Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[MartinT]

I ground my ER with one of these (with the spade option).

[MartinT]

6 hours ago, fsmithjack said:

What is this? Looks great! 

 

Black Ravioli grounding box. Was called Eflos, now known as Black Hole Signal Modules.

 

Shop - MCRU

[MartinT]

2 hours ago, MarkusBarkus said:

 

Turns out I like streaming and the server-side of digital a lot more than I thought I would. 
 

 

That's me two years ago.  I sold the SACD player, turntable and vinyl collection and reinvested in components dedicated to streaming.  Using the Qobuz hi-res service, sound quality is in another league compared with what I had before.

[MartinT]

Small steps first.  There are a lot of people yet to hear the benefits of good quality clocks and reclocking.  Far too many still quote the ignorant mantra "bits are bits" or "bit-perfect" as if that's all that is required, never mind jitter or phase noise or RFI/EMI in the datastream.

 

Over time, those of us with this attention to detail can help others to hear the difference (once lockdown is over), but I still get tremendous resistance on the forums and Facebook groups to the concept of better clocking making a difference.

 

Let's be thankful to Uptone for a truly inspiring product at a great price.  The variety of ways we are using it is wonderful - remember, there are many ways to skin a cat - and the common benefit is better musical appreciation.

[MartinT]

19 minutes ago, James Stephens said:

I started powering my BG7TBL with an LPS-1.2 a couple of days ago and oh boy did SQ take a jump in the right direction!

 

Nice one, James.  I found the same result, and then again when I upgraded my clock cables from Canare LV-61S to LV-77S.

[MartinT]

To answer @Tokyokyoto while adding to what @Clockmeister says...

 

Are they worth the time?  They are certainly worth the money.  Where else could you get any kind of 10MHz OCXO clock with the specifications required by mobile/cellphone towers for less than $100?

 

However, the more salient question is: do they improve upon the internal clocks of components such as the EtherREGEN and Mutec MC-3+ USB?  For these two specifically, the answer is a resounding 'yes'.  Give it a decent power supply, do some damping work on it, use decent clock cables and you have a bit of a giant killer with timing, soundstage width and depth and micro-detail that will shock you.

 

Can they be improved upon?  Of course!  However, it's going to cost you considerably more than $100 to do so.

[MartinT]

Decent, if not as good as the BG7TBL.  However, it would need listening to as the numbers don't tell the whole story.

 

The PCB does look to have a custom OCXO rather than a recycled one, but it's hard to be certain.  Nice external design and decent price.

[MartinT]

No, it's close to impossible to compare clocks on spec.

 

Maybe one day I'll go for a higher grade clock, but to be honest with my recent mods to both the Mutec reclocker (by Coherent) and the LKS DAC (done myself), the BG7TBL has not fallen behind in the slightest. Sound quality is quite superb.

[MartinT]

10 hours ago, Superdad said:

Sorry @MartinT.  But again, there is a great and cheap way to get better performance from them...

 

Hey, don't be sorry - no-one ever claimed the BG7TBL is the best clock ever!

 

Thanks to @JohnSwenson for the white paper. As I'm running sinewave into the ER (squarewave into the Mutec), I've ordered one of the Mini-Circuits for the ER to hear what it can do. I shall report back when I've received it.

[MartinT]

To continue discussion of cables for 10MHz clock use in the wrong thread (apologies @Superdad), my listening tests, as I have all four cables in the same length (30cm), are as follows:

• Canare LV-61S sets a baseline performance.  A little shut in with less soundstage depth and suppressed dynamics.
• Belden 1694A gives a slightly better performance but still not sufficiently vivid to be worth using.
• Canare LV-77S gives a considerably superior performance, vivid and engaging with great soundstaging and fine detail.
• Belden 4694R gives a performance very close to the 77S but very slightly brighter.  It has all the same good attributes.

Please note, these observations may not reflect use of the cables for S/PDIF!

[MartinT]

The BG7TBL improves sound quality over the internal clocks of ER and Mutec. In my system, it always has, regardless of subsequent opinion.

[MartinT]

2 hours ago, GMG said:

where would you say that an OCXO would make the most impact? Right before the DAC (with a reclocker for example) or up stream - at the ER or even further up at the music server (for example the new JCat network card that uses on board OCXO)

 

As close to your DAC as you can get it. In my case, the Mutec (fed by the OCXO) is just before the DAC, connected with a very short AES cable, and gives it the best possible signal to work with.

[MartinT]

I second @Clockmeister recommendation to own a good DVM - I have two, because sometimes I want to measure two things at once.  If they can read resistance and capacitance, all the better.

 

Sadly, my oscilloscope is old and only 20MHz bandwidth, so not good enough to see a 10MHz squarewave without distortion.

[MartinT]

Look what I've received...

 

[MartinT]

Since the filter was proposed by @JohnSwenson, I naturally put it in circuit to the EtherREGEN, feeding it cleaned sinewave and leaving the squarewave feeding the Mutec. There was a small improvement in low level clarity and soundstage atmosphere. Using Why Don’t You Try Me from Ry Cooder’s Borderline album, the opening is very low level with plucked acoustic guitar accompanied by a bass line. Superb for evaluating subtle changes. The filter sounded worth the £43 I had paid.

 

Then I thought about things some more, remembering that the Mutec is the last stage before my DAC and therefore ultra-critical of its clock input. So I swapped things around, feeding squarewave into the EtherREGEN (which Uptone have always recommended anyway), and the filtered sinewave into the Mutec. I had to swap one Canare LV-77S out for a Belden 4694R as the former was too short to accommodate the BLP, running between the BLP and Mutec.  I had found them almost identical in previous listening tests.

 

Bingo! Now things are less subtle and more obviously improved. More defined detail, better ambience, edges with real shape (like Tangerine Dream’s electronic drums), less sibilance (the Paul Simon test) and organically sounding music. I’ve never heard the LKS DAC sound so good, testimony to the ultra-pure reclocked signal reaching it. All this using an inexpensive Chinese master clock!  The system sounds at once more detailed and textured, yet calmer in presentation. No, I can’t explain it either. I’m very happy, though.

 

I'm going to get another filter to use with the EtherREGEN, using my two sinewave outputs and ditching the squarewave output.  Practical listening trumps theory!

[MartinT]

28 minutes ago, MasterWarzombie said:

 

The differences can only be subtle or minimal with each addition

 

I can only speak for myself, but the addition of the Mini-Circuits filter to sinewave clock into my Mutec was not subtle. It's the biggest jump in sound quality of any tweaks I have done in the last few months.

 

I have another one arriving soon. It will feed the ER. I guess the effect will be smaller but, even so, any uplift now will be just icing on the cake. I'm a terrible poet, anyway!

[MartinT]

5 hours ago, Rasputin said:

Hi Martin, where have you purcahsed this one? seems non-catalog item at minicircuits

 

I bought the first one from AliExpress.

 

I have another coming from Mini-Circuits UK.

[MartinT]

I received my second Mini-Circuits BLP-10.7-75+ just earlier today. It's now in circuit from clock to EtherREGEN. Both reclockers are fed from 10MHz sinewave outputs via Belden 4694R cables into the 11MHz filters.

 

I wondered if a second one could possibly be audible but it is. With both filters in place, the sound is incredibly delicate when it comes to tiny details. Cymbal strikes, shimmer and decay are to die for. Complex mixed vocals can be better picked out. Percussion strikes are startling.  The sense of timing is very tight with great boogie factor.  The whole presentation flows very naturally.

[MartinT]

IMPORTANT INFORMATION FROM MINI-CIRCUITS UK

 

I have received a plea from a very nice lady at Mini-Circuits UK to reiterate on this forum the correct parts to order.  They have received several returns from people who have ordered the incorrect item and are now returning them.

 

BLP-10.7+ (11MHz 50Ω) is a catalogue item - please order from the website here: Mini-Circuits

BLP-10.7-75+ (11MHz 75Ω) is a non-catalogue item - please contact [email protected] who will be able to help you

 

May I just add that I have had excellent service from Mini-Circuits, who handled my order perfectly from ordering, through confirmation, delivery schedule and right up to delivery.  I wish more companies were like them!

[MartinT]

Listening late last night, there is a new sense of lowered noise floor, quieter backgrounds, and music coming from darkness. Cliche it may sound, but this is what happens when you make any changes to the master clock arrangements. The worst thing you can do is turn the clock off. However, just putting in the Mini-Cicuits filters disturbed things, and of course, they had to burn in. Also, the Belden 4694R clock cables which I had hardly used previously as I had been using the Canare LV-77S which are slightly shorter.

So leaving it to 'cook' for a few days has improved things again. The good thing about a clock running constantly is that the cables and filters burn-in without needing any music to be playing.

[MartinT]

26 minutes ago, Mouna said:

I have another switch from PPang with a 25MHZ clock - thought about using a minicircuit with that one too - is that  doing any harm or will it give benefits also though 25MHZ - any idea - shouldn't harm the switch since only a filter....

 

 

You wouldn't be able to use the same BLP-10.7 filter on 25MHz - remember it's an 11MHz filter so the clock would be filtered down to unusable.

 

You could look through Mini-Circuits' catalogue to find a 26MHz filter.

[MartinT]

No I haven't, as I have two Minis and two reclockers (ER and Mutec).  In this configuration, using two sinewave outputs, it sounds really excellent.

[MartinT]

Both my Canare LV-77S and Belden 4694R took a little while to burn in. Both are available terminated by a few vendors on eBay.

[MartinT]

Interesting experiments. In anticipation of my new AfterDark clock arriving, and knowing that the Mini-Circuits splitter will arrive later, I thought I'd check what might happen if I revert the ER to its internal clock and run just the Mutec from the BG7TBL clock.  It would seem that the benefit of running from the external clock is cancelled by breaking the moat (which my setup was doing).

 

So internal clock plus preserved moat sounds approximately the same. Promising.

 

Next, with just a single clock cable, I thought I'd nail down which of the two cables I prefer. For some reason, it's easier to hear the differences now. I definitely prefer Belden 4694R over Canare LV-77S.

 

All good, and I'm just waiting for the AfterDark to arrive. I've ordered a King which is about -9dB quieter than the BG7TBL on phase noise and I'll report on what I hear. No point going straight for the Eva until I know what this step will provide. Always leave something else to look forward to!

[MartinT]

That tells me there is very little correlation between waveform shape and sound quality.

 

I suspect the performance differences may be more due to the shielding from EMI/RFI, which the 'scope view won't tell us.