple Emperor Double Crown 75Ω Square Wave 10 MHz Clock

It is a AD Emperor Douuble Crown with 3 Separate clock outputs.

Euphony Summus Server w/ a Kecces P-8A Ultra Linear PS (used for my Roon Core). Custom HDPlex Server using a Gigabyte Designare Z390 MB, i9 9900K Processor, Apacer Mem and a DarkForce Audiophile NVMe Drive for Euphony. Keces P8 Ultra LPS powering a Tailko dcatx and a HDPlex H5 Case. Bryston BP-26 Preamp, Bryston BDA-3 Dac, Bryston 4B Cubed Amp, Sonore Sig Rendu SE, Sonore Optical Module Deluxe w/ a Uptone LPS-1.2. Uptone Audio EtherRegen w/ a Your Final System LPS. After Dark Queen Square Wave Clock w/ a Uptone LPS-1.2. Clearaudio Champion TT Level 1, JLTI Phono Stage, Totem Acoustic Mani-2 Sigs. Silversmith Audio XLR Cables to Amp, Audio Magic Interconnect, Speaker and Power Cables, Sablon 2020 USB Cable & AfterDark Ethernet Cables & Monoprice Cat 8 cables.

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1 hour ago, jean-michel6 said:

Which device are you using to split the clock signal of you AD clock

 

1 hour ago, BCRich said:

He is using this:  Triple 

 

Correct. Try asking @MartinT who had same problem at one point.

My digital system is wired ethernet (RedNet/Dante) but strictly offline. I don't download or stream music from the internet.

System here

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I don't any more as I now have two clocks, one for each of the ER and Mutec.

TP-Link MR6400 4G router > Uptone EtherREGEN reclocker > Sonore ultraRendu streamer > Mutec MC-3+ USB reclocker > Gustard X26 Pro DAC > Belles SA-100 power amp > Usher Dancer Be-20 speakers. AfterDark Giesemann master clock. PS Audio P3 & P10 regenerators.

https://theaudiostandard.net

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Thank’s for your answers . 
There is also a device that can be used to split the signal with two output . There is a minor attenuation of signal strength .

I was wondering if it is what you used and can give some feedback on sq . 
I will check with @martint

PCserver Supermicro X11SAA under Daphile  ,Jcat pcie net card ,Etherregen,e-red dock endpoint,powered by LPS 1.2 , SPS 500 , Sean Jacobs level 3 psu,  DAC Audiomat Maestro 3, Nagra Classic Amp , Hattor passive preamplifier , Martin Logan montis

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28 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

Hi Martin ,

 

Have you ever used a clock signal splitter to clock two devices with only one master clock .

 

If yes what were the results ? 
 

Since you have moved now to two separate clock what is the benefit over the splitter ?

 

This has been covered previously. See this post and elsewhere: 

 

iirc there was debate about adapters being any good at all ...

75 ohms vs 50 ohms ...

MartinT got stuck (contemplating an AD-recommended Cybershaft product?) and it seemed Clockmeister might have had a solution ...

Martin bought another clock anyway as he said above.

 

I didn't know whether Martin ever found a solution involving an adapter.

 

I know that both Martin and I vouch for AD clock(s) on both ER and Mutec.

 

If Martin's only satisfactory solution was a second clock, that may be your necessary avenue too.

 

edit: in my case no ER moat issue with Triple. In Martin's system 2 clocks better wrt moat anyway. iirc.

My digital system is wired ethernet (RedNet/Dante) but strictly offline. I don't download or stream music from the internet.

System here

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9 hours ago, Iving said:

 

This has been covered previously. See this post and elsewhere: 

 

iirc there was debate about adapters being any good at all ...

75 ohms vs 50 ohms ...

MartinT got stuck (contemplating an AD-recommended Cybershaft product?) and it seemed Clockmeister might have had a solution ...

Martin bought another clock anyway as he said above.

 

I didn't know whether Martin ever found a solution involving an adapter.

 

I know that both Martin and I vouch for AD clock(s) on both ER and Mutec.

 

If Martin's only satisfactory solution was a second clock, that may be your necessary avenue too.

 

edit: in my case no ER moat issue with Triple. In Martin's system 2 clocks better wrt moat anyway. iirc.

 

Hi! Lving,

 

We tested the adaptor, this is only for 10M Master Reference Clock at Imedance matching with 50ohms signals.

 

It is really important to match the Imedance for all connectors and cables. So we found the adpator can degrade the sounding if the 10M Master Clock signal is on 75ohms instead of 50ohms. We suggested MartinT not to use it. So his 2 clocks system is way better when there is the ER moat issue. 

 

Have a nice day. 

 

Best Regards,

Adrian

 

Amp: Goldmund 27+ EVO Preamp, Goldmund 29M Power Amp, Goldmund AC-Curator

DAC: Goldmund 21D Convertor Mono Block x 2 

Digital: Mutec MC3-USB,  AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO 10M Master Clock Giesemann EVA 

Playback: Goldmund PH3 Phono Amp, Linn LP12, Rovox PR99 MKII Open Reel

Digital Player: AfterDark. Rosanna Network Bridge x Roon Bridge OCXO Edition x JS-2

Dealer: SMSL, Gustard, Cybershaft, Pachanko Studio, UpTone Audio, Waversa, DELA

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On 5/31/2020 at 3:41 AM, Superdad said:

The CCHD-575 is one of the lowest phase-noise production XO available (about $10 each at 500 piece qty,), and our 3 original 25MHz (random production) samples came with plots showing 10Hz-offset phase-noise of -108, -110, and -112 dBc/Hz.

The manufacture specifies larger phase noise values for this oscillator.

 

216B04BD-F81E-4ABF-AE49-7DAA36149A73.thumb.jpeg.abe1b5da4c0184cedbcc8a2e75c1ed6c.jpeg

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Alright. My understanding of the moat idea is sketchy at best. Im thinking about buying a Mutec Clock. It has its own, internal LPS so it would be plugged into my power conditioner. Does the following sketch break the moat in the ER that is connected to my Nucleus and Linn DSM?

 

Red=power, Green=network/clock connections

 

Screen Shot 2021-07-29 at 9.59.02 PM.png

FRONT END: Analog: Radikal Linn LP12 > Linn Urika 2 phono stage. Sound: Linn Klimax Organik DSM > Linn Duo amp >Maggie 3.7i  Wires + Power: Transparent: Reference Speaker, XL Power Conditioner + XL Power Cords. Furutech NFC Rhodium outlet on 10 gauge dedicated circuit with isolated ground Isolation: HRS SXR stand, M3X2 Bases. 
 

Connected to back end by: Transparent Ethernet 

 

BACK END: Digital: Internet > OpticalModule > EtherREGEN < AD Queen Squarewave Clock < Roon Nucleus + (internal 7TB SSD music library) Isolation: Salamander Archetype rack, HRS M3X2 base the under Nucleus, ER,Stillpoints under all others Power: Paul Hynes SR7T > Clock, Nucleus. SR7T > ER & OpticalModule, SR4 > Switch. Furutech NFC Rhodium outlet on 10 gauge dedicated circuit with isolated ground 

 

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